Lostwatch: We Gotta Get the Band Back Together

Its 1am and I am inexplicably doing work right now, so a big Thank You to James for posting this so soon, nice to have a distraction at this time of the night...er morning. Too fried to add much beyond my favorite one-liner of the night..."Hey Kenny Rogers!"

Let's get my small quibble out of the way first. Why did Walt, Kate, and Hurley refer to Locke as Jeremy Lantham during their personal conversations. Yes, it was his alias but why would they use that name so naturally when they knew it was a fake. The obvious reason being, to keep the true identity to the end of the episode. I hope the writers come up with a better reason than that.

Charles didn't get any reports because Michael damaged the freighter's communication systems. I thought the reason they had to lie was pretty straight forward when Locke explained in to Jack--protect the island from the rest of the world, specifically Widmore. Honestly, I never understood why so many fans were concerned on why they were lying. The answer has been in front of us all year. Even though the Oceanic 6 are off the island, their lives are still at risk. If they don't know anything important, than Widmore will most likely leave them alone.

@James-Also we still do not know who faked the 815 crash site. It still could have been Ben to make Charles think that it didn't crash any where near the Island.

I thought it was a great finale. Sure we knew that the Oceanic 6 were going to get rescued. But I didn't know what was going to happen to Desmond and the rest of my favorite characters. My mind was kind of blown when Ben walked into the arctic and turned a wheel. I think the writers were making a statement in that scene that this show is based more on the supernatural/spiritual than some psudo-science.

As for who is really dead or not. I have never felt that Lost tries to trick us in who is dead or alive. Seriously, compared to Heroes, the characters of Lost stay dead a lot often. The producers have always said that Christian is dead and I believe them. And every character that we are led to believe is dead is always dead with the exception of Mikhail (who died a couple of episodes later.) With that said, with the way the scene was presented, I believe Jin is dead. I actually felt bad for Sun when Desmond was reunited with Penny.

Now for a theory. After the island is moved, Locke is in control but proves, once again, that he is an inadequate leader. Richard finally gets tired of serving under someone else and somehow gets rid of Locke. What I am basically trying to get at is that Richard Alpert has his own agenda and will eventually be the villian of this story. And I think his agenda ties into the lives of Matthew Abadon, Charlotte, and Faraday.

I have no idea what that link is other than it involves an anomoly of time and space.

Wow. That was a longer than usual post. It's 1:36 now and I am still wide awake thinking about the finale. Oh well, I'll catch up on sleep tomorrow night.

I also liked the finale. Nothing like Through the Looking Glass, but like James said, you just can't invent more magical things - I don't know what to expect from the S5 finale, but S3 was the perfect time to pull it off like they did.

My friends and I were discussing the radical possibility of not even seeing the Island in the present in season 5. It'd be very, very ballsy of the showcrafters, but it's not like there's any shortage of things we can follow - O6/Widmore/Ben chessmatch, Locke real-world flashes, Des/Pen, even Frank and Daniel.

Speaking of Daniel, I think they want us to assume he's dead. Let us conveniently forget about him till midway through Season Six, and BAM... there are plenty of places I think they can go with him.

I don't think Jin's dead. They needed it to be powerful, and Sun needs a reason to hate Jack and blame him for not going back for Jin. But that will only make the reunion that much more special.

Will Sun and Jin's baby have to come back as part of the package deal? More importantly: will the package deal allow Ben back on the Island? It seemed very final that Ben would never go back, but I suppose that doesn't keep him from trying. Is Widmore the last guy to move the Island? Move it to save it, then exiled from it forever, no matter how rich and powerful he gets trying to find it?

Is Ben bluffing to Jack on the package deal? If Ben can't get back to the Island, how does he represent the Island in mainland negotiations?

We knew that it was a while between the Island "now" we've been watching and the Bearded Jack future, but actually saying it's been 3 years... look at everything that happened in 100 days. What crazy things are gonig to happen in 3 years? And are we really to believe that the Island is that pissed off at the O6 for leaving that Locke has to come after them?

Ok, I'm going to stop and try to sleep. I'm probably going to read this in the morning and laugh at all my rambling. I just hope all my sentences were complete :)

Why did Walt tell Hurley that Jeremy Bentham is angry that the O6 are lying about what happened after the plane crash. John Locke was the one who told Jack to lie. And Lock is Bentham. Someone explain. I'm so confused. And how much does Walt's grandmother know. Does Penny know that this is all the work of her father? I don't know if I can wait for all these answers.

What I kept thinking towards the screen is why didn't locke put the heart rate monitor on himself?

I know: Because the ship wouldn't blow up.

@nickelking: Never even occurred to me. If I'm ever in a showdown with a mercenary wearing a dead-man switch, I want you on my side.

Does that heart monitor suggestion even make sense? If Locke takes it off Keamy the red light will turn on in the time it takes him to make the switch. If I am wrong about that somebody let me know?

One more thing. The "Frozen Donkey Wheel" wasn't revealing Locke to be in the coffin. Damon Lindelof said that the "Fronzen Donkey Wheel" occured when their would be 15 minutes left in the episode. So I am guessing it was when Ben turned the frozen wheel. Makes sense to me.

As for Locke being upset about the lie. Maybe he didn't like the lie Jack and them told. Or maybe he made a MISTAKE (According to Jack he did). This is John Locke after all.

Some questions that I have: 1. I'm not sure what to make of Kate's line to Jack, in the episode where Kate gets out of jail, about Jack not agreeing with things she'd done to get/keep Aaron (or words to that effect).

I can't say that I saw anything that seemed despicable.

2. I'm also not sure about Kate's line about all the horrible things they'd done the day they got off the island. Did she mean ambushing the mercs and leaving Jin behind?

I doubt she cared about the Mercs and in regards Jin, really, was there anything ELSE they could have done?

3. As to going back, I wonder if this means EVERYONE who's off the island, because that includes Walt (good to see him, and the 3 year lapse allows him to have grown and perhaps open the door for him in Season 5), Desmond and Lapidus.

I REALLY hope it doesn't include Aaron. A toddler has no reason to be going back to that island (and it's pretty clear that Kate loves that little boy).

4. There was a phrase Sun said to Widmore that confused me. She seemed to say something along the lines that we're not the only ones off the island, but it wasn't clear to me if she meant we the 06 or we the 06 + Widmore.

5. I may have missed something in the dialogue, but it seemed to me that Jack told Des not to let on that he'd been found. Is anybody clear on whether Jack (and by extension, the rest of the group) knows that it's Penny's father that was coming after them (I sort of think that Ben may have said so at some point).

Because if that's the case, it's going to be mighty complicated keeping Des' existence secret.... (does Widmore even know that Des was on the island?).

6. What was the point of putting all that metal into that capsule? That wasn't what move the island (unless somehow that creates the conditions to move the island....).

Nobody's mentioned it, but Juliet looked beautiful in the finale, and I was very moved by the look of shock (with a pinch of despair) in her eyes when she was looking at the burning ship (right when Sawyer was coming out of the water).

