Obama Trip Overload

I have a theory too: Normal people who don't pay attention to everything that happens in politics have better things to do.

Concern troll.

Cookie:

Well said.

It may be the only ones expecting a bump before the trip is over are those who expect Instantaneous Everything.

Wait for it…

This is all, of course, speculation. Fine, OK.

But it's not even good speculation.

Well I can tell you I know people who weren't Obama fans who were very impressed by how he's handled himself and his undeniable charisma. (One friend was particularly impressed how the King of Jordan was chauffering him.)

My theory: There is a lag time for polls. It takes time for people to catch up. When he was first being hit with the flip flopper stuff it first didn't matter and then about a week later he dipped. My prediction: Next week, he'll be riding high ...

This election will be decided on economic issues but he had to do this, and so far he's carried it off beautifully.

Obama would have been chastised for not going on the trip so to blame him for "ignoring" domestic issues would be unfair.

Maybe people are just getting sick and tired of his acolytes in the press fawning over his every move and making this into the most important overseas trip since christopher columbus.

Quota filler.

It's been what? 4 days? Perhaps a bit early for "concern" one way or the other.

Also does anyone have a cite for this?
"Lots of speculation on the web"

Joe the only thing in the future I am worried about is the mets bullpen.

"Quota filler."
Yup a little too hard on McCain recently.

Also does anyone have a cite for this?
"Lots of speculation on the web"

Must be the same websites that were supposedly filled with liberal bloggers upset about Obama's supposed move to the middle on Iraq. I could never find any of those either.

It's been what? 4 days?

Isn't this trip, like, still going on? If not... what is KT doing? Did they strap her into some TimeWarnerMoloch holodeck or something?

How about some media needing a pre-emptive anti-Obama narrative. Last week it was what a risk this trip was for Obama because, oh no, he might make a gaffe. This week it's "he's been over there 4 days and, oh no, there isn't a bump in the polls yet."

Oh, brother.

You are reporting on speculation about gossip.

Maybe Obama went on his overseas trip during most popular summer vacation week of the year.

And maybe there hasn't been time for the full effect, yet.

Criminy. Can you wait until all of the facts are in before you make crap up about it?

The WSJ is releasing a poll tonight to see if he's gotten a bump from this trip. Geez. The man is still there! Can't they wait until he comes home or, better yet, give him a week or so? Nah . . .

"Normal people who don't pay attention to everything that happens in politics have better things to do."

Thanks Cookie,

I knew something was wrong with me.

The republican slime machine has locked america into a permanent downward spiral. Enjoy the vertigo people. Irrationality and hate win the day again!!! You have to have citizens who want to be good to have a good country. Too many Americans are indifferent at best or simply get off on being bad people.

Oh well, that's how the American Century crumbles.

Joe,

To add to some of the other commenters. The polls are always a snap shot in time anyway. So even if and when he does get a bump does it really mean all that much this early?

MSNBC teases the results of a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll coming this evening:

With the news that Iraq's prime minister wants the US to set a timetable for withdrawal, 60% of registered voters believe it's a good idea for the US to set such a timetable, while 30% say it's a bad idea.
Twice as many voters agree with Obama and al-Maliki on Iraq than agree with McCain -- after weeks of being buffeted by the McCain message that calling for withdrawal is tantamount to advocating for surrender, defeat, and even dishonor to the troops.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/poll_big_majority_still_wants.php

It's already been said upthread, but the reason it hasn't caused a bump in the polls is it happened over the weekend and most polls take a few days to complete anyway.

What has been accomplished is the lowering of the yammering level over Obama's credentials and an increase in the yammering level over McCain's cluelessness. I think a lot of Villagers are awakening to the realization that McCain really CAN'T keep his story straight from one day to the next and that his conference call participants are just flat-out flaming a$$401es.

Joe,

There is not going to be a bump because after all the "mission impossible" photo ops by Bush most people can now tell the difference between substance and flash.

Increasingly Obama is looking like the American Idol candidate, complete with adoring reporters fawning over him.

By contrast McCain is looking like a grown up, a Harry Truman who can make difficult decisions, humble and patriotic.

Obama reminds of of Bush, especially the early years. I remember the media swooning over Bush during the 2000 election and after September 11, his penchant for grandiosity, egomania, arrogance. All flash, no substance.

