Lostwatch: Back to the Future

It was perfect. The only thing that would make it better would be to have the full 16 episodes and not just 8. Stupid strike!

Did anyone else want to punch future Jack on the b ball court with Hurley? He was so fake and unJack-like.

I was so sad all over again for Charlie, and his sacrifice, I teared up with Hurley. But what joy it brought me to see Charlie again in the future. A happy confident Charlie, with a purpose.

I liked it. The guys I watched it with liked it. I think the best part was, arguably, when John said, "You're not going to shoot me, Jack" and we all went "Oh, of all the stupid things to say" and... *click*. Awwwwkkkwardd.

I'm not too fond of the flashforwards, mainly because I think it dulls the suspense. Still intriguing, but in a "Hmm, I wonder" instead of a "What the hell is going to happen next?!"

I hope the attorney Hurley met comes back (he's the Lieutenant from The Wire, right?).

As far as bball court Jack, yeah, and he left so abruptly too, like Hurley had him completely pegged. I really do wonder why Hurley regrets going with Locke, that was probably the biggest question raised in my opinion.

Anyway, just really glad it's back!

@ DM -
I hope the attorney Hurley met comes back (he's the Lieutenant from The Wire, right?).

As a Wire snob I feel it's my duty to tell you that Daniels is good police, and thus he is no longer a Lieutenant. He is currently Deputy Ops, and if Carcetti has his way he'll be Commissioner in 6 months.

All jokes aside, I enjoyed this episode, although i'm not a huge fan of the Jacob stuff. Are the writers purposely trying to make us not like Jack? His stubborness and borderline stupidity is growing tiresome. Sayid should lead that bunch.

I have a question you might be able to help me with, James. With the writers strike will there be no official Lost podcasts? I assume Cuse and Lindelof won't support that kind of promotion in support of the WGA. I found them a helpful resourse the last couple of seasons, but that was before I found you and Speinwall!

@jbone: I'm guessing no, as they don't seem to have been doing any other promotions recently.

Ben served as great comic relief in this episode. We definitly got a sense of that lying thing that future Jack told Kate he was sick of doing. The detective (Big Mike) talking to Hurley showed that the people on the outside have no knowledge of an island. Plus, Jack went to visit Hurley so he wouldn't tell anyone the truth.

I totally agree on the Carnivale comparison. Then again it was more Carnivale-like in "The Man Behind the Curtain." I wonder if we are going to find out if one of the polar bear's tore off a couple of Jacob's limbs. lol. A comic reference to "Management" of course.

Second, the Lance Reddick creepiness. Kind of reminded of when Ms. Hawking introduced herself to Desmond in his journey to the past.

Every minute of this episode felt sort of sureal. I mean I had gotten so used to not getting anything new and just theorizing what was going to happen next. I just hope the strike will end if a couple of weeks so they can produce a few more episodes this spring.

Does anyone else start feeling sick during certain Lost episodes? The suspense sometimes is so great my stomach starts doing flips. When Hurley was lost and running through the jungle and the creepy orchestra music started, I started to leave the room, it was so intense, and I finished watching the scene from the doorway as I peeked around the corner. My blood pressure must have been off the charts. I might have to read Lostwatch before I see any new episodes, or else find some kind of counter-therapy to help me recover from the stress of this show.

Anyone else think the guy sitting in the chair is Christian? When the camera pans up, the person appears to be wearing white sneakers and a dark suit which is what Christian is wearing when he appears on the island.

The person in the chair was DEFINITLY John Terry, the actor who plays Christian Shepard. Now whether or not it was Christian or some island manifestation, is anyone's guess. I heard an interesting theory that someone thoght it was the Smoke Monster, which was having some kind of meeting with Jacob. Sounds wierd, I know. But it also makes some sense when you consider the last Mobisode ans early Season 1.

I noticed the break in the pattern of the season openers introducing new people but I liked the fake-out that momentarily we thought we were on the beach. I think that they wanted to just make sure that the viewers were all on board that, yes, there are now flashforwards, but maybe not all as forward. I do like the idea that they are going back to a convergence point, but I think that it would be really limiting, because they seem to have made a big jump back from the Jack about to jump off the bridge to the Jack with just a small splash of vodka and some tightness around the eyes leading a good life -- the one Ben mocked him about in the season finale with the what do you have to go back to question -- back to the hospital, fixing people.
So fingers crossed for more tanker action next week, I had hoped for Naomi's backstory but now that she's dead she will have to show up in other peoples. But my big question from last night is: WHO is her sister? She seemed pretty sincere about helping them off the island when she was on the satphone knowing she was close to death.
As someone who actually liked all of last season, I think that while some of the stuff obviously didn't work the way the writers hoped, N & P for example, most of the stuff paid off big, like Hurley and the van. I think that the reason Hurley can see Jacob, and I was sure as he approached the cabin that he would, is because last season, he dealt with his fears and issues and moved on, made a change. That was the point of Tricia Tanaka is Dead. I think that for some reason people willing to confront their pasts and realize they are wrong get blessed for lack of a better word, and the ones who don't like Mr. Eko, get killed horribly by a big black smoke monster thing.
So I was very happy to see this episode focus on Hurley to find out he is one of the "Oceanic 6", and how chilling was that to hear! and see him take charge on the beach, but then in the flashforward REGRET it. WOW! I so can't wait for the rest of the season, and only hope that the stupid producers will soon start bargaining in good faith, and with some thought past their own greed.

Wow! WOW!!! What a way to start a season. I liked that this episode teased us a little - we think we hear The Whispers, but it winds up being the big group of people arriving. Naomi's body disappears and I think - hey! Like Patchy! Her dead body just disappeared - but she had just drug her injured self into the woods to hide.