Anybody else notice that Ben looked odd in that final scene with Jack? Like he was younger? his hair and face looked different.

@ Nickleking: I and the four other people I was in the room with asked the EXACT. SAME. THING. Although, if I was Locke, I probably would have penned it to Ben because I'm pretty sure he's got the life-expectancy of a tortoise.

I loved the finale, but I think it may have been better watching it in a group, it had several really good group-watch moments. When Sawyer jumped we all spent about a minute going, "YOU BETTER NOT DIE!" When the boat blew up with Jin on it: "NOOOOOOOO!", When it looked like Desmond was going to die: "Seriously guys! If he dies I will never watch this show again!" and When Penny showed up on the boat everyone in the room cheered. Lots of great moments. As you said, not mind-blowing, but sometimes it's nice to have a simple plot progression. Plus, the fans of Lost are smart folks (Not to toot our own horn or anything...) if the writers tried to write the show so that the fans were always shocked and never guessed right, the show would be a confusing mess with no resolution.

What I'm interested in knowing is how Sun and Sayid are going to reconcile and go back to the Island. Sayid has obviously allied himself with Ben and is taking Hurley to a "Safe Place" that is probably the veterinary clinic we saw in 'The Economist'. By the reverse token, "We have common interests" Sun could have heard from "Jeremy Bentham" about Ben's fit of rage that "killed" her husband which would explain her alliance with Widmore. So the question is, Is the other person that Sun blames Ben or Jack?

I liked the Island move, but I could have done without the cheesy effects on the turning wheel. Part of the beauty of LOST has been that it makes it's Sci-fi time travel plot very natural and earthy. Fie on your golden time sparkle dust! Take back the transporter, Star Trek!

Let's talk Hurley for a second: He says he's talking to dead people, but in the first episode of this season, Someone else saw Charlie! Why? I still don't get it. did the other patent have some kind of wacky sixth-send capability? *head asplode*

This is the first time I have actually *liked* Miles in an episode. Let's hope he stops feeling like dead weight.

I think that next season will start with Ben, Jack, Sayid and Hurley gettin' the band back together. (and will end with all of them playing Jail House Rock...) The main story line will have jumped ahead 3 years, and all of those previous flash forwards will now be *flash backs*

I hope Season 5 doesn't turn into Weekend at Bernie's, what with Jack lugging Locke's corpse around.

Wow. I don't even know where to start. I totally dug the finale, it was awesome. Yeah, we basically knew where they would end up, but not how they would end up there - and its the journey, not the destination, that makes this show rock so much.

When they first started saying Jeremy Bentham was the dude in the coffin, my very first thought was "that dead body is gonna be really important" cause wasn't Bentham the dude who founded the school and then made them take his mummified body, or mummified head, or something, to preside over all board meetings? My second thought was that it was Ben, because "Ben"tham, but then figured that was too obvious. I had thought maybe Locke because of the other political thinker's name, but I couldn't imagine him not being on the island.

So first thing: It is totally obvious (meaning that it quite possibly won't happen at all) that they're taking Locke back to the island to be reborn. Which of course makes me think of Flight 815 bringing Jack's dad to the island in a coffin where HE appeared to experience a rebirth of SOME sort - empty coffin, folks see him wandering, he sends a friendly dog on a mission, he's still wandering around saying cryptic things. So this really makes me take a step back and re-look at the whole involvement of Christian Shepherd, father of not one but TWO Losties, in the first place:
1. When 815 crashed, was the island trying to get back Christian Shepherd?
2. Had Christian ever been to the island before? If not, what exactly is his connection with the island?
3. Did Christian have any foreknowledge of anything that would happen, which would have affected how he tried to raise Jack? All his trying to keep Jack from being a leader, a hero, was there any way that he was trying to prepare Jack to play his role (and failed miserably, cause Jack never has given up his savior complex or control freakiness).

Let's see, what else. OK, this is getting long, I'll post this and start another.

@JRVJ, I think Sun meant it was O6 + Ben

I really liked this episode. Very different from last year, but much of that was by necessity. Those of you pointing out Locke moving the heart rate monitor, would that even be possible? As Chris Kw said, once it goes red, it's done. It makes more sense for Locke to try and keep Keamy alive than to remove the heart monitor and then attempt to find a way to rig it up to himself all in the span of seconds.

If anyone is curious to read more expanded thoughts on the finale from me, you can check it out at http://seannyd.blogspot.com .

@Gerry: Weekend at Johnny's is exactly what I want to see next year. Ben and Jack carrying John around with sunglasses. I'd watch it.

I don't have time for filler between my thoughts:

1) I watched the repeated Part 1 with the extended press conference: What I want to know is, why Boone, Libby and Charlie?

2) When Ben moved the island, the sky filled with white light. That reminded me of the purple light when Desmond shut down the Swan 2 seasons ago.

3) I'm surprised Sawyer isn't dead yet; nearly every major character who has died (and I'm writing "nearly" just to cover my bases) does so after s/he is redeemed. And ever since that episode in season 3 where Hurley tricks him into being a leader, Sawyer, I think, has become a "good person" as the Others might say. Granted, he's still rough around the edges, but in my mind at least, it begs the question.

4) I always disliked the strike, but now I hate it (at least I think I do). Without more Freighter Four backstory, I felt nothing when Miles & Charlotte decided to stay. That came totally out of left field (granted, with Lost, that's part of the game).

5) I hope Michael's not dead. It would suck to have his much-vaunted return last 4 episodes. Plus, if he's dead, Jin probably is too...

6) My guess for the future of the show: Just as season 3 ended with us seeing where season 4 would lead, season 4 now ends with us seeing where season 5 will lead. In other words, we start out seeing more 2005-2008 episodes from the 06's lives (because there truly are more gaps than not) interspersed with cuts to the island.

On to Sawyer. I so love Hero Sawyer. I've been rewatching season 1 and its amazing how much his character has changed, and how believable and gradual the whole thing has been. I loved when Hurley thanked him for saving his life, and Sawyer just ducked his head and said "You got it." At exactly 9:42 Mr. Shara Says and I looked at each other and said basically in unison: "Oh sh*t, Sawyer isn't going to make it". Then as soon as the plane started leaking, we both knew he was gonna sacrifice himself to save Hurley and Kate and Aaron and Sun (Jack was a lucky beneficiary). And then when he popped back up and started swimming, we jumped and cheered. Please gods, please don't let us go too horribly long without seeing the Islanders.

Re: Claire - How freaking creepy was Claire in the bedroom? So that re-brings up some questions:
1. Are the apparitions of dead people actually manifestations of the dead people, or are they manifestations of the island itself, or are they some combination of the two?
2. If Claire is a manifestation of Claire herself, then her admonition to Kate makes more sense, because she wouldn't want her son to be taken back into danger. If Claire is a manifestation of the island than WTF??? Because on the one hand you have folks saying that the island wants them all to come back, that they weren't supposed to have left, and her saying don't you dare bring Aaron back. So that was one of the Big Questions for us at my house.

