Obama Says This Hope Stuff Only Goes So Far

Well good for him. McCain will probably release a flip flopper statement is a few.

Are you making fun of this KT? He's uniquely able to deliver this message, and it's an important one. Way too many young black men think they can win tournaments like sport or entertainment, rather than slog their way through the hard way. Harder than it should be, and harder than it is for white kids, but it is the only reliable way.

Yo, KT, since you're covering campaign stops: here's one where McGrouchy gets confused and says something that is factually wrong, if not an outright lie.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/7/8/152019/2653

(and like JayAckroyd, I don't quite get what you're trying to say here about Obama)

8:00PM (UPN) '44 Wright Way' - Flip McCutcheon (former Democratic Party presumptive nominee Barack Obama) counsels a student (Vern Troyer) that he's not good enough to make it in the NBA. (Repeat).

Meanwhile, back in the land of things that matter, both Obama and McCain are speaking to a Hispanic group whose national treasurer said "this is our land... the border crossed us".

Maybe McCain should be asked about that quote at the next BBQ.

I'm not sure I understand the headline.

Blogging from India in your future?

Copyediting? Ship the Work Out to India
Not far from New Delhi, Mindworks now has eight overseas clients, and it's mounting a big effort to go after more U.S. publications

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jul2008/gb2008078_678274.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_news+%2B+analysis

Jim, FL,

I thought he handled that pretty well, actually. He got called out on a lie--the kind of lie he frequently tells, but he gave a coherent, if fuzzy, justification for his position.

I found it interesting, on the substance, that at least one non-com comment I read (I think it was grysgt) didn't like the transferability of benefits because there already is, IIRC, abuse of benefits by spouses who get tired of waiting.

I think this distrust of reporters is officially going too far.

Obama is an excellent role model and I have no doubt that ABC and KT have simply taken an opportunity to highlight the fact.

How people react to the news reflects far more on the recipient than it does the messenger.

jackroyd,

Uniquely able to deliver this message? Please, hasn't Dr. Huxtable been saying the exact same thing for twenty years? Hasn't everyone? What makes his message more formidable than that of every other black leader in the last half century? Or Clay Aiken for that matter?

Just confused by the headline Paul.

Again, I take it at face value. Hope only goes so far, you have to work for the rest.

It's a positive message.

Karen - I know we quite often miss your irony here in the Swamp, but unless you're just trying to paraphrase ABC's headline (Obama slams hoop dreams) I, too, am not certain about your headline.

In fact, I think Barack is not saying hope goes only so far. He's talking to kids who have no hope that there's any other way for them to make a living or a life, who think the deck is so stacked against them that they have to luck out or rely on their street smarts in the street. He's the embodiment, of course, that hope can take you far, even if you're a black kid. The hope comes with hard work, but where, where, is he saying anything about hope being useless? I swear sometimes I think that if Barack were to say the grass is green some wag would write a headline that said "Obama says grass is not blue," or if he says the sky is blue, someone will say "Obama claims sky is Democratic."

Jay- I was referring to McCain's little tantrum toward the end, where he claims to have the support of every major veteran's group. A weaselly hedge, to be sure. But he has notably lukewarm support from IAVA and Vietnam Veterans of America.

NYNick: Clay Aiken?

oops - forgot to end the bold tag after "not saying." didn't mean to scream

ny nick--

I did indeed think of Cosby, but IMO he has a get offa my lawn old man quality to have much impact on the current generation, while Obama is young, vibrant and, um, not someone who won the entertainment tournament, and has been, uniquely, nominated to be president.

ny nick. You serious? Dr. Huxtable was a tv character. Obama's message is "more formidable" because he's actually achieved a position of standing that no black person has before.

"Major Veterans Groups"="Veterans Groups who have endorsed McCain"

What makes his message more formidable than that of every other black leader in the last half century?

The last time I checked he was the presumptive Democtratic nominee for the office of President of The United States. Say what you will, that certainly adds a little sparkle to just about ANY resume....

KT here--

Jayack et al, I'm not making fun of the message. I was just looking for a fun headline to put on it. In fact, I wish Obama would come to my house and deliver the same message to Swampkid #2 about his plans to become a stand-up comedian.

"You are over-rated in your own mind" Who among us hasn't heard a version of that at some point?
Okay maybe just me.

Nice piece KT although this isn't the first time Obama has delivered that kind of message.

Especially if he has your sense of humor KT... I kid, i kid :P

on topic though, I think his message of hard truth but work hard and you may make something out of yourself resonates well.

Cross post from another thread.

By the way. Is anyone going to ask McCain how he plans on refining his Iraq position?
Now that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has said he would like to set a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops. And is under increasing pressure at home to show that he is not a puppet of the United States.