Big Questions that popped out:
1) Who was the "attorney" for Oceanic? Obviously not really an Oceanic attorney, but someone sent to try and get info out of Hurley about the other survivors. He asked Hurley "Are they alive?" or something like that. This, plus Jack-n-Hurley's conversation about hiding things, equals a juicy cover-up - but whose? If it is Jack and Hurley keeping the secret against outside forces, then it could easily be a Losties-designed cover-up, rather than Dharma/Hanso/Oceanic/whatever-crafted one. I can totally see Jack, Kate, and Hurley all sacrificing themselves to save the others (not "The Others", just the others) - and considering what we saw in this episode with Hurley heeding CHarlie's warning and turning away from Jack, i can't imagine Hurley deciding to leave the island unless there was some good ulterior Greater Good motivation behind the move. But Hurley apologizes to Jack for going with Locke, but also says they never should have left, and we know Jack eventually thinks the same thing, so DEAR GOD WHAT HAPPENS??????

2) If Jack, Kate, and Hurley are 3 of the "Oceanic 6", who are the other 3? Of all the survivors, Sun had the most need to get off the island, because of the pregnant-woman-dying-thing. So Sun, Jin, and Baby could round out the 6. Maybbe??

3) So, Hurley's visions. . . On the Island - Did Hurley see Jacob? And was that Locke that Hurley saw in the cabin (the creepy staring eye)? And what was up with the cabin moving around? We know that the cabin is real, so I don't believe for a second that Hurley is all crazy. I think that Hurley is special and can somehow bring things to reality at will, or is somehow otherwise equipped to perceive the "specialness" of the island, whether because of the goodness of his nature or his willingness to stand up to his own demons. Or maybe the cabin just WANTED Hurley to find it because it WANTED Hurley to decide to keep people from leaving.

4) I'm dead, but I'm also here: WTF does this mean? Is this support for Chaddog's theory of the Living and the Dead? Has Charlie become like Desmond's time-traveling creepy lady, able to pass through space/time and interact with "special" people? Maybe that's what happens to people on the island who die in a certain way (martyrs/saviors), or living-dead or dead-living. . . The vision was solid - Charlie slapped Hurley to prove a point - but so have others been, like the horse was solid for Kate to touch, like Christian Shepherd was solid to pet Vincent the Yellow Lab in the mobisode. Or, is hurley really just nuts, imagining people who aren't really there again?

I guess I was kind of suprised by the total lack of answers to anything in this show. I mean, it was basically all about everyone on the island being caught up to the perspective of the viewer at the end of "Looking Glass."

The most intiguing line I thought was when Hurley apologised for going with Locke and then immediately followed with "I don't think we were supposed to leave the island."

So does that mean that Locke's followers left the island while those that followed Jack (excluding, of course, Jack himself) ended up staying? Irony, anyone?

Also, the timing of the flash forward and the content of the episode very much imply that it could be Hurley in the Coffin.

And Charlie! ^-^ I'm so happy to see him, but I spent the entire scene going "weeeeeeird" also, what does it mean that Hurley can basically think something away that he doesn't want to deal with? (Jacob's shack, Charlie)

Shara, I was thinking about the other 3 of the Oceanic 6 as well.

I'm rooting for Sayid, Claire and Locke or Sun

I'm of the opinion that Babies don't count because they weren't on the flight. By the same logic, does that mean none of the "others" ever leave the island?

The dead/here thing -- what if Chaddog is half right and the island is kind of like a form of purgatory or a weigh station before people become reincarnated in the 'real' world. You aren't supposed to leave the island... you're supposed to die there so that you can become 'reborn' in the [off island] world. How that squares with Charlie, I don't know, but maybe there's some kind of special deal for folk that die particularly altrusitic deaths ;).

I'll i have to say is holy crap.
no thats not true, i have much more than that.
I too thought that Locke was in Jacob's cabin talking to Jacob, probably getting together on the plan to keep the boat folks off the island. He sees Hurley and then off they go, he even picked up Hurley's torch.
I get the feeling after the Jack/basketball convo that the central mystery of Lost is about to shift frm What the hell is going on to what the hell happened.
I'm inclined to think that charlie was a halucination but it was another patient that pointed him out to Hurley so what does that mean?
I have more but need to do some work, will be back.

I'm completely geeked out over this entire episode. A few preliminary thoughts:

1) The Cover-Up. We have some indication, now, that Jack, Kate, Hurley and the other 3 of the Oceanic 6 participated in a cover-up, claiming to be the only survivors of the crash (or only to survive the crash AND survive the island). This was especially made clear in the interrogation scene - Hurley denying that he knew Ana Lucia. So why did the 6 cover-up the truth? Were they forced to by an outside force? Did they do so out of guilt over something the 6 did? Or are they trying to protect the people they left behind from something? (I really have no theory yet on this...give me some time).

2) Michael Abbaddon - good lord, Lance Reddick (aka Cedric Daniels) is creepy. He's obviously interested in knowing whether anyone is still alive back on the island. So it would seem that the Oceanic 6 were lying in part to protect people on the island. Abbadon's inquiry would also seem to indicate that he WAS NOT on the freighter - otherwise they could have searched the island themselves and found the other survivors/non-Oceanic 6.

3) "I think it wants us to go back." Wow, that's powerful. Something (not someone) is drawing Hurley to going back. Jack later (it appears) has the same problem ("We weren't supposed to leave....we have to go back!"). Why is Kate not called back in the same way? What force (mystical or psychological) is calling them back? And what changes in Jack to make him realize he's supposed to return?