And how awesome was the scene where John watched the video and became increasingly concerned as Ben deliberately filled the vault with metal objects?

I loved the jailbreak with Sayid and Hurley. The scene with Sawyer jumping from the plane put me in mind of Hurley's trauma on the bridge, and his guilt at it collapsing and hurting somebody, and that sending him to the mental hospital in the first place, so I wonder how much guilt his character was carrying around about the weight on the helicopter, and how much that figured in to his disintegration.

Still not done. . .

It seems to me that deaths on Lost are final when we see someone die. I think Jin's death (or Faraday's or insert anyone else in there)is like Desmond after the hatch exploded. We thought he might be dead until we saw him running naked through the jungle. I fully expect Jin, Sun, and Ji Yeon to be reunited ala Des & Penny.

On to Sun - I love her future badass self. But my big questions there are:
1. Who exactly does she blame for what happened to Jin? Does she blame Jack for not going back to get him, or does she blame Widmore for the whole freaking mess? WHich leads to the followup question:
2. Does she actually want to help Widmore? Or is she just leading him into a trap where she can either exploit his knowledge to return to the island or deliver some serious revenge?
3. WTF did she mean by "you know we're not the only ones who left he island"? I mean, the only other ones who got off were Desmond and maybe the helicopter pilot - I just realized I can't remember if the pilot made it or not. So was she indicating that she would sell Desmond out? Again, is this a trap?

Awesomeness.

Ahh, or she could have meant Ben - just saw Matt's comment up there.

I appreciate you mentioning how Lost now seems to have a plan, which is why it couldn't possibly end season 4 as dramatically as season 3.

My two cents:

1) Faraday MUST be alive in some context. There is the entire plot about "If something goes wrong, Desmond Hume is my constant" that has been left untouched.

2) Referring to himself as Jeremy Bentham, I was very impressed that I did not notice how Jeremy Bentham was a western philosopher in the Enlightenment just like John Locke was, nice alias buddy. The philosopher names hav come up a lot on lost: Rousseau, Hume, Kelvin (was he the guy in the hatch before?), and I'm still led to believe Sayid represents Boris Said.

3) Why is it that Sun is working with Widmore while it seems the rest will team up with Ben?

4) I'm sure three years have not passed on the island. There wiull be some weird time-travelling explanation about taking a wrong baring there and only gave a few months pass. Time/Space travel could justify how Christian got to the boat, potentially saving Jin and Michael whose stories don't feel complete yet.

5) "Kenny Rogers" is arguably the best Sawyer name yet.

Also, mad props to the folks (whoever, wherever they are) who totally sussed out way back that Charlotte had been to the island before - I remember back when there was the episode of the freighter 4 arriving and she was splashing in the water, some folks on various discussion boards and blogs were looking at her name, at the Narnia chronicles, and her behavior and saying that they thought it was like she was returning, like she had been there before. So good call!

I was kind of underwhelmed. Like you said, from the future bits, we knew 80% of what had to happen in this episode (and heck, my prediction was pretty much dead on for the first hour+, until the Island teleported). And keeping with my complaints about the rest of the season, the show only moved us what, one hour ahead in the total storyline of the show? And the big mystery of the night, who is Jeremy Bentham, is answered in the same episode? That's not a mystery, that's a dramatic pause.

Anything, some random comments:

Locke's replacement name was Jeremy Bentham, one of the big philosophers behind Utilitarianism, summarized by "The Greatest Good for the Greatest Number". Which makes the "terrible things that happened since we left" so interesting - was King Locke the one who did the terrible things, in trying to keep order / fight off someone? Heck, we discussed a year ago that if Naomi's boat was bad people (check) then Locke killing her wasn't even a bad thing (check). He's already living up to his name.

Is anyone else ticked off at the show's portrayal of women? Let me get this straight:
Jack said Sun blames him for Jin. So out of the two people she blames for his death, she blames the guy who didn't waste fuel flying around trying to find one guy (out of dozens) caught in a major blast, not the man who ordered the whole operation in the first place (or the guy who planted the bomb, or the guy who triggered the bomb, though who knows if she was ever told that part by future Locke)? Sigh.
Kate doesn't care whether Locke is alive or dead, because what, he brought up bad memories? He kicked her out of Othersville so she didn't get killed like the redshirts? He was right about the freighter all along? Sigh.

Juliet and Rose are the only women I still like.

Speaking of which: I guess Expose was important in the long run: it was the last time the show even pretended that the redshirts matter.

I still don't get why people are confused about the coverup lie. Admitting the truth just gets additional people looking for the Island, which has proven hazardous for the people there so far.

One thing that bugged me though, thinking about the season: Jack's appendicitis nonsense served no purpose. All it did in retrospect is get Jin and Charlotte together long enough to tell us Charlotte knows Korean, and surely that could have been done in a different matter.
What it does suggest is that Rose was right: that Jack got appendicitis because he tried to leave. But check the supernatural events we saw this season:

Jack gets appendicitis when he tries to leave (they should stay).
Ghost Libby tries to stop Michael from blowing up the boat (allowing them to go). Note this also goes against the interest of The Others.
Ghost Christian tells Michael his mission is complete (whether that means he can now try to escape or can now die, I'm not convinced) only once, what, Aaron gets on the chopper? (they should go).
Ghost Claire tells Kate not to bring him back (they should stay gone). But is the him Locke or Aaron?

Now, I've long been a proponent that there are two groups behind the scenes (The Whisperers & Ms Hawking's people) adjusting things in the background. But I'm interested in seeing what the one faction "ghosts and Whisperers are just a living Island" have to say about the above.

Especially since our history suggests that the last time a dead body was brought to the Island (Christian), it got hijacked for use by someone else. Who's going to be using Locke? Especially since the above suggests that "Christian" doesn't want the competition?

As far as the future of the show, I am going to be even more daring: There are two "presents", Island time and O6 time, and we will get flashbacks from people in both presents.

And Desmond and Penny! I knew as soon as they were stranded in the water that Is Penny's Boat was on the way. Mr. Shara Says didn't believe me. Before this episode, I hadn't expected the reunion to happen till much later, but once the pieces were in place that one was pretty obvious. I loved them yachting off into the sunset together.

Also, it was good to finally see how the lie was constructed, and why. I had assumed that there was a big complicated corporate coverup and that they had made deals with devils to get off the island or something. But they came up with it themselves (er, Jack did), they totally laid out their own coverup. That makes me more surprised that Kate's coverstory about the pregnancy/birth went (apparantly) unchallenged, if there weren't higher-up forces protecting the cover.

Last question for now - when Abbadon is going around all "are there any other survivors", would he be talking about 1) Ben, 2) The Losties, 3) The Others, or 4) The Freighter Folk? There's clearly more to Daniel and Charlotte than we know, so would there be a contingent of folks seeking to recover them, specifically? (And anyone else think they might wind up being Adam and Eve?)

@shara: Re the Sun/Widmore conversation. You missed the point of that. That was Sun saying "Play ball, or else I'll tell Ben where your daughter is so he can kill her".