Well, I was going to say something snarky about the premature nature of Mr. Klein's poll concerns, but a number of intelligent folks beat me to it.

What's wrong, Joe? Feeling left out of all the overseas fun ?

I agree with Cookie Puss. Moment to moment polling isn't really all that important.

Especially not compared to jellyfish attacks. Chandra Levy, dangerous acquatic life-- it's like 2001 all over again! Wheee!

Oh, and with this post, as a great man once said, "you've covered your a** now."

Isn't this great. Obama was goaded into taking the overseas trip - esp Iraq and Afghanistan. In the best of times that trip would require a minimum of 10 days. But with Israel, Jordan etc added in it looks like 7 days well spent.

Meanwhile our mythical real American (aka a MSM gasbag) wonders why Obama is not getting the price of gas reduced, not starting drilling for oil in ANWR, not stopping a category 2 hurricane and not having coffee with a real American at Joe's Diner (or is it Whiner).

It seems like our Swampers have to get in a daily quota (hit?) of trivia. After Joe's thrashing of Sen McWhine does he feel the need to balance things. You know: on the one hand, etc, etc.

+1 to what Cookie said.

"Conventional Wisdom" is another way of saying "Beltway Group-think" Beltway group-think has been so wrong on too many issues. Regular people (not Broder's definition of regular people) don't really care.

Will there be a oil rig bump?

McCain to counterprogram Obama in Germany with visit to Gulf Coast oil rig

While Barack Obama is speaking about international affairs in Germany before thousands of fans tomorrow, John McCain will be talking about a pressing domestic issue with an equally striking if very different backdrop.

Weather permitting, McCain will helicopter from Louisiana to an oil rig in the Gulf Coast to make the case for expanded off-shore drilling, says a McCain aide.

The GOP nominee will be joined by a small press pool of reporters and photographers on a trek sure to offer memorable images. Because of space constraints, Louisiana Gov. and veep prospect Bobby Jindal will not make the trip.

Since first disclosed Monday, McCain's visit to the state has been shrouded in mystery. Campaign aides have been watching weather patterns, including the path of Hurricane Dolly, closely and are hopeful they can pull off the visit.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0708/McCain_to_counterprogram_Obama_in_Germany_with_visit_to_Gulf_Coast_oil_rig.html?showall

They say "presumptuous".

What they mean is "uppity".

"But I wouldn't be surprised if Obama is paying a price for vamping about overseas while banks are cratering, gas prices soar and people are getting really, really nervous about their futures."

Joe, you are making the mistake all Democrats make. You think people vote based on the issues. They don't. They vote based on perceptions of candidates.

Check the polls. When people are asked who they "agree with" on the issues voters say Obama. When they are asked who they "trust to solve" various problems they say McCain. It has to do with gravitas. McCain has it. Obama is seen as a celebrity. McCain is seen as a grown up who can be trusted with responsibility.

I would suspect that any bounce Obama would get is being counterbalanced by the fact that the media is talking more about how/whether they are giving Obama too much coverage then they are talking about the trip itself. It's the corporate media's way of neutralizing the trip's impact by making the chief narrative not the policy question under dscussion but McCain's alleged victim status this week.

Had the media covered McCain Iraq/Pakistan border gaffe or his surge caused sunni awakening gaffe, there might be more of a bounce.

But so long as the media is trying to turn lemons into lemonade for McCain, Obama is going to have a substantial headwind.

I think he will ultimately benefit from the trip, but it will be later when low-info voters make up their mind and fewer of them will hesitate to vote their economic interests because of concerns about national security. This trip will also help innoculate him in case events make national securty a bigger issue and when the GOP tries the politics of fear.

"It has to do with gravitas. McCain has it."

Especially when he tells those hiLARious jokes about people getting raped and bombed.

Drudge reporting that McCain's most anticipated trip to an Oil Rig has been in fact cancelled due to the stupid Hurricane.

Expect a press release soon saying how much Hurricanes favor and are in love with Obama.

God and Mother Nature have a well-known liberal bias.

I have a theory that every one of your speculations here is totally wrong, founded on stupid assumptions and born of a divorce from the workings of real life so complete you would qualify for electro-shock therapy. But keep trolling, dude!

The trip is helping Obama, and the Republican advantage in paid advertising is helping McCain, and they're largely canceling each other out.