My preliminary theory? Claire is NOT one of the Oceanic 6. I think Hurley seeing Charlie is a function of his guilt over leaving Claire (Charlie's love) behind on the island....and perhaps he views the appearance of Charlie as "it" (i.e. the island) reaching out to him to return for Claire. This is given extra credence if we learn the island has "living dead" type powers or effects (more on this in a moment). I then think that Jack LEARNS somehow that Claire is his sister OFF the island - through a vision, or Claire's aunt reaching out to him after the Oceanic 6 publicity, or a journalist who writes a story about the whole Oceanic Flight uncovers the truth and reveals it to Jack - and then is also racked with guilt, or plagued with visions like Hurley is.

4) The shack. What. The. Hell. Was. That?! First, it was CLEARLY Christian Shepard, and he was CLEARLY wearing white shoes (I'm not letting go of this). Did the shack just "appear" to Hurley? Or did he just happen upon it's precise location? Was the first one real, and the second a hallucination? (God, Hurley is fascinating in this sense). And WHOSE EYE was that? I've heard Locke's, I've heard Mikhail/Patchy's (why we only saw one eye)...I'm going with Locke's eye. After killing Naomi (I agree with Dara - something's up with Naomi's sister), I think he went back to Jacob's cabin, to commune with Jacob and try to figure out how to "help" Jacob. Hurley happened upon the shack, Locke looked out, Hurley ran off saw the shack again in a hallucination, and then Locke caught up with him.

5) The BIG question - how does Hurley going with Locke end up being a huge regret? And HOW does Hurley go from being with Locke in the anti-freighter group, to being with Jack and Kate in the Oceanic 6???? The mind reels at the possibilities...

It felt great to be engaged again by the Lost mysteries. Locke's admonition to Hurley not to let Charlie's death be for nothing seems to resonate in the future and prevent them for going on with their lives. And whose eye was that inside Jacob's cabin? Locke? Future Hurley? Someone else?

I also went back and looked at images of Jacob's cabin scenes, especially the rocking chair, which definitely seems to be Christian Shephard, and that picture on the wall the camera lingered on. Turns out it's the picture of a yellow lab. Should we believe Vincent's actions are less than innocent? Does the dog manipulate the Losties? Michael had felt compelled to take him away from Walt's adoptive father and bring him on the plane. That can't be a coincidence any more. In the last Missing Pieces, Vincent is given a task by dead senior Shephard. Locke, the island-channeling weirdo, made a silent whistle for him. Shannon was following the dog to find Walt in the jungle, and he led her to Boone's grave. He befriended Ana Lucia and we know what happened to her. Vincent is also the one who tempted Charlie with those Virgin Mary drug statues. He led Hurley to the van in season 3. And why was he not hurt when 815 crashed? That dog seems more and more suspicious to me.

Even though that looked like Jacob's cabin, and it was obviously Christian Shephard sitting in what appeared to be Jacob's chair, I just think it's too obvious for Christian to be Jacob. The reveal of Jacob won't be so blatant and so offhand like it was shown last night. Personally, I think it's more of a monster situation, and I'd place money on that being Locke's eye that popped up at Hurley.

The episode was very solid overall, though. But now I have to worry about questions about the future in addition to questions about the past and present. So many questions. I need me some answers.

Thanks for bringing me back into your world, Lost. Jerks.

I was doing just fine without you.

There were two lines of dialog from last night that might start framing the "what the hell happened" questions. 1 -- When the cop asks Hurley about Ana Lucia, he asks if Hurley saw or spoke to her ON THE PLANE, no mention of the island. So even in the "best" case scenerio and they are "rescued" relatively quickly in their timeline, now that the freighter is there, where were they suppose to be for the 3+ months they have been missing? On a liferaft in the middle of the Pacific? On an island but not "the island" but just them? And with the Oceanic Air ad that played during Eli Stone and other stuff on the net, there seems to be a building story, cover-up, about 0ceanic 815 being at the bottom of the ocean. But who is at the bottom of that, the airline or one of the other players.
2 -- When Jack goes to see Hurley at the mental hospital he walks in, we see that, Hurley makes one shot then Jack says "You ever miss?" ok, I may be reading WAY too much into this (although that is the fun of this show isn't it) but it just felt like Jack had watched Hurley throw free throws before, maybe even played Horse with him before, so when and where could that have happened? I just keep thinking of some holding facility that they were in to get the story straight before they were let to go back to their lives.
Something is certainly going on, and with so many groups with an interest in keeping the island secret, including the island itself maybe, I think we are going to need a scorecard this season to keep all the players straight!

@ Chaddogg- funny while I was watching the ep I thought it was Locke in the cabin for the reasons you give, but when I rewatched the scene, as we all did, right?, I came up with this that I posted on Alan Sepinwalls blog last night:

I'm another vote for Christian's body if not spirit, and the eye being Patchy going to the source for some answers after finding out that Ben had been telling more fibs.

But what was it about the cabin appearing to Hurley the second time and then him being able to make it go away?

So any thoughts folks, about what's up with that cabin, I hadn't realized it could just manifest itself where-ever it wants to. I mean Jacob/Christian/Smokey yes, manifest away, but a cabin complete with rocking chair and bad painting, that seems pretty corporeal to me.

@Dara: It's possible that the story is that they were just the only survivors. Period. It seems to be obvious that the rest of the world thinks no one else survived. So maybe there was a small island they survived on.

I think the bigger question from society will be how Hurley appears to have gotten FATTER since the pilot. That is the biggest mystery. Simple math of calories vs. energy expunged would mean that he'd be dropping like crazy on an island without food drops.

So i'm thinking that it wasn't hurley's funeral that Jack attended. Coffin wasn't big enough, hurley has living family (unless they all dies while he was on the island), and (as of now anyway) i don't see any reason for Kate to react the way she did to Jack thinking maybe she'd be there.
Also i think Hurley's mental institution accomodations and the uber creepy Abbaddon asking him if he wanted and up grade pretty much means the money is gone and that Hurley won't be financing Jack's rescue/return attempt (penny anyone?)
Doc Jensen over at EW thought that Jack being willing to shoot Locke point blank in the face was a bit far fetched and Jack should have been over whelmed with happiness not itching to kill someone. i think he makes a good point but that never even occured to me while i was watching. So anyway i was just wondering what everone else thought of that? Out of character or getting something he wanted to do done before authorties show up?