I.e. future Sun is willing to use the life of the person that saved her from dehydrating to death in the middle of the ocean to get what she wants. And I thought she was vicious in Shiri.

@Tom Shaw - a couple thoughts:

"Jack said Sun blames him for Jin. So out of the two people she blames for his death, she blames the guy who didn't waste fuel flying around trying to find one guy (out of dozens) caught in a major blast, not the man who ordered the whole operation in the first place"

I am still hoping that Sun has better judgment than that. If she really is as smart and badass as I think she is, then she is acting like she blames Jack to get closer to Widmore, so she can, as Mr. Shara Says predicted, "bring down the fires of hell upon him".

"Kate doesn't care whether Locke is alive or dead, because what, he brought up bad memories? He kicked her out of Othersville so she didn't get killed like the redshirts? He was right about the freighter all along? Sigh."

Yeah, that seemed weird to me too. Help me remember, was there any indication that Locke had come to see her too? Like there was talk about Locke (Bentham) visiting some others? Becuase if he had come to see her and started in on her about her and Aaron returning to the island, I could see how she could have had a really negative reaction to that, which would add to the believability of her behavior.

"Now, I've long been a proponent that there are two groups behind the scenes (The Whisperers & Ms Hawking's people) adjusting things in the background."

Interesting, would two different behind-the-scenes groups help account for the difference between "The island wants everyone to return together" and the Claire apparition's "Don't you dare take him back" approaches?

@Tom Shaw - oooohhhh. whoa! Yeah, I hadn't caught that dynamic, but I was sure there was more to it than it seemed. Nice.

@Chris Kw: "Why did Walt, Kate, and Hurley refer to Locke as Jeremy Lantham during their personal conversations. Yes, it was his alias but why would they use that name so naturally when they knew it was a fake."

I'd say that they know they're being watched, they know that there are powerful people keeping an eye on them, waiting to catch information. Locke was a passenger on the plane, I'd say they just don't want to risk anyone overhearing that "Locke" was still alive, because it endangers them, their cover story, and the survivors on the island.

@James: "Significance of Charlotte (apparently) having been born on the Island? I've read the speculation that she's Annie, Ben's childhood sweetheart, but she seems clearly too young, unless there's some Alpertification going on."

Could she be Annie's daughter? Like, Annie and Ben's daughter, together? Which would mean that Annie would have either had to have been born on the island (therefore Either being a miracle baby or possibly being born before the no-baby-having problems started, I can't remember if we know whether there have ALWAYS been the baby problems on the island?), or Annie would have had to have left the island early in her pregnancy, possibly returning with the baby later? Then when he's separated from his own kid, he compensates by "saving" the baby of the crazy murderous french lady to raise. Probably not, just a thought.

@ Gerry: The only thing that possibly makes sense to me is if Locke is cremated... that would be the easiest way to get him back to the Island. How that works with the whole ressurection theme, I don't know.

@ Shara says:

1. Who exactly does she blame for what happened to Jin? Does she blame Jack for not going back to get him, or does she blame Widmore for the whole freaking mess?

She blames Ben. She knows he killed Keamy because John (or "Jeremiah") told her.
WHich leads to the followup question:
2. Does she actually want to help Widmore? Or is she just leading him into a trap where she can either exploit his knowledge to return to the island or deliver some serious revenge?

Serious revenge. How better to get back at Ben than to team up with his Arch-rival and stick it to Dad in the process?

3. WTF did she mean by "you know we're not the only ones who left he island"? I mean, the only other ones who got off were Desmond and maybe the helicopter pilot - I just realized I can't remember if the pilot made it or not. So was she indicating that she would sell Desmond out? Again, is this a trap?

She's *deffinitely* planning to sell Desmond out. Sun comes from a family tradition of selling people out to get what they want -- we saw how the island had a redemptive affect on people, what we've seen in the flashbacks is that being *away* from the island has cost all of them their Redemption. Except, so far, Kate -- but I think that when we find out what is so disturbing to Jack that he can't be around Kate and the Baby, we might find that she has lost hers too.

responses as i'm reading:
@Matt&JRVR- i think Sun meant Ben AND Desmond, i'm mean she was talking WIDMORE after all...
@Ashley- i thought the same thing about Faraday's pink ray of time travel, also Miles rules, he's getting ready to over take Sawyer in the sarcasm dept.
@shara- wasn't Claire's appearence in a dream? Didn't Kate wake up? That makes me think its a bit of the island left behind in people's minds (though that still doesn't explain how the mental patient saw Charlie [unless you want to go the Quantum Leap route and say the apperitions can be seen by children, dogs, and the mentally handicapped)
@Tom-I thought Kate didn't care about Locke because she regarded him as a crazy murderer who recently showed up at her house spouting nonsense (you know, in her opinoin). I still think that the whole apendicitis thing was to contrast him to Locke, how he was becoming the anti-locke.

@ Tom Shaw

Kate doesn't care whether Locke is alive or dead, because what, he brought up bad memories? He kicked her out of Othersville so she didn't get killed like the redshirts? He was right about the freighter all along? Sigh.

It was implied that Locke also met with Kate after he returned from the Island. "You believed him?" "Yes." "Well, I don't." I would say that this, more than anything else alientated Kate. I would also guess that she has become slightly delusional in believing that Aaron really IS her son, and that Locke told her that Aaron needs to return to the Island. OR that she needs to return to the Island without Aaron.

Also, Locke is really interesting, and the Philosopher he chooses as his alais is interesting because he truely did choose to "Live Together, Die Alone."

I don't think there's any chance that Charlotte is related to Annie. Have we forgotten Season 3 already? Ben is still infatuated with her to the point that he dressed up Kate like her (that this totally conflicts with the storyline of Juliet's S4 episode is a complaint I have already made), and spends his birthday thinking about her and the present he got from her - I am pretty sure Ben would recognize her.

Personally, I am going to go with Charlotte being related to Widmore, for more than just the British accents. Charlotte could be Widmore's (other) daughter, or a niece or something, whose father's/mother's/etc.'s death in The Purge is the reason why he holds such a blood feud vs. Ben specifically. Charlotte's 5 year old memories of polar bears at the zoo (the S3 prison) are why she knew to look for their collars.

One thing I just thought of: can't we conclusively state that Ben didn't move The Island after the Purge? Think about it: Ben had to blow up part of The Orchid to access it. So therefore The Orchid was built after the Donkey Wheel was last used.

So therefore The Island is still right where it was after the Purge (the supply drops and sub service also support this). So why hasn't Dharma come back?

@Carlos - yes, the Claire appearance was in a dream, but it still seemed like an intentional appearance by some entity. Are you saying that the fact the appearance happened in a dream makes it more likely that the island was behind it (with its residual mental connection) than that Claire herself was behind it? Cause that does kinda make sense.

Best part:
Getting to see both of our (me and my husband) families this month the past couple of weekend.

Worst part:
Ending the month with this nasty cold!

Oops wrong web site. Darn it.