And.... Obama should maybe be a little more subtle about his basketball skills. It was an amazing basket, but in the context of an election contest it can come across as just not very nice, considering his opponent can't brush his hair. I actually don't think there was any subtext - I'd have gone for it if I thought I could make it, and who wouldn't? - but there's a fine line between accenting Obama's athleticism and accenting McCain's POW injuries. The media coverage, and not the Obama campaign, may have made it seem like that line had been crossed.

"The emerging conventional wisdom seems to be that the trip is a bit too grand, too...presumptuous and voters are wary of that."

And this is the conventional wisdom based on... what exactly? This is the absolute worst instinct of journalists, to turn themselves into (extremely) amateur psychologists and "diagnose" the polls.

Another term for it is "throwing sh*t at the wall to see what sticks."

So I guess Joe thinks the American people already believe Obama is President and are saying "Why in tarnation ain't he fixed things yet?"

Of course we all know Mr. and Mrs. USofA are waiting for McCain to stroll around the Washington Mall with a flak jacket on. That's when America can get down to the real business of ignoring its future... and feeling good about it.

This just in; "McCain credits Bush with Dramatic Drop in Oil Prices". Says "I want to be Bush when I grow up". Michael Scherer cries for joy.

At this point, any bump would be based on the mere IDEA that Obama is traveling overseas. Isn't it possible that a plane trip isn't going to make much difference? People want to see what goes on DURING the trip before making any decisions.

That said, in my opinion anyone for whom this trip makes the difference was probably leaning Obama anyway.

What poll (other than those worthless tracking polls -- which do show a bump...but they're worthless) has there been?

There's one tonight from NBC/Wall Street Journal and what has been released hardly seems bad for Obama.

You've got nothing to speculate on Joe, so you speculate anyway.

"- I'd have gone for it if I thought I could make it, and who wouldn't? - but there's a fine line between accenting Obama's athleticism and accenting McCain's POW injuries."

Rose, I hate to break it to you but Obama is not all that athletic. He's thin, can't jump and afraid of contact.

The DEQ has sent out this notice concerning the major oil spill occurring on the Mississippi River in which 9980 barrels of oil were lost:

On July 23, at approximately 2 a.m., a collision between a ship and a barge occurred on the Mississippi River at mile marker 98, near Harahan, splitting the barge in half. The barge was carrying #6 fuel oil and lost all of its contents, estimated at 9980 barrels. The barge came to rest at mile marker 97 at the Crescent City Connection Bridge.

DEQ emergency responders notified all parishes impacted by the release so that they could take action to protect their water intakes. Parishes shut down their intakes and booms have been deployed around the intakes. Booms were also deployed to protect sensitive wildlife habitats and to contain the oil. The Freshwater Diversion Project at Braithwaite has been diverted with containment boom. Clean up contractors are on site and will begin skimming operations to recover the oil.

The real question is why are do we believe polls when individually the polls have not been accurate?

Individual polls have been even worse when not measured very close to an election. Given current technology, believing in the polls is like believing in the tooth fairy.

I'd wait a bit before deciding. After all, the first bit of the trip was over a summer weekend and most folks are not paying attention. There is a considerable lag to due to the time difference before photos are showing up in the newspapers. Besides, most of the cable coverage is spent on casting this as a purely political move on his part.

Obama will never match McCain's numbers on Commander in Chief. Esp with the press forgiving McCain every gaffe. But this moves the ball forward on a big issue so that he can spend the rest of the summer on domestic issues.

I think the reason the polls aren't showing a bump is that it's still way too long before the election. Or, as Clive Crook of the Financial Times put it:

"How does one make sense of this? The simple answer may get me ejected from the guild of political commentators, who have a lot of space to fill between now and November – but I report it nonetheless. It is that these early head-to-head polls and the vast enterprise of political analysis, nit-picking and minute speculation they support, are, to a first order of approximation, worthless."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3bf5c59a-5666-11dd-8686-000077b07658.html

I'm with KathyR, way up there at the top:
You people natter about how Obama might make a gaffe on his grand tour of the Middle East. Then Maliki agrees with him on timetables, McCain agress with him on Afghanistan, he does great (apparently) in Jordan and Jerusalem.

So now we hear about how Obama is partying like a rockstar and how that's bad for him.

What the hell is this sh!t.

straight talk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ieHwOm4ljA&eurl=http://www.eschatonblog.com/

"vamping"

Curious word choice. Does that word mean what you think it means?