I'm pissed. My DVR screwed up and all thru the show it jumps, skips and freezes. Of course this always seemed to happen at moments like Charlie and Hurley were talking or Ben and Rouseau. I assume she slugged him by his mouth bleeding and his position. That was one of my jump/skips. I need to call the cable company and get a replacement. I guess I will have to download it so I can see the whole thing.

Also it must be worth noting that Jack has apparently declared himself to be the island's executioner. And so has Locke. The Man of Science and Man of Faith are both moving toward such fixed (and oppositional) ideological perspectives that they can each justify murder for the "common good."

I also didn't think much was conclusively revealed last night, so this post is going to be theory heavy.

That the Losties were splitting up into two groups, that not everyone would be rescued, and of those that are rescued, they'd be from both groups - i.e. the rescue is not happening any time soon? Not surprised (heck, I called it).
That the showrunners would admit this on episode one of the new season is truly surprising to me - especially when they went and emphasized they were doing it with the Hurley speech at the end. I truly think this is the showrunners trying to temper audience expectations of "so they get off next week?".

So now we have some clear indications of just how "the rescue" goes - there's some kind of showdown (my bets are still on Jack holding a Dharma science experiment hostage or Paik pulling rank and demanding his daughter gets off now)- and an agreement is made: everyone in the room gets out now (which is at least 6+ people - the Oceanic 6 that publicly admit to getting rescued and possibly some additional number of wanted individuals (Kate, Sawyer) and non-815ers (Rousseaus, Desmond)) - but no one else does, and they can't admit to anything other than "they survived the crash until rescue arrived" or the situation will be "sanitized" - both those left on the Island and the survivors.

So now we see poor Hurley, troubled by his guilt of those he left behind, falling back into his old habits.

Except he's not crazy.

I was struck by how much last night's "not quite as much in the" future Jack differed from Looking Glass' future Jack. And then I thought about how further in the future Jack's "I was so high I forgot my father was dead" seemed so ridiculous.

But what if Jack forgot his father is dead... because he's been getting his own Charlie style visions (except his are of Christian) tormenting him to go back? Explains his sudden decay, his change to wanting to go back, his confusion about his father, heck, even his sudden drug use.

But if they aren't crazy, then why are they suddenly getting these visions (and at this point we have no idea if they are anything more than visions - remember Hurley thought Island Dave physically interacted with him as well)? Here's my theory of the day:

The Whispers, and the 'dead people' visions, are from one and the same source: Psychic Remote Viewers. Except they aren't allied with the Others - they are allied with the Island. In the past/present, they've been allied with the Others, but now that they aren't a power, they've switched their focus to trying to get the Lostie escapees to come back and save the Island from Hanso.

And the Others are indeed done as a power on the Island. Not only did all their best fighters get killed in the beach assault, but their Room 23 brainwashing is wearing off (as seen by Juliet in the Missing Pieces episode, the behavior of the Others in the Looking Glass and Lostie beach, etc.) They are going to literally get killed by the Hansos in their first conflict. I mentioned yesterday that I thought Ben going to the radio tower was in fact cowardice, because he knew or at least suspected his side had already lost - and we got confirmation of that this episode when he admitted Alex has a better chance of surviving with the Losties than the Others.

I do have two questions though:

That was clearly "Christian" in Jacob's shack. But any idea who the one eye was? Charlie? Mikhail? What actor was hired as Jacob? Fahey? What's his eye look like?

Also, maybe I just don't recognize Charlie with a beard, but when Hurley was counting to 5 the person next to him at count 4 did not look like Charlie. Anyone have a link to any screen caps?

P.S. I am a bad person. Every time I heard the new Minkowski voice I thought to myself "Jonny 5 is alive!"

P.P.S. Next week's episode is apparently titled "Confirmed Dead" and features flashbacks of the freighter crew. I'll bet any of you one white shoe that the last flashback is Minkowski getting off the phone with Jack the first time and the following conversation taking place:
"Did he say 815?
It's the Hostiles. All the 815 passengers are confirmed dead. Go in hot."

I'll stick with my theory that the freighter crew does not know Faux 815 (if indeed Hanso did not crash an actual plane) is fake and treats the Losties like Hostiles. For his first act as leader, could Locke have picked a worse place to set up camp?

Of the Oceanic 6, don't we know at least four now? Jack, Kate, Hurley and Claire?

Didn't Desmond's vision mean that if Charlie dies and unblocks the signal, Claire gets off the island?

Doesn't that make it certain that Claire gets off?

I had no problem with Jack shooting Locke even with rescue imminent, maybe especially with rescue imminent. No one knows better than Jack how far Locke is willing to go to keep them on the island. Until they are all off, it is not safe to have Locke around. And Jack is nothing if not completely focussed and driven to get them home, we saw that in the season finale when he let the guys at the beach be "killed" rather than give Ben the satphone. If he was willing to let people he cared about die why not kill someone he both hated and saw as a risk.
And I would like to say that I think that Matthew Fox doesn't get enough credit, I get that people don't like Jack but Fox is doing an amazing job showing how even the most noble goals can be gained by reasons, behavior and actions that are far less than noble. Oh, and that beard from the season finale was not his fault!

I agree with Shara. Locke never intended to shoot Jack, but he was very surprised by the click of the revolver. I think the realization that Jack really would have shot him will have serious repercussions down the road for the Oceanic survivors. A no-holds-barred attitude is being set up. Perhaps that's when Hurley will change sides and return with Jack.