@Shara yup that's what i was sayin'. And that can be reasonably well applied to the rest of the O6 as well, but like i say it all falls down with that mental patient point charlie out to hurley, unless said patient was also in hurley's mind, but hell you could go down that road forever...
My big dissapointment this season: not nearly enough Abadonn, Lance Reddick rules, damn you strike!

Additional thoughts as I have them.

When the Island was moved, not just the large crash-site island went, BOTH Islands were moved, meaning that at some point, or somewhere underwater the Islands are actually connected.

@Tom - I like the idea that Charlotte is related to Widmore, that would be a very cool development. Although I still see a possibility that she could be Ben's daughter - he obviously did recognize her in that he knew her name, her education, stuff about her life. Whether that would be from a personal interest predating the arrival of the Freighter Folk or just due diligence in checking into the capture team wasn't necessarily clear (or I could be totally forgetting important things, always possible). He might know she is his biodaughter but have reasons of his own for not revealing it. Not saying its particularly likely, just that I can see it being possible.

@Ashley, thats an interesting thought and probably right since the door map seemed to indicate that there were tunnels running under the island (are these a different type of tunnle from the one Ben crawled through?) but i was thinking that anything inside the bubble (force field? electromagnetic space time disturbance?) was transported with the island, hence Faraday and the red shirts disappearing, so even if they weren't connected it might have gone with. Is this the general thinking? Or are some thinking maybe the zode just got swamped?

Here's something that's been nagging at me, unless I'm misremembering: why did "Bentham" dying trigger Sayid coming to rescue Hurley? What was Locke doing while alive that protected the O6 (or just H.)?

OK, and now I'm going to throw this out there without having done full research into Lostpedia and my memory, but we still don't know what the Arrow station did, right? Well, we had time travel... why not cloning? What if Jeremy Bentham was Locke's clone?

I don't know what I would think about that, I'm just throwing the idea out there. If you had asked me last season if time travel would have been jumping the shark, I would have said yes, so I have faith the writers could definitely make cloning work if they wanted to.

Side note: it was so awesome how they continued with the episode right out of the "previously on Lost" segment! And I was SO satisfied to discover how long it took for Jack to hit rock bottom.

My thoughts:

- Boone, Libby, and Charlie were chosen as the other three survivors b/c they really died on the island and the O6 knew them well before they died.

- Once Locke's body returns to the island it will be reanimated a la Christian and he will become Jacob. Hence, the reason for them not showing us Jacob's face.

- When in time does the island end up? I'm guessing 10 months prior to what's happening now in a different location. Why? Because Ben ended up 10 months into the future in a different location.

- I like the idea that Michael and Jin are alive similar to Locke, Desmond, and Eko living through the Hatch explosion. Michael sacrificed himself as did Desmond. I think them being alive will finally give us the answer to how the other three survived the Hatch explosion.

- Sun's sly smile as she walked away from Widmore means she is setting him up. She blames him for having all that explosive on his freighter.

- Faraday and the red shirts will have transported with the island but in the process will enter through a different bearing and experience time travel-itis. Faraday will have his constant and need to find Desmond in the past or future while all the redshirts die.

- Finally, who has to go back to complete the mission? My possibilities:

Jack, Kate, Aaron, Sun, Hurley, Sayid, Walt, Desmond, Lapidus, Ben, Locke's body.

I'm guessing the island won't really need Aaron so he's out while everyone else returns. So, how do you get a 9 person + dead body group back to the island? I have no idea but it will be fun to watch.

@Tom: "One thing I just thought of: can't we conclusively state that Ben didn't move The Island after the Purge? Think about it: Ben had to blow up part of The Orchid to access it. So therefore The Orchid was built after the Donkey Wheel was last used."

I think we can conclusively state that Ben didn't move The Island after the Purge simply because he was still physically on the island after the Purge, rather than in banishment.

So Ben didn't move the island, and by your excellent logic nobody else did either, at least after the Purge. So, as you ask, why the heck hasn't Dharma come back?

Possibilities:
Dharma's not there: Maybe the on-island Purge happened concurrent to an off-island purge - we know that folks can come and go from the island, so it would make sense that if they were serious about doing a Purge, they would go all out. Or, in the absence of an actual off-island massacre, we've got at least a couple of suspicious, wealthy businessman who could have worked to co-opt the island and Dharma's facilities to exploit for their own gain. Plus, I'm not entirely clear what Mittelos Bioscience is, but Alpert was with them so they're likely controlled by The Others/The Former Hostiles, who were also behind the On-Island Purge. Could there have been some sort of takeover of the Dharma Initiative group concurrant to the Purge, with new folks in control of their off-Island resources?

I'm wondering if there is any chance that Widmore moved the island (and suffered banishment) at some point himself. Maybe his control of the island pre-dated Dharma's discovery of the island. But, as Tom pointed out, based on the condition of the vault it doesn't look like such a thing has happened recently. So what gives?

My tentative hypothesis is that Widmore moved the island before Dharma found it. Dharma, as we've seen before, had found ways to alter the various strange forms of electromagnetism and whatnot on the island - the vault was one of these ways they were trying to regulate/harness/control it for their own purposes (having to regularly input the numbers or everythign goes haywire being a prime example). So maybe it used to be easier to move the island, before the vault there focusing and regulating the energy. SO then destroying the vault just freed the forces of the island so it could go back to being unstuck.

Which would allow for the island being moved previously, but having the vault be intact.

Maybe i'm forgetting something but i think i might have a pretty simple answer to why dharma never return to the island. The dharma initiative was the group on people on the island and they all died in the purge. Do we know that there was more to them than the group that was on the island? Do they have a hq in a strip mall in a suburb of Portland, or in the basement of some building in Cambridge?
Awesome Ben line:
"The same thing all the dharma stations were for...silly experiments."
I think that right there tells us the importance of the dharma initiative in the overall lost mythology.

@carlos - that does make a lot of sense, but how do the ongoing Dharma food drops figure in?

@carlos: I went to the Hanso Foundation page on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanso_Foundation

It said: "The Foundation has offices in Copenhagen, Vík, Seoul, Zanzibar, and Santa Barbara.[1] The Alvar Hanso Cancer Center was constructed in Geneva."

so while Dharma might only be on island, their financial backers are global.

Locke has to be wrong when he says that Jack wasn't supposed to leave the island. From what we've seen of the island, it doesn't seem like it lets things happen that aren't supposed to happen. It has the voodoo power to prevent Michael from killing himself thousands of miles away but it can't stop Jack from leaving when he's actually on the island? Locke overestimates his understanding of what is meant to be. Locke might not be the island's savior. Like Ben, he might just be a tool the island is using for the time being. I think Locke's way too invested in his own importance to see things clearly.

Regarding whether or not Locke is dead or just "waiting to be reanimated," I hope he's dead. Not because I don't like the character Locke but because dead character brought back to life plot line is one of my least favorite generic plots no matter the show. What I expect is that he is really dead, but O'Quinn stays on the show for the 04-07 flashes and then is appears once Jack returns in a Christian-like capacity.

yeah i still have no good theory on the food drops (incidentally was there just the one? how long have they been living on that food or have there been multiples? they've been on island a fiarly short amount of time and if supplimented with fish and fruit maybe the one drop has lasted). In my head i picture them being launched out of a giant air connon on top of one of the peaks and then floating down with thier parachutes, but thats just silly.