McCain is looking like a grown up, a Harry Truman …

Please. Harry Reems, maybe, ****ing up almost everything in sight.

Joe, have YOU been paying attention to Obama on this trip? What is YOUR analysis of his performance?

Because unsupported blather about what one person imagines other people might be thinking is what we unpaid volunteers do, when we're lazy. Otherwise, we do the responsible reporting you're too busy for.

For instance, did you read KT's interview with Obama? Pretty damned impressive. I mean, the man thinks and talks in whole paragraphs. That's substance. What you're peddling is wishful thinking by people who need, for whatever personal reasons, to prop up the bloated corpse that is McCain's candidacy.

It's over. You just don't know it yet.

He meant HST 2008 which, while McCain certainly doesn't look healthy, I felt was going too far.
Shame DonB11!!

Rose, I hate to break it to you but Obama is not all that athletic. He's thin, can't jump and afraid of contact.
Posted by ny nick

And here I've been calling you a petty, ankle-biting crank.

I certainly am Foolish.

Well, what exactly was Senator McCain doing about bank failures and gas prices? Or do we have to ask Phil Gramm, registered bank lobbyist, about that?

DonB11:
It has to do with gravitas. McCain has it.

Unless "gravitas" is a new brand of adult diapers, you are nuts.

The only thing keeping McCain from plunging into Goldwater-blowout territory is the dedicated efforts of the "liberal media" to not report on McCain's daily gaffes.

At least Reagan waited until his second term to go senile.

This is really dumb stuff, Joe. Any bump that he got would most likely be within the margin of error of a typical poll and would likely not be detectable right away.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Obama is paying a price for vamping about overseas while banks are cratering, gas prices soar and people are getting really, really nervous about their futures.

Yep. Sure thing. All the Republican policy chickens coming home to roost, defended by an incoherent, somewhat addled guy playing, by his admission, well out of his league, all this: Bad for Obama.

And what Dirks said. This trip was a positive way of contrasting his foreign policy skills with McCain's for the people on the press plane. He's killed off the McCain's a foreign policy guru by using the different kind of politics he's always talking about. Presenting himself in a positive, and contrasting light, without so much as mentioning his opponent.

"vamping about"?

You're an ass.

Jim,

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. We're focusing on the trivial in this thread. Ankle biting is just more fun than hero worshipping. I could point out the fact that the monument Obama decided to use as a backdrop in Germany instead of the Brandenburg Gate was a favorite of Hitlers who had it moved to its current location but then I would be accused of more ankle biting. If only the entire universe would just fall in line and genuflect at the Obama alter, the world would be a beautiful, peaceful place. A world without wars, without racism, without ankle biters. Our problems would be solved if only we would all bow our heads in honor of the chosen one.

McCain does look rather like Harry Truman. They are both undead, after all.

Maybe we could continue to focus on how McCain has embraced Obama's position on Afghanistan, Maliki has embraced Obama's position on troop drawdowns, and Bush The Appeaser has embraced Obama's position on talking with Iran. Not a bad trend for the guy with no judgement and no experience.

I could point out the fact that the monument Obama decided to use as a backdrop in Germany instead of the Brandenburg Gate was a favorite of Hitlers who had it moved to its current location

Wow. I'm not one who thinks blog comments affect elections, but Hillary Clinton did have some halfwits supporting her. I wonder if there wasn't some connection after all.

Hillary Clinton did have some halfwits supporting her.

Agreed. There was a time when I found Obama supporters to be annoyingly naive in their enthusiasm for the guy. But the Hillary dead-enders put them to shame.

I think it's just a ceiling to Obama's popularity-- he's not going to get more people unless McCain does something that makes himself look really terrible and that really gets reported on. You can't expect Obama to get a polling bump every time he gets up in the morning and flosses his teeth.

If laughing with Petraeus is supposed to give him a bump with racists or something, well, by that logic there should be no racists anymore, since any racist can see black people getting along with white people all the time.

"I could point out the fact that the monument Obama decided to use as a backdrop in Germany instead of the Brandenburg Gate was a favorite of Hitlers who had it moved to its current location

Wow. I'm not one who thinks blog comments affect elections, but Hillary Clinton did have some halfwits supporting her. I wonder if there wasn't some connection after all."