And in the future, maybe Kate is taking care of Hurley and that's why she has to return before "he" wonders where she is, given that Hurley was already losing it last night.

Could Desmond have been lying to Charlie about Claire getting off the island if Charlie sacrificed himself? Could the island be manipulating Desmond with the visions? Could Desmond have been manipulating Charlie with the visions? I'm not convinced that Claire gets off the island yet - not without further proof.

James, can we have a sub-discussion about the Oceanic Ad and related websites?

@shara: link? I didn't see the ad, as I wasn't about to sit through Eli Stone a second time for it.

Going along with the other posters:
It does look like the most likely cover story was that they were the only ones to get out of the plane as it went down and lived on (some other) island until a rescue boat came through. Such a cover story would seem to preclude non-815ers getting off the Island (so no Desmond, Rousseau, etc.) and also makes it more likely that the Oceanic 6 are actually just 6 people (no outlaws went into hiding) - presumably Hanso pays off the Justice Department to get Kate off the hook, which is a frightening level of power.

Of course, such a cover story would seem utterly flimsy: anyone who looked at the seating chart could tell you how unlikely it is that the inhabitants of those nearly random seats would be the only ones to make it out the emergency hatches. Hence it could be practically anyone connected with any passenger (even those that died in the crash that we have never "seen"!) on 815 that is questioning Hurley.

If Desmond's visions are assumed to be infallible, then we know Claire gets on a helicopter. But that's it. Said helicopter could just go to the freighter and that's as far as Claire ever gets from the Island.

And again, Find 815 / Fly Oceanic do not appear to be written by the showrunners. Do not believe anything in them.

@James, I am a huge kool-aid drinking fan of Lost. I have gone along with every twist and turn, trusting that the producers had a plan and some day I could look back and say oh, that's why... But I have one question. And hopefully you can help. Are we going to get to the end of this and have definitive answers or is it going to be open to interpretation, and God forbid make me think or something? Ok, maybe a little thinking, but I do want my dots connected, and no screen going black Sopranos style. I just need to prepare myself.

@kennychiwa - I'm not sure that Desmond's vision regarding Charlie drowing and then Claire and Aaron getting off the island means Claire is a member of the Oceanic 6. For all we know, Desmond's vision of Claire getting into a helicopter happens AFTER the freighter takes away the Oceanic 6...or is otherwise not exactly what Desmond interprets it to mean.

Here's a crazy theory: what if Kate is impersonating Claire in the flash-forwards? Far-fetched, but maybe Aaron is who she has to go back to....and "being" Claire gave her a cover from prosecution. Then again, she should be a celebrity as a member of the Oceanic 6, so wouldn't someone (her mother? The FBI?) notice her in the coverage?

@Marymary: The producers have specifically reference the Sopranos ending as the sort of thing they won't do. I suspect there are big answers we'll get answered and smaller threads we'll have to be satisfied to leave dangling.

@Shara: added a new thread for the ads, though I also assume they're strictly ABC promo and aren't going to offer up any vital info.

@ Tom - are they not? Nevermind then! The address was www.flyoceanicair.com, which led to a press release (http://www.flyoceanicair.com/Oceanic_Press_Release.pdf) and a video, which was very similar to the Eli Stone Oceanic commercial, with flashes of a link: www.find815.com

Combining this episode with "Through the Looking Glass", I'm wondering about the endgame - in the end, will Jack merely be broken and longing to go back? Or is there MORE beyond that - his eventual redemption through returning to the island?

If you accept that Jack is the show's "hero", and that the show will have, ultimately, a "happy-ending" of some sort (two HUGE assumptions, I should add), then what we'll be seeing here is Jack's errors and downfall. Attempting to shoot Locke is one key. Turning his back on the other survivors may be another. And upholding the conspiracy theory that the Oceanic 6 were the only survivors would be another. (Note: the cop asked Hurley if he saw Ana Lucia on the plane - it seems that the Oceanic 6's story is that they were the only survivors of the CRASH, and they somehow survived on an island until rescued).

It looks like we're going to see Jack making a ton of bad choices, and these bad choices will ultimately manifest itself as the destructive guilt that we saw in Jack in "Through the Looking Glass"...leading ultimately to his redemption, right? He HAS to go back, doesn't he?

I watched through Eli Stone to wait for the Oceanic commercial and it featured something interesting: a brief clip of an Oceanic plane at the bottom of the ocean.

Didn't Naomi claim that they found the plane wreckage at the bottom of the ocean and that all the bodies were there?

Jacob's Cabin: So far only Hurley, Locke, and Ben have seen it. Any interesting theories about it out there?

@ Chaddog - it had crossed my mind that FutureKate must be impersonating SOMEBODY. Kate, of all the survivors, was one that I had imagined least likely to choose to leave the island, because if she returned she would go back to being a wanted fugitive. Unless part of the cover-up involved someone erasing the record of her past, or unless she was successfully pretending to be one of the other survivors.

I have to believe they go back. This is a show about redemption. There will be casualties along the way, and maybe Jack will be one of them, but I find it hard to believe.

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned here. (But there are a lot of posts, maybe I missed it.) If you follow this link, it shows what the sharpie writing on Charlie's hand said in the police station. Instead of Not Penny's Boat, it said THEY NEED YOU. OOOh! Did I mention how much I love the new Charlie? The old one was starting to get on my last nerve, but sacrifice brought a whole new love.
http://cache.lostpedia.com/images/6/6d/THEY_NEED_YOU.jpg

@Chaddog - Interesting that Kate was referencing a child (Aaron?) and not Sawyer/BF/Husband at the end of season 3.

My first thought was that it could be her and Sawyer's kid? I'm not sure how likely it would be that Kate would impersonate Claire. She might not be part of the Oceanic Six and could be a Lost survivor in hiding.