So i guess the large question then would be why hasn't The Hanso Foundation come back? But if Hanso = Widmore then that would clear some of that up, though not all the way.

I wonder where chaddog is today? crummy day to be busy at work.

well a friend just reminded me of this commercial that ran last night:
http://www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com/
so i guess we DO need to be wondering why the Dharma Initiative hasn't come back.

@carlos: "In my head i picture them being launched out of a giant air connon on top of one of the peaks and then floating down with thier parachutes, but thats just silly."

Maybe not totally silly - I'm wondering if the food drops could have been initiated by Ben. He obviously has on- and off-island resources, and he really didn't want the survivors to have much reason to explore too much of the island - they'd still need to combine that food with local goods like fish and fruit, but it would lessen the chances that they would use up all nearby food and have to search further into the interior of the island and discover its secrets (or the other island, where Otherton was situated). Although it seems like if it had been Ben, that would have been mentioned.

@carlos: OOhh I had forgotten about that commercial! "A new research project is about to commence" - sounds interesting :)

Not the greatest episode, but it did answer some questions. I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but I think sometime in the next two seasons, we will see Jin being rescued from the water by Faraday and his little boat. Everything has a reason, or so they tell me.

Guys, my "why hasn't Dharma come back" line was just me being snarky; you've all heard my peace treaty theory, and the reasons therefor. I was willing to admit that my theory was wrong if Ben & Co. moved the Island, but since they didn't I'm back to being 100% sure on the matter.

The more I think about it, the more I like Charlotte being "from" The Island:

Current time: Charlotte arrives at the barracks (or maybe the docks). And says "I think I've been here!"

Flashback: We see a 5 year old Charlotte in the aftermath of the purge. She sees Richard and whomever used to lead The Others arguing with someone over the com link - it's Widmore with Alvar Hanso! Widmore is in charge of the DI branch that handles the Island, and he is pissed.

Next flashback: We see Widmore dropping kid Charlotte off at some british boarding school. Bonus points if Ms. Hawking is in charge.

Next flashback: We see grown up Charlotte graduate from college; her doctorate is a study on certain ancient polynesian cultures. On her dorm room wall is a picture she drew of some ancient ruins she saw as a kid...

Realtime: And we see Charlotte crest a hill on The Island and see the ruins in person.

Re: Octagon Recruiting: It's a reference to this year's Comic Con (where they showed the Orchid video last year). While it would be nice if the showrunners used it to start another ARG, I'm not holding my breath.

@carlos - indeed, a crummy day to be busy at work.

I wanted, though, to wait to post because I needed some time to get my head around this episode, which while not "Through the Looking Glass" good was still pretty phenomenal.

1. Claire - I'm going to start with arguably the spookiest moment, and one of the most interesting: Claire's nightmare warning to Kate to not bring Aaron back to the island. If Claire is dead and being used (a la Christian and Charlie) by the island to reach out to the O6, why is she giving a DIFFERENT message than the others, at least in regards to Aaron? I'm starting to agree with someone here (forgive me but I forgot who) that suggested there are TWO forces at play on the island, a ying and yang. One (arguably Smokie) is death/evil, and is trying (through ghosts) to bring the Oceanic 6 back. The other is life (embodied by the only woman "ghost" who isn't really a ghost maybe? And perhaps Walt's "get up John" spirit from season 3's finale) trying to push the O6 (or at least Kate in regards to Aaron) to stay away and move on with their lives (remember, of the O6, Kate is the only one who is not repeating her fault of the past, i.e. she's staying, not running.)

Under this theory, then, Christian is NOT Jacob, but rather the embodiment of a "dark" force trying to take over the island from the "light" of Jacob - and he needs to kill off the O6 (as well as the other castaways) to do so. Note that only John saw Jacob as Christian, and the one other man who had seen the "actual" Jacob (Ben) didn't go into the cabin. What if this dark force is what Jacob needs "help" from? The "Claire" in the cabin, then, was the REAL Claire, under the spell of the evil force.

What if, then, Locke as "leader" came to discover that the "Jacob" he was trusting was not REALLY Jacob at all? And that this Jacob had Claire? And that John needed to vanquish this evil to return the rightful Jacob to power and save Claire and the island? Wouldn't that perhaps motivate him to return to the real world, and encourage the O6 to return (i.e. until they're all there to fight in an ultimate fight between good/Jacob and evil/Smokey/Christian, no peace can exist?)

I haven't fully fleshed this theory out, yet, but where it all fits lies with Charlotte's namesake, C.S. Lewis. In his final Narnia book, The Last Battle, an evil ape Shift sews a lion skin on a dim-witted donkey Puzzle (frozen donkey wheel?), making the Narnians think the donkey (which the ape speaks for) is Aslan. The Ape then sells out the Narnians to their evil foes by manipulating the Narnians belief that they are heeding the word of Aslan. Only when the Pevensies (and other beloved characters) are called back to Narnia from the "real world" is the foe vanquished and Narnia "joined" to the real world (in something approximating heaven).

So what if "Christian" is impersonating Jacob (a la Shift/Puzzle), and thus threatening the island? Wouldn't the O6 (inhabitants of the mysterious island pulled there by mystical forces, a la the Pevensies) need to come back to fight the "last battle" to restore the island to good/Jacob? Wouldn't Aaron maybe have to stay behind (because, if we're going to stretch the Narnia/island/heaven metaphor) it's not his "time" to be in heaven?

This idea also makes Ben really interesting - is he working for good (Jacob) or evil (Smokey) in trying to go back to the island with the O6? Bringing Locke's body suggests it could be the latter....

I'll have some other thoughts soon.

Ok, I've crawled on here for a while, but haven't had the stones to post until now. Some people have briefly mentioned the political philosopher tie-ins (especially in regards to Locke), but I'm still not sure exactly what all they are supposed to mean. Surely if the producers went to the trouble of matching character names with these random Enlightenment thinkers (so far I have: Locke, Bentham, Rousseau, Hume, Burke, possibly Mikhail) there's a purpose. Otherwise they are just being lazy.

Obviously the most pertinent to this episode was the addition of Jeremy Bentham (and yes, good call by whoever mentioned his shrunken head kept at the university at which he taught). My first thought was that the writers, not wanting to reveal too early that it was Locke in the casket, changed his name to Jeremy Bentham in an effort to disguise this. (He hadn't used the name before, correct?) But even assuming that, there still must be a reason they picked this name. Philosopher John Locke (we'll call him PJL) was known for his writings on man's relation to man in the "state of nature" (I'm probably recapping stuff from earlier season on this board, so my bad.) PJL believed man was basically good, but in order to secure security, he had to enter into an agreement called the social contract, in which he relinquished his previously unlimited rights to the state. All of this to say, John Locke (Lost) seems to fit into this paradigm: trusting of Ben past reason (remember how shocked he was that Ben killed Keamy, letting the boat explode), even more trusting of "the island," and wary of Jack's single-handed appropriation of power that increases throughout the series.