Are you saying it's not true or are you again offended at the idea other don't feel the same tingle in the pants that you do when you here Barack's name?

at the idea other don't feel the same tingle in the pants that you do when you here Barack's name?

Your little brain actually appears to be melting. Is it hot in NY?

Please don't blame NY.

but there's a fine line between accenting Obama's athleticism and accenting McCain's POW injuries.

Rose, you're the trolliest. You're trollier-than-thou. Tro-tro-tro-tro-tro-troller. A high troller. A troller coaster. &c.

I could point out the fact that the monument Obama decided to use as a backdrop in Germany instead of the Brandenburg Gate was a favorite of Hitlers who had it moved to its current location but then I would be accused of more ankle biting.

For a "lifelong Democrat," Nick, you sure love you some Republican talking points.

JK: Lots of speculation on the web, and in whispering circles, about why Obama's foreign trip...hasn't resulted in a polling bump. The emerging conventional wisdom seems to be that the trip is a bit too grand, too...presumptuous...

Asked and answered, Joe.

Is it possible that the conventional whisperers who are trying to label Obama as "The Presumptuous Messianic Nominee Who Thinks He is Already President" are supressing his polling numbers?

But I have another theory. People may be thinking, what on earth is Obama doing over there when we have so many problems back home?

Nah, but it's a slightly better theory than the ongoing arrogance label Obama keeps getting smeared with.

My theory? Thanks for asking, Joe! My theory states that we've pretty much decided who we are going to vote for come November, and - barring a big slip, big smear, or a sea change in media coverage - you're not going to see much movement in the polling before the election.

Geez...
Give it time to sink in.

Joe, you are so addicted to news cycles and instant gratification...let the American people get there on their own timetable.

Obama's numbers will edge up to a double digit lead within the next two weeks.

SS101

I think Casey & TeresaKopec nailed it. It's the middle of summer. It's camp/beach/tan/family roadtrip season, not learn-something-new-about-the-candidate-and-substantively-alter-your-political-viewpoint season.

Can we really say there hasn't been a bump, yet? I've only really been aware of the trip for like a day or two.

I agree with SS101. Actually, I have been mightily impressed with the sheer ferocity of McCain's efforts to humiliate himself and erase all the positive associations of his reputation. Aside from simply rude smears, lies, embarrassing gaffes, whining childish complaining and flat-out cluelessness, now McCain's oil platform photo-op has been upstaged by a freaking oil spill! Talentlessness complemented by bad karma has to be bad mojo for a politician.

Double digits in two weeks.

And Memekiller FTW!

If positions were reversed, rest assured that our media would be howling bloody murder at anybody stupid enough to wonder why McCain's poll numbers hadn't gotten a bounce yet; I mean, the trip has, like, just barely even started!

Acid J, thanks for taking my comments totally out of context.

ny nick, I get that you don't like Obama. But as a lifelong Democrat you can't like McCain. You must actually agree with Obama far more than McCain. So why are you so extreme in your comments?

space and Jim, Foolish Literalist: Don't take the bait and trash HRC supporters because of something one commenter says! It's not helpful.

Today, before his throng of dupes, Barack Obama alleged: "Now, in terms of knowing my commitments, you don't have to just look at my words, you can look at my deeds. Just this past week, we passed out of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee, which is my committee, a bill to call for divestment from Iran, as a way of ratcheting up the pressure to ensure that they don't obtain a nuclear weapon."

"[T]he U.S. Senate Banking Committee, which is [Obama's] committee"? Obama is not a member of the Banking Committee. Give Obama credit, though, for knowing his audience of Obama campaign spokespeople (aka the entire American press corps). Not a single adoring supporter in the American press corps will point out the fact that Obama is not a member of the Banking Committee.

Rose:

I am well aware that both candidates had literally millions of supporters who were not irrationally devoted nor petulent whiners. Sadly there were -- and in Hillary's case still are -- a vocal few who made the rest look bad.

The funniest thing about many of the Hillary dead-enders is that they ostensibly attack Obama from a progressive standpoint, but end up tossing out blatant, wingnutty talking points.

Good grief! Why does it have to be one or the other? Can't Senator Obama re-establish positive relationships with our allies abroad and then come back here and deal with our domestic problems? He's doomed if he does and doomed if he doesn't.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? What kind of relevant polls could he possibly be failing to get a bump in? HE'S NOT EVEN BACK YET. Give Americans some time to evaluate it before you start the spin and daft pontification. It's the media that's being frenetic and "presumptuous," not the people.