@shara - I agree. There HAS to be an explanation for Kate's freedom: either a Widmore/Dharma conspiracy paying off the powers that be, or else Kate returning as another passenger.

I'm really most interested in seeing the dynamics that come into play to get Hurley (who is currently with Team Locke/Faith) to be in the Oceanic 6 with Jack and Kate (currently on Team Jack/Science). And how does Hurley going with LOCKE become a regret if Hurley ALSO thinks they shouldn't have left the island?

I'm not even sure where to start.

I couldn't believe Jack pulled the trigger. That was a defining moment and, as Chaddogg said, could be the first of many in Jack's downward spiral.

I also am wondering why Hurley was shown drawing an eskimo and igloo before he saw Charlie.

Can we also take a moment to realize that once Hurley got home he finally got the Camaro running?

All of the things with Christian, the cabin, Jacon, and Locke are too much for me to even theorize about right now.

I agree with Kate as a mommy, I mean that Volvo she was driving is a mommy car. And maybe she is with Sawyer. But she and Jack also seem to have a relationship of some sort in the future. She knew where to meet him at the airport. Maybe she and Jack had some type of affair in the future, and Sawyer/future hubby found out. And I think the forces that brought them back are powerful enough to make Kate's criminal past disappear.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't Locke's eye that Hurley saw at the window of "Jacob's" shack. Terry O'Quinn has blue eyes and the eye at the window was brown.

IMO, it kind of looked like Charlie... but he's dead so what do I know.

hey y'all, is there a screenshot of the eye in the shack anywhere yet?

James, You pulled me back into Lost. I watched the first season, loved it, and half of the second before I bailed out as it was moving too slow and work killed my TV time.

I was planning to go online and read the episode summaries to catch up, but ABC did a nice video summary on the website in 8 minutes 16 seconds; the video is humorous with that much info in short time, and it got me back up to speed.

The looking glass episode w/pop ups and the summary episode last night were also helpful. I cannot think of anything that happened in the first episode that I felt was confusing after missing several seasons. I think it would be hard for someone starting from scratch, but I was a big fan of the first season and at least I got to know the main characters.

It feels like reacquainting with old friends.

@kennychiwa - I should note that we have NO conclusive evidence that Kate was returning to be with a child; just good old fashioned theorizing. So she could be returning to a child, to her husband, hell - to Vincent the supernatural and all-powerful dog!

I am soooo stoked about Lost being back. PLEASE END THE WRITERS' STRIKE! We need all 16 episodes!

@chaddog- to clarify, I should say that I thought it was interesting that you believe Kate could be referencing her kid and not Sawyer or significant other, as many people speculate. I thought the same a few weeks ago- maybe she's referencing her kid.

I'm very excited about the new characters. I think Nikki and Paolo didn't work because the writers were asking the viewers to believe that they were there all along. Loved their last episode though.

@JustinD- I read over in EW, Jeff Jensen saw a recurring motif of fish that was evident in Hurley's mental hospital, his drawing, and Charlie's shirt.

Fish being a biblical symbol (Jonah and the Whale, Jesus, etc.) I think it could just represent our constant search for clues and our endless theorizing. It's probably just a red herring (which is a fish!)

I was initially skeptical about the flash forwards. I was worried that the show would take the format of showing a character make a decision in the past, then cut to them in the future saying "I shouldn't have done that". It worked last night, but it'd get annoying.

That being said, I think the flash forwards ultimately are a good idea. It's interesting to try to place a certain moment chronologically, and figure out how it affects other aspects of what we've already seen. Flashforwards beat out flashbacks because now the characters can interact and stories can literally cross (rather than just the audience seeing the relation.)

One of the lasting images for me from last night was seeing the entire group out in the jungle. Previously, we usually only saw the group at the beach, with just those on a certain mission being in the jungle. This, visually, showed that this season will be a total departure from what we've seen before.

On Jack and the Trigger Pull: The show is setting up Jack to be the main character in a very adult re-casting of The Lord of the Flies. Where Locke is Simon, and Hurley is kind of a spin on Piggy-who-lives. The moment made sense to me and also, I think it is significant what Locke says, "You're not going to shoot me any more than I was going to sho[oot you]" here's the deal. Locke KNEW the gun wasn't loaded. He knew that Jack COULDN'T shoot him. He was simultaneously testing Jack, letting everyone else know a side of Jack that Locke knew was there, but they didn't and also letting Jack know that he very much would have pulled the trigger on Jack, if it had been required. Big time power play to Locke's favor.

Also, the six that leave the island... I have to disagree with whoever said that there's got to be a "greater good" reason for them to go. For example, I think that the powers that be could easily manipulate Jack by promising a pardon for Kate. Each member of the Oceanic 6 has something they'd be willing to sell their soul for -- which is why each of those six are the only ones to leave the island.

I'm suprised that noone has mentioned Walt and Mike being two of the Oceanic 6. We know they'll be back this season and the actor who plays Walt's growth would make them showing up in the future seem plausible. (i'd go with Sun to round out the 6 as she has the most motivation to get off the island rigth away since she has a baby on the way.)

I think with the OJ that whenever a character in a movie or book or something eats an orange or drinks OJ, they face danger or death. Julianne Moore eats an orange before the great car chase scene in Children of Men (and I'm sure there are other examples of impending doom from oranges).

Anyway, my guess is that Jack went insane in the third season finale thanks to his dad's ghost coming back to haunt him to return back to the island, a la Charlie's ghost with Charlie. This could be the reason why Jack says that his father is still alive like he did in the finale when he was being confronted about his drug/alcohol abuse at the hospital.