My guess is that Locke that is control of The Others now has some kind of philosophical "awakening," realizing the faults of his previous assumptions. Something happens to convince him of the inherent evil of man, etc. Because of this, interim Locke (between his succession to Ben and his death) becomes a watered-down proponent of utilitarianism, the philosophy for which Bentham is famous. The crux of utilitarianism, in its Benthamite form, is that whatever is good for the most people is the best for the group. Perhaps Locke has to make a sacrifice of some of The Others to save the rest of the group? I don't know. But I'm watching for more parallels along these lines as next season progresses.

2. The O6 coverup - unlike some here, I completely bought into Jack's reasoning here. Sure, he doesn't believe in miracles, but he also realizes that Locke was, at least somewhat, right -- the freighter folk were trying to kill them, and Jack in some ways never should have made that call. The island was gone/shifted/moved, and Jack suspects that Locke did this. Put this all together and Jack realizes "there are dangerous people out there looking for the island, and if we let it be known that we were there/part of them, we are at risk of death ourselves, or pointing those people to the survivors and killing them."

I think, though, that it is clear that because Desmond and Frank ALSO got off the island, that those two will have to join in the return. From a plot standpoint, how better to get "back" to the island than by utilizing the only living pilot (Lapidus) the show has?

3. Sun - I have to believe that Sun does not think that Jin is dead, and that's why she wants to go back...maybe Locke/Bentham told her Jin was still alive? Either way, I think her play to Widmore was a classic "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" strategy. She knows he's looking for the island to destroy everyone on it (and maybe the island itself, or at least "reclaim it), and she cannot let that happen. Far better to use him (and his resources) to find the island, all the while keeping tabs on what he's up to, in order to keep everyone safe.

4. Ben - is anyone else moved by Ben's sacrifice for the island? Because I was...he gave up the island -- his home, his cause, his love in many ways -- to save it. And while I know I just posted that I thought he might be working for evil/Smokey in trying to get back to the island with dead Locke and the O6, maybe his banishment due to "moving" the island has given him a way to return with grace, via the O6...while redemption comes for real world 815ers by landing on the island and facing their past faults (Jack's dad issues, Michael's relationship with his son, Locke's trust, Kate's running), for Ben, his fault/sin (his manipulation and coveting of the island) could only be assuaged/penanced by LEAVING the island. Sure, he's been a bloodthirsty revenge-seeker since leaving, but maybe his sacrifice for the island makes him island-worthy to return now...

5. Hurley - one ongoing mystery is why Hurley said "I should have gone with you, Jack" at the season opener. I think I can attempt to answer that here...

First, let's remember that it was mainly redshirts that went with Locke that got gunned down by Keamy and his men. Claire (Charlie's woman, and thus the woman of Hurley's best friend) also came to (apparent?) death because she went with Locke and Hurley. So there's a lot of guilt there -- if they had all "Lived Together" those people might not have "died (not quite) alone."

Second, if Hurley had not gone with Locke, he wouldn't have been out in the jungle with the crew that took the helicopter. No Hurley on the helicopter, Sawyer is rescued, and the helicopter maybe has time to refuel and save Jin. Again, guilt.

@Chaddog - I was totally moved by Ben's sacrifice. That scene with him pushing the frozen donkey wheel nearly had me in tears - was Ben actually crying, or was he just winded from the exertion? It looked to me like he was sobbing.

@shara - I'm pretty sure it was tears, of sadness (leaving the island) and bitterness (almost like a petulant child -- the line to Jacob there fits in to this dynamic).

Is anyone else disappointed that the "frozen donkey wheel" the producers alluded to as the code-name for this show was ACTUALLY a LITERAL frozen donkey wheel? Because I sure am. I'm also wondering what this says about the island's history -- I'm starting to wonder if it was the home to an ancient group of people that had advanced technology (the wheel)...and built 4-toed statues? Atlantis, anyone? (it would make sense, too, why it is "lost."

@Chaddog - I'd bet that Hurley's guilt was more tied up with the helicopter thing than the Claire thing - even with his whole "assume all guilt whether its mine or not" tendencies, Charlie risked his life to get that message out, and it wasn't hurley's fault that she didn't want Charlie to die in vain either.

Also, Hurley made a second decision to STAY with Locke, Linus & Associates - they told him he could go on back but he didn't. And SAWYER came back for him. So there might be guilt from that second decision compounding the guilt over leaving in the first place, and then for SAWYER to sacrifice himself to save the gang at the heliopter, I'd buy that Hurley's regret is all about the ensuing guilt.

I really hope that on the season 4 DVDs, there's a bonus feature to watch the flashforwards in chronological order. Just sayin'.

A few assorted thoughts:

Walt has to go back. Why? There wouldn't be anything more poignant than seeing him reunited with Vincent. (No, not even Sun and a somehow-alive Jin.)

Anyone else think that the "destiny" to which Ben referred a few episodes ago as a fickle bitch was meant to be taken more literally, as in... Mrs. Hawking?

Rose and Bernard are still on the beach, right?

I'm a little disappointed we didn't get to see the Temple last night.

How has no one mentioned the kickass fight between Keamy and Sayid?! Immediately enters the pantheon of greatest TV fight scenes (along with the unbeatable Sydney Bristow-evil Francie duel from the Alias S2 finale).

I know this can't happen, but I still wish the show would end with a Walt-Aaron tune-off like at the end of Dark City (maybe in the zombie season Cuselof always talk about in the podcast).

Shouldn't Sun be angry at Kate, since the latter said she was going to get Jin and wouldn't come back without him, and then got back in the helicopter 20 seconds later?

Like James, I get the bad feeling that with Desmond reuniting with Penny earlier than we thought he's not going to make it; I see him finally gaining Widmore's respect by dying to save Penny from Ben.

Eight months until new Lost - Blurg! Frak!

One other thing I just remembered: right before things went badly for Michael, he suddenly looked around the room and saw what looked like a mounted camcorder. That wasn't there before, was it?

Given some of The Whispers' mentions of scopes and such, was that the first noticeable-without-audio-work sign that The Whisperers aren't purely psychic/ghostly? And why was Michael only able to see it then?

@ Shara says/Chaddogg

I agree with Ben crying at the end, as he was moving the island. He didn't look happy to me and I think that if nothing else, the show has proven that Ben will do anything and everything to protect the Island. It's his home, his family and now it is the place where his dead child lies, unburied I believe? Does anyone remember if they got to bury Alex or not?

My thoughts on this finale are positive I'd have to say. I think it was a good solid finale and I think it was really in the style of Empire Strikes Back, to use a reference the show runners seem to love.

Think about it. At the end of Empire, Luke is wounded, Han Solo is missing (and quite possibly dead), the 'gang' (for lack of a better word) is seperated and we're not really sure how it's going to end. We know it's going to end (or at least we had faith before Phantom Menance) well but we're just not sure of the particulars.