Note to Joe: Calm down! We're simply trying to respond to conversations we've seen online.

Dufus.

Note to Joe: Calm down! We're simply trying to respond to conversations we've seen online.

What comments online? Here we go again with the innocuous "some people say" or "many people believe." Where did you see it? Who said what?

Stop hiding behind this veil of everybody or some people. It is not good journalism...it is even worse blogging.

Let's move on to discuss McCain giving credit to Bush for bringing oil prices down. Joe, you're the only one who will discuss it. AMC and MS have had too much BBQ.

Well, when you have to dash off something in a hurry, you go with your strengths. Luckily, high-school cheerleader gossip is Mr. Klein's Special Gift, so it's lucky he's got this space to fill. What a great job!
Plus, it gives plenty of bored folks (like me at the moment) entertainment and 3-stooges-like bonding.

"Can we really say there hasn't been a bump, yet? I've only really been aware of the trip for like a day or two." - Memekiller

We're fine, Joe. In fact, we're ahead of you. We've been talking about "the fullness of time" for most of this thread. And few of us, I think (comments? Please?), are as focused (obsessed?) with polls as you appear to be.

Thanks for reading and responding to comments, Joe! No one thinks that this is a big deal, I don't think.

I haven't seen these conversations online about the poll numbers, but hey, I'm just some guy with a silly pseudonym.

Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk! Bryan gets a wedgie!

Bonding's cool too.

Joe:

Your post, even with addendum, suggests you still think it matters a lot whether Obama's poll numbers go higher in the fourth week of July rather than the first week of August – or at least it matters that a few unknowns are raising the question contrary to any reason.

I don't get it. I don't think it's even reasonable speculation. It's about as useful as concern that the Yankees haven't beaten the Red Sox – or vice versa – in the series to be played this weekend.

Joe:

Thanks so much for responding to commentary; it is always greatly appreciated.

"and I was simply trying to respond to conversations I've seen online."

What does that even mean? I am seriously curious where people are fretting (celebrating?) overnight poll numbers.

Or....

a) We're too damn busy living real lives to care until say, October???

b)or...everyone' pretty much made up their mind anyway and there's really only 10% or so of the electorate at best that's really up for grabs. Reps are gonna vote Rep, Dems are gonna vote Dem, Independents have largely settled in, but there's still the portion of them that hasn't made up it's mind...and it represents only 10% of the total...so...see a) above...

c) only you MSM types really get off on all this stuff in all its mind-bending, grinding minutiae ("my god, Obama had felafel and tabbaloueh for lunch; clearly he leans toward the Palestinian position over the Israelis!"), in other words...see a) above!

...get a real life, Joe, AMC, Jay, etc or at least understand that it's not the Apocalypse, Armageddon, End-Times, etc.

oh...btw, the Reason why Obama is succeeding is this: he knows a) above...

Why is Joe sounding like a 911 operator. "I need you to calm down sir." "I'm calm." "Sir, again please calm down so we get some help to your location." "Okay."

I'm guessing the reason that the rabble (that's us) get frustrated with JK is that he is capable of decent analysis and I think better than average mid east reporting.
But then he just mails something in, usually in the vein of Concern Trolling for Democrat and the disconnect is hard to swallow.

Another good one, Joe!

People might figure that I've become a Joe fan, but I am finding most of the best blogs are yours.

I agree with most everyone else that there is an inertia here in the polling, and it's really hard to say what's going on there.

But given the magnitude of the stupidity being openly flayed by some of the R types around here, and the fact that McCain isn't helping himself one bit, actual erosion of the Republican base may not be far off...

Eventually, as Northern Observer pointed out, Americans will have to start tossing rhetoric aside and decide what's best for this country - and the dittoheads DON'T have the solution!

Joe, your argument was undercut by the fact that McCain was supposed to get on the economy message today but was forced talk foreign policy and to respond to events taking place around Obama. I just saw a clip of McCain standing in the dairy aisle, not talking about the price of milk, but about the surge.

Thanks Cinc I think I saw the same clip and couldn't for the life of me figure what he was saying.

Thanks for responding to commentary Joe. And it's true that this is a real issue - we don't want to be alarmist or ignore warning signs.