@carlos_the_dwarf- Love your screen name's shout out to Freaks and Geeks. I was just talking to my coworker about Michael and Walt. Their return was teased, but I think a lot of people assume they're going to pop back up on the island. I think they'll show up in flash forwards. I don't think they'll be two of the six though. Michael wouldn't want to forget the whole thing ever happened and move on, right?

@James: Fantastic point about Jack being driven crazy by his father. We know this already happened on the island in season 1. And he did reference his dad being still alive. It would make lots of sense.

Any ideas or theories about WHY or HOW Hurley was able to see Mikhail blowing up the looking glass? Is it all part of Charlie haunting Hurley in that flash forward?

And why wasn't the fact that Hurley was a previous mental patient in that hospital mentioned? Did someone cover that up?

@kenny
thats a good point about Mike not wanting it known what happened. I guess i was thinking maybe the freighter had picked them up at some point and that was how they returned to the real world. this would also give walt some insight into the true nature of the people on the boat and perhaps prompt him to contact Locke.
as for the mental hospital didn't big mike say to him "Do you want to go back to the nuts house is that what you want cuz i can make that happen real fast." That would seem to indicate he knew of Hurley's past stint.

I loved Hurley's reaction to the mental institution threat: "THANK YOU!!" and hugs.

@James - I do have to say that I agree with you re: the opening. Nowhere near as diabolic/sinister/mysterious as I'd expect from Lost, and I, too, missed the pop song. Maybe we'll get the sinister opening for Episode 2, which rumor has it focuses on the freighter.

The screen caps seem to confirm that Christian (or at least actor John Terry) is in the rocking chair in Jacob's shack. The two most logical answers would be 1) Christian = Jacob and the eye is Mikhail/Locke/Richard or 2) Christian = physical manifestation of Smokey and Jacob is the eye.

Except for #1, why the hell would Ben ever let Jack go and only want him for surgery if his dad was the Higher Power of the island? I don't care if Locke has communion with the island, if Jacob = Christian, Jack is your #1 prioriety.

But if it's #2, why would Hurley see Christian in the shack and not Charlie or Dave or Libby or anybody else that'd have personal meaing to him (in the way Kate's Horse, Christian, Yemi etc. have appeared)?

Too much to say, now that it's three o'clock and this thread is probably winding down, but I wanted to mention one thing.

In the episode last season where Locke & Ben go to see Jacob, two things appear that you can see if you slowly go through the frames. You see a person standing there (where Locke previously couldn't see "Jacob"), who is presumably Jacob, though you can't really see much because of shadows. But Jacob is there in "human" form.

The second thing you can see is a close-up of an eye. That episode has audio commentary with Damon Lindleof, Carlton Cuse, and Michael Emerson. They specifically point these two things out, and they point out that the eye is not Ben's or Locke's - it's Jacob's.

That was the same eye Hurley saw last night, IMHO.

So, to follow up the thought, Jacob does not = Christian. Jacob and the Christian that was in the shack last night are two different things.

Or to be a little more equivocal, to me at least Jacob and Christian are different. Now, whether that is a "live" Christian or a "dead" Christian/Smokey I have no frakkin clue. I think Chaddog living/dead has some semblance of being right about something...

(That wasn't supposed to be a backhanded compliment, Chaddog. :) I think you're on to something, and are at least partially right.)

@ Sharra, I thought Hurley response to the "threat" of being sent to the mental institution fantastic as well, if he was hoping that the meds would make the visions go away, he was sadly mistaken.

On Kate having a child, I'm on the fence about it. I wouldn't be surprised. I know this hasn't come up yet but I still think something happened to her between tea on the beach with Ben and being put into the bearcage across from Sawyer. As they showed in the clipshow she was very shaken up when she was put in the cave (and why include that if it wasn't meaningful with so much to chose from.) We have never been told or seen what happened in that time. Forced exam, perhaps, maybe something worse? She could have been being used as some sort of guinea pig along with being the "motivation" for Jack.

@antilles - I take all compliments, backhanded or otherwise :-)

As for the shack, antilles, I think you're on to something with the focus of the commentary by Cuse/Lindelof on both the body in the chair AND the eye.

I'm wondering if, as others have pointed out, Christian is NOT Jacob. Maybe Jacob is "the eye" - someone (or something) that sees everything on the island. Christian (or any other form it takes) is the corporeal "foot soldier" of Jacob - a guide that Jacob can send out to lead people in moments of crisis on to the correct path. We've seen this time and time again with visions of dead characters on the island - Christian leading Jack to the caves (the Losties "safe haven") and sending Vincent to awaken Jack and get him to "save" many of the survivors from death (including Rose, Hurley, Claire, etc.); Ben's mom appearing to him to prevent him from running away through the barrier and setting him towards ridding the island of Dharma; even the horse "appearing" to Kate in a moment of emotional crisis.

I think Jacob/the island has the power to "animate" the dead, and use them in real physical power to guide the living on the island to protect the island and themselves. And Charlie (having died on the island) can now be used by the island out in the real world to convince Hurley that "they" need him still.

(While I'm here, I need to extend kudos to Jorge Reyes - a tour-de-force performance last night for the actor who is truly the "heart" of the show. You KNOW that Cuse/Lindelof have been WAITING to use Hurley this way - he was, after all, the first actor cast on the show. I'm SURE they've been building Hurley throughout the show for a purpose, and last night we saw it (or at least it's beginning). Still, GREAT work by Reyes.)

Oops. I mean Jorge Garcia. His "character" is Hugo "Hurley" Reyes.

Hi all,

I've been lurking here for about a year and was finally inspired to post by last night's episode and the great debates I've read. I had a couple of ideas about what we saw last night that I don't think have been brought up yet.