This finale feels remarkably similar.
Jack's appendix=Luke's hand? (yeah...that's pretty weak)
Jin's Death(?)=Han Solo encased in carbonite
O6 returning to the mainland=Luke, Leia and the droids on a ship with the rebels
Locke/Ben/Sawyer/Juliette=Lando and Chewie in Millenium Falcon??

That's probably a too literal metaphor but I think this episode might be one of my favorite ones. Sun acted the heck out of this episode and I definetely think she's playing both ends against the middle in the future.

Ghost Claire was suitably creepy and add me to the list that forsees a unhappy and grissly end to Desmond and Penny's happiness.

But I'm quite bummed that I have to wait another year for more Lost! I've finally gotten into it!

@quickdraw - I think that Ben did take some time off camera to bury Alex a couple episodes ago.

@a wong: "Anyone else think that the "destiny" to which Ben referred a few episodes ago as a fickle bitch was meant to be taken more literally, as in... Mrs. Hawking?"

I love it

@ Shara

Oh good! I was kind of worried that she might still be out there and if she was, ewww!

Question on my mind: for what purpose might Locke have visited everyone with his dire message and then committed suicide?

Hypothesis: So, I can see the scene of his suicide in my head, he is calm and secure in the knowledge that he is fulfilling the will of the island and saving all the people, and that the O6 will carry him back to the island, where he will be reborn. I can totally see him taking his own life if he felt that it would satisfy the will of the island, especially if he had faith that coming back to the island dead is what it was gonna take for him to become, maybe, one of the vaguely-defined immortal presences on the island. Crazy thought - maybe the island had made Ben sick because it wanted him to be reborn, but he lacked enough faith (or maintained too much self-interest) to perceive or pass the test, or something crazy like that, hence passing him over for Locke (I guess the common theory is that ben had lost his way, and was going against what the island wanted, so it made him sick).

So his suicide could be just another strategic maneuver. Also, if the 6 do come to perceive that they must all return to the island WITH Locke, then his impending burial (imposed timetable) is likely to spur them to action, so win-win-win.

There's always the alternative that Locke was desperate from all the crap that went down on the island for 3 years, and despondent that he couldn't rally any support to go back with them, and just gave up. But the island wouldn't have let him kill himself if the island didn't want him to. Maybe the island's done with him, but i doubt that the island will ever be done with John Locke.

Random thoughts..

- Sun is angry at Ben. Why would she only be angry at Jack?! - it's not like any of the other 06 stepped in to tell them to turn back for Jin either. She's obviously not angry at Hurley, so I think Jack is absolved. Also, she probably appreciated all the other things Jack did to protect them in earlier episodes.

- Seemed to me that Christian's vision on the boat for Michael was basically telling him his work is now done and he can die now like he wanted to. I believe it to be the island speaking to him. I do think Michael is dead, not sure how someone survives standing next to that much C4 when it explodes.

- HUGE credit to the person who posted a while back the suggestion of a line of dialogue where Ben casually asks John "Can I please have my weapon back now, John" I DIED laughing when he said that.

- Did anyone else notice that Hanso introduced himself with a different name on the orientation video?? Or, am i a complete idiot?

- I guess all tsunami theories regarding the island moving were wrong?

- food drops could be done by some third party contractor that was just told to continue dumping food on the island. They could have a giant warehouse of Dharma brand products. But.. why was that bottle of scotch dropped with it, which matches Widmore's favorite brand????

- I still think the Jacob/Esau story in the bible is important here. There are two forces fighting for control of the island (i.e birthright from Isaac like the story of Jacob/Esau in the bible - they both believe they have birthright to the island). Wouldn't it also make sense that Christian is pretending to speak for Jacob, in order to trick people. After all, Jacob means ISRAEL and in the bible Jacob IS Jewish, so having a guy named CHRISTIAN saying he represents Jacob does point to some deception, no???

BTW, convo between charlotte and daniel was weird and confusing. they both looked very relaxed and happy as they spoke about the island. Just sort of an awkward scene for me.. probably very important somehow.

@NateGo: The Asian scientist is not Hanso (who is caucasian [Danish] and has a beard), but you are correct that he gives a different name in each video he is in. He's been Marvin Candle, Mark Wickman and Edgar Halliwax.

good I'm only sorta an idiot..

Didn't it seem there was more to the story when Hurley asked Sayid how Jeremy Bentham died and he said "THEY SAY it was suicide"?!? Sayid has been killing people all over the world and now Locke who is an obvious threat to the O6 suddenly dies off the island... anyone else think Sayid had something to do with that?

صفحة جديدة 1

صرقعه  شات منتدي قلوب دليل مواقع  العاب  sitemap شات كتابي عالم الرومانسية قلوب السعودية

صرقعه شات منتدي قلوب دليل مواقع العاب sitemap شات كتابي عالم الرومانسية قلوب السعودية

صرقعه شات منتدي قلوب دليل مواقع العاب sitemap شات كتابي عالم الرومانسية قلوب السعودية

صرقعه شات منتدي قلوب دليل مواقع العاب sitemap شات كتابي عالم الرومانسية قلوب السعودية

صرقعه شات منتدي قلوب دليل مواقع العاب sitemap شات كتابي عالم الرومانسية قلوب السعودية

صرقعه شات منتدي قلوب دليل مواقع العاب sitemap شات كتابي عالم الرومانسية قلوب السعودية

صرقعه شات منتدي قلوب دليل مواقع العاب sitemap شات كتابي عالم الرومانسية قلوب السعودية

صرقعه شات  منتدي قلوب دليل مواقع العاب  sitemap شات كتابي  عالم الرومانسية  قلوب السعودية

صفحة جديدة 1

دمعة غلا  منتديات دمعة غلا  منتدى دمعة غلا  قصر الضيافه  الاسلام والحياه  الخيمه الرمضانيه  العام  العامه  تواصل الاعضاء كرسي الاعتراف قسم الأخبار

الحوار المفتوح والجاد  عالم الجريمه والعنف  مشاهير الفن والفنانين  همس القوافي عذب الألحان والخواطر القصص الواقعيه والروايات  الصحه والطب

نواعم دمعة غلا  الموضه والميك أب   الديكور والبيت المثالي  المطبخ والمأكولات  فرفشه ووناسه  الألعاب والمسابقات  مسلسلات الإنمي 

  ألبوم الصور  السفر والسياحه  الرياضه والرياضيين  السرعه والسيارات  أحلى تواجد لآدم  البلوتوث والفيديو  الجوال والإتصالات  الكمبيوتر والبرامج

 ماسنجر   ماسنجريات   ورشة التصاميم والجرافيكس  الاقتراحات والشكاوي

http://www.d-gla.com/vb/cv_rss_feeds.php
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/info.php?
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/external.php?type=RSS2
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/sitemap.php
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/external.php?type=rss2
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/external.php?type=xml
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/archive/index.php

اناشيد طيور الجنة
العاب تلبيس زفاف
العاب سونك