You slay me Rose.

Now that the latest NBC/WSJ poll shows Obama ahead of McCain 47-41 can we speculate on how well the trip has helped Obama in his national standing, especially with 60% of Americans favoring a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq? Let's speculate on the speculation! Why not?

Note to Commenters: Calm down!

Joe,

If you want your commenters to stop their strenous objections to your questionable reporting on the conclusions you have drawn based on speculative gossip, then stop writing about utterly asinine opinions allegedly held by actual people on mystery blogs you have been reading.

If you are reading this on blogs, then LINK TO THE BLOG.

Has it occurred to you that everyone thinks you are full of crap because you don't put links in you pieces that relate to your conclusions?

Add links, and you will get a far more reasoned and reasonable response to your posts. I guarantee it.

People can discuss the facts and what they might concluded about them, and how that differs or agrees with your conclusions. Absent facts, people will argue opinion, which is has a annoying tendency to break down community respect quickly, and respect for you even quicker. You, Joe, quickly becomes the one target we can all agree about rather quickly.

That's not a positive development.

Having everyone writing a crazed post to you from both sides is not a definition of success as a blogger or a journalist. It simply isn't, and I have noticed this folie a deux among reporters that somehow pissing off both sides means you've done a good job.

That's incorrect.

Getting both sides to engage in respectful dialogue is what results from good blogging or good writing or good reporting of any kind.

Really, ladies and gentlemen, this IS absurd. It has gotten to the point where we're being bombarded with this man's every move. There is so much more going on in the world than his foreign trip. I don't mind that the press prefers him to McCain; I think we're all used to it by now. But I would simply like to read an issue of TIME or Newsweek or, for that matter, ANYTHING, just to get a reprieve from such vapid coverage. If you're going to sleep with the candidate, please close the shutters and let us get on with our pursuit of world happenings.

It would be quite unfortunate if your initial sentiments work their way into the CW, Joe. I think you're wrong in the initial sentiments, but I think you were right in the update. At a minimum, the new NBC/WSJ poll suggests that it hasn't hurt him. Common sense suggests that the particular visits to Iraq, Afghanistan, and Israel can only help.

I also think it will ultimately pay off, even if there's no immediate bump in the polls. [Obama has had a slight uptick in the tracking polls.] Overcoming the lingering voter doubts will take time... It may be that this trip has allowed Obama to effectively lay the seeds to reap a bountiful harvest in the fall. Hopefully, the talking heads will keep that in mind.

Joe, are u the slightest bit embaressed by the extreme bias going on in this election..heck..its fact..obama gets 87% positive covergae vs. mcCain 47%...I predict backlash against MSM for the blatant bias...I cant beleive Obama is not urther ahead...No bias goign on right,...what bias...NY times prints obamas op ed..but rejects mCCains..no wander profits r down 87%

P-NNTO, as I said in my first post I think the trip is helping him. Just to be clear, I don't think Obama is "vamping." And the "presumptuous" argument is ridiculous, although to be fair to Joe he does acknowledge that. Also I don't think people resent the fact that Obama is paying attention to foreign relations - that's his job, he's running for President.

The warning sign is the gap in paid advertising and the subtle race based attacks. Maybe the lack of positive bounce and in some cases negative bounce is merely because of the media's "will he make a gaffe?" obsession which has apparently prevented them from covering McCain's near daily gaffes. Or maybe it's because the trip just started and people aren't really paying attention to politics.

Or maybe it's because the Republicans are outspending the Democrats on paid advertising and making their "Obama doesn't want what's best for America," attacks.

But I can see that perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my earlier post. In isolation a few days of static tracking polls is not a real issue. However static tracking polls while Obama's trip is going perfectly and he's being outspent on paid advertising - which better targets low-information undecided voters than media coverage - is a real issue.