I have even heard how "unpatriotic" Malki will look if he does not stand firm for Iraqi "sovereignty" and stand up to the United states..

KT here--

Jayack et al: In case that wasn't clear enough--one of the criticisms of Obama is that he is all about fuzzy idealistic stuff. I thought this was a terrific thing for him to be saying, which is why I highlighted it.

Which reminds me of the only t-shirt I have purchased this campaign season. I was one made up by the network camera guys on the Obama plane, and it has his logo over the word "CHOPE."

I am actually with the McCain campaign today, but haven't heard the candidate do anything more than give a speech to LULAC. Am hoping to have a chance to ask him about the Iraqis wanting timetables. And you conspiriatorially minded Swampfolk will be happy to hear that I have been consigned to Row 14 on the plane.

about his plans to become a stand-up comedian.

Tell him to never give up on his dreams, but ALWAYS have a back-up plan.

That and a good education comes in handy, no matter where you end up!

I wish Obama would come to my house and deliver the same message to Swampkid #2 about his plans to become a stand-up comedian.

I have a nephew, at Princeton of all places, who thinks he can make his way in high stakes poker.

And you conspiriatorially minded Swampfolk will be happy to hear that I have been consigned to Row 14 on the plane.

Middle seat, aisle or window?

KT,

Is that the new plane? If it is please make sure its on the ground before you ask about the time tables. Thanks.

It's not a conspiracy when it's a campaign's doings. It would be great if you could get to him on Iraqi sovereignty and timelines. Do you have the 2004 quote when he said the US should leave if asked?

I hope you have a less eventful flight than the Obama camp had yesterday.

KT here--

I took the window.

Jim - As for the lie, I assume you were referring to the part where he claims to have a perfect rating from all veterans groups?

jayackroyd,

Bush said the same thing in 2007 didn't he?

KT you can mock Obama all you want but his audience gave him a standing ovation for his tough love approach to African American youths living in the inner city...These are children who drops out of school, with hopes of becoming a hip hop stars and when that dream fades they have nothing left to hold onto... sadly most of them end up in jail. Hence Obama should be applauded not mocked for taking the bull by the horn... So you can mock him all you want but in past Obama has rightly stated that “Hope is not blind optimism. Hope is not ignorance of the difficulties of the task ahead or the hurdles that stand in your way… It’s just the opposite." More than anything these children need a dose of reality and that is what Obama is doing.

Karen - Sorry you suffer for being a journalist. It doesn't seem so very long ago that we were all a little more light-hearted around here, and took if for granted that you were well-meaning. I'm certainly happy to do that, because you are.

KT, you're right. This is silliness on Barry's part. It's one thing coming from a legend like Bill Cosby, another coming from a punk like Barry.

stan--KT is not mocking.

Any truth to the story that Obama will give his acceptance speech outdoors at the INVESCO Field in Colorado in front of 76,000 people?

Yes, CMR. Quite a change from the convention floor, no? There are times I think that Obama will prove as innovative as Nixon and Reagan in using the current communication technologies.

oh well i am too late as you have already made a clarification

Move over, Simon Cowell...

But seriously, it's a good message; not necessarily original, but necessary.

jayackroyd...yeah i was late in reading her clarification my bad

Remember the dozens of news stories about how bad a bowler Obama is? (Not that I want them pushing that idiocy on McCain. I'm sure his arms are too damaged to do well at that game, and it's such a stupid notion anyway, that candidates have to be good bowlers. I think that's some David Brooks idea about what the hoi polloi are like. "I remember Fred Flintstone bowled! Real Americans must bowl! Oh, good, I can write a book about how bowling is America. What's bowling again? Never mind. I don't have to KNOW anything to bloviate in my usual best-selling fashion! I just have to watch lots of TV!)

Anyway, Obama is actually a good basketball player, but the press went to town on the bowling. It was another one of those weird media obsessions that doesn't make any sense... well, it does I guess if the aim of the media is to get another "Dukakis in a tank" moment. And that does make their year, I suppose.

mine too. Paul D may be right. We be super-sensitized.

Paul D may be right. We be super-sensitized...

I still have quite vivid memories of this:

It’s hard to know which was worse about Barack Obama's dismissal of small-town voters as narrow-minded, churchgoing gun nuts: the original arrogance of his remarks or his repeated attempts to explain them.”

But I still insist on treating each post on a case by case basis....except Scherer's.

It's perfectly legitimate to consider his work as a whole....

Thanks KT, good to see Obama reaching out to kids in a way that will probably resonate with them. And thanks for not using a basketball cliche in the title (per ABC: "slams" hoop dreams, ughh).

Also, be careful- if you ask the questions shown here they may move your seat next to the airplane's bathroom.

karen tumulty writes