First, regarding Hurley seeing Charlie in the future, my initial thought was that he was another figment of Hurley's imagination (like I assume Dave is...), but that this didn't work because the other patient had seen him. A possibility that I came up with was what that Jack could have already been there watching Hurley, and that is who the other patient saw and pointed out to Hurley, but instead of seeing Jack, Hurley went into his "hallucination" of Charlie. This could also support that the "it" Hurley refers to was in fact sending a vision of Charlie to Hurley to try to convince him to go back, as I would think no one else would be able to see what "it" sent.

Second, regarding who I think is Christian (or at least, someone/something that looks like him) in Jacob's rocking chair, in addition to the 2 possibilities zhyatt suggests, I had also thought that Jacob perhaps was somehow holding captive (depending on how living or dead he is) Christian or his spirit or something like that - seen to us as his body - and that it was in fact Christian that Locke heard saying "help me" during his visit to the cabin, rather than Jacob. This would in some fashion explain why Locke could hear the voice while Ben (who had always been able to hear Jacob) could not - maybe Christian's ghost can only talk to Locke (and Vincent?) for some reason.

Another thing I found interesting about what Hurley saw in the cabin was that the first time you see the rocking chair, I very clearly saw Christian, but the second time they cut back to the chair, Christian's body looked to me to be somewhat shriveled/dead, almost skeletal. After rewinding a few times, I think that it was just the lighting playing tricks on me, but it certainly added to the weirdness/shock factor of the scene.

@Chaddogg I like your ideas about Jacob. I think it's plausible. I'm wondering though, how would he suddenly be able to offer visions to people off the island?

Could we also then assume that Locke was given his legs back by the same force so that he could be a denison of the island? All of these tribulations, between Jack and Locke, could be seen as a test of faith? (This isn't new.) Will it continue to a point where Jack finally does kill Locke (thus solidifying the Cain and Abel metaphor?)

Wow that was such a good episode. My loyalties switched back and forth between Locke and Jack so many times. After Hurley apologized to Jack for not going with him, it occurred to me that Jack is the true hero of the show. He is the "Shepard" of the survivors, if you will.

Locke's loyalty has always been to the island. He obviously believes that the losties each have a purpose to serve on the island. His concern for the losties stems from his concern for the island and its need of the losties.

Jack has no such conflicts. He sees it as his job to get the losties home safely. This makes me think that Locke is going to betray those who followed him (in the interest of the island).

I thought the funniest part of the show was when Ben asked Jack for permission to go with Locke. I laughed so hard my family thought Lost had finally made me lose it.

I was looking at the posts and if we're assuming that Kate has to get back to a child, wouldn't it make sense that Sawyer was in the coffin at the end of season three. Kate and Sawyer already have an explosive relationship. I can totally see him betraying Kate in such a profound way that she would react by not caring about his death. I can also see Jack going to his funeral but not being willing to say that he was Sawyer's friend of family.

@TyrantKing - I don't think Sawyer could be in the coffin...SOMEONE would have come to his funeral, like his daughter, for example.

A lot of people pegged Ben as the person in the coffin...which I suppose could be true. I mean, he lived almost his whole life on the island - it's quite possible that no one would show up to mourn him, simply because no one knew him. Ben's death might send Jack off the deep end, too, particulary if Ben was right all along - they shouldn't have called the freighter, they shouldn't have left the island, etc.

(The same argument, of course, applies to Locke. He has few if any friends or family, and given what we've seen so far this year, neither Jack nor Kate might have been moved to attend his funeral.)

@chaddog- I think you're on to something with the island "animating" the dead to guide them. Perhaps it's simply a manifestation of some sort though?

We've seen this device used before- the first being in Jack's dad in season 1. We see it in the finale as well with Locke and Walt.

I'm curious in the pairings: Locke and Walt, Jack and Christian, Eko and Emi(sp?)

Anyone recall any others?

Anyone else think that the guy who goes to visit Hurley in the mental ward is a character in the same vein as Ms. Hawking?

A sort of temporal watcher?

@Chad&Tyrant-
the thing about it being Ben is that Jack seemed suprised that no one showed up. But since Ben grew up on the island it would make sense that no one would show up to his funeral.

@kennychiwa:
The most obvious Biblical fish reference is that of Jesus instructing the Apostles to be fishers of men--to get other men to do their good work, so to speak. If there was a fish motif last night (I didn't catch it), Charlie could be a fisher of Hugo--reeling him back to the island to do good work.

@carlos: Michael and Waaaaaalt! may be back this season, bit I don't think they'll be on the island but in flashforwards. That says to me that they were't part of the rescued 6.

I don't think Hurley saw Jacob's love shack for the same reason that Charlie didn't really visit hurley in the bin: when Hugo closed his eyes and counted to five they both disappeared. That says to me that they both really weren't there.

And I definitely think that there are folks left alive on the island. Who, I don't know.

And who was in the coffin in last year's finale? My bet is on someone we haven't met yet.

I also thought Charlie was fantastic last night. That was Dominic Monaghan's best scene ever in Lost. It was like everybody's little brother finally "grew up," and was the one imparting wisdom, rather than the one needing guidance. There was a definite change in the nature of the character. Loved it.

After watching the show tonight (I know, I'm late getting to it!) I was really puzzled about one thing. After the porthole was blown open with the grenade and the room filled with water, why didn't Charlie swim out the porthole? It clearly looked big enough .... maybe Charlie did? Maybe he isn't dead?

@WisTim, good question. The answer has to do with the nature of Desmond's visions. So Desmond has a vision in which Charlie swims down to the Looking Glass, flips a switch that turns off a blinking light, the Looking Glass floods, Charlie dies, Claire and baby Aaron get rescued. Desmond explained earlier in season 3 that his visions don't come true unless the events in the vision happen exactly as he saw them happening. So for Claire to be rescued Charlie has to die. Charlie sacrifices himself. Whether or not Clare stepping into the helicopter (the rescue Desmond saw) really leads to their rescue is debatable.

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