I agree with some other commenters that this will pay dividends later, and also that many people are just not paying attention yet, but Obama really needs to go on the offensive with regards to Iraq, Afghanistan, and, well, just about everything domestic. McCain has been dominating the coverage with the surge recently; Obama needs to remind voters that McCain has been wrong on virtually everything else concerning Iraq: The decision to go to war, WMD, that the war would be over quickly, that the streets were safe to walk, permanent bases, Iran supporting al Qaeda, Iraq just like South Korea, etc., etc.

donovong:
".. What's wrong, Joe? Feeling left out of all the overseas fun ?
Maybe Joe will get his chance at the fun oversees.
McCurmudgeon has been whining and chaffing at the bait while Sen Obama is over there.
Perhaps after the Rep convention McNasty will want his own foreign trip - complete with the Kings driving him to the airports a-smiling, strolls around ancient Roman ruins AND BBQ-fed reporters complaining about warm sodas. Maybe GWBush will insist on McPhony upstaging Sen Obama by giving his speech at the darn Brandenburg, eh, entrance .. that all Germans will (be required to) attend.

And to show that he is still bouncy, McGrumpy will keep 16-hour days (or even longer) for the entire four weeks of the trip around Europe, Asia and the Pakistan-Afghan border.
Top that, three-point show-off Obama!

And Joe will be there to keep us glued to our PCs breathlessly reading about McCain's feats.

The big thing that really is annoying is that WE are paying for this trip. He says it's for his Senate Foreign Relations committee status and that alone is insulting that we should believe this? Also, he chairs a subcommitttee in Senate Foreign Relations which he never once ever called a meeting - ever! And he's supposed to come back and lecture us about the economy? Looks to me like he doesn't know much about it.....

mslady,
His subcommittee covers Afghanistan and is part of one on Europe, so it certainly makes sense for him to visit those countries. How many trips on our expense has McCain taken abroad? And McCain doesn't attend those meetings either.

However little he may know about the economy, it's certainly more than McCain, who has admitted that he doesn't know much about economics.

Have you forgotten that while the pool reporters are making midnight baggage checks in Jerusalem and Amman, the rest of America is on SUMMER VACATION! No one's at home to answer the pollsters' phone calls and, although many of us are impressed by Obama's performance, we already knew he's not an idiot. Besides, something's burning on the grill!!!!

Rose,

My comments are far from extreme. They may seem so to some who can't imagine how anyone could ever have anything bad to say about the great and wonderful Obama. I merely pointed out that Obama is not what one would call athletic. If that is what constitutes "extreme" in your view, I am sorry.
My guess is, at some point after Obama is elected, you may hear other people say even more hurtful things about him. What then?

"Really, ladies and gentlemen, this IS absurd. It has gotten to the point where we're being bombarded with this man's every move."

Careful, the thought police here don't like that kind of talk. They adhere to a strict hear no evil, see no evil policy when it comes to Obama. There is no such thing in their world as too much fawning coverage of Barack.

Paul Dirks,

"What has been accomplished is the lowering of the yammering level over Obama's credentials..."

How does this trip change his credentials?

Obama will win the popularity contest, hands down. Especially with the media and cheerleaders like Klein. (Anyone seen the pic on Drudge of the smiling, swooning reporters on the plane with him?)

The American people don't want a celebrity as president, they will vote for the right person to be commander-in-chief this fall- John McCain.

I think that Obama is looking very, very young, almost too young on this trip. I don't know if it is just that everyone he stands next to is so much older, but he kind of looks like a "kid" in that setting. I know he is cool, and hip but I am not so sure that is how you want to come across.

I've got an idea. Since the media has already decided that Obama is the next president, why doesn't McCain just stand down now, we cancel the fall elections and save the American taxpayer undoubted billions of dollars cost for a completely unnecessary process -- voila -- overload problem solved!

Joe Klein obviously speaks for himself. Therefore he is a racist for indirectly suggesting if you don't vote for Obama you are a racist.

I might have gained some respect for Obama if he had gone on an actual fact-finding mission rather than a Mideast/Europe campaign complete with hundreds of MSM, handbills advertising his speech to his German contingent, and of course, the speech itself. His few days "overseas" did nothing to enhance his lack of foreign affairs experience. It only provided photo ops, an opportunity for Obama to pussyfoot around the surge's success, and a chance for him to pretend he heads the Senate's banking committee. Who is this charletan and why does anyone support him?

Let's face it. Obama could slap a child senseless in public and the liberal media would find a way to rationalize, downplay and pretend it didn't happen. They pulled this crap in 1992 with Bill Clinton and they have done it ever since. Unfortunately, it will backfire on them this time. Even the talk show hosts are on the bandwagon. It's ridiculous that we can't even make fun of this guy because it would be RACIST! No wonder other countries think we're idiots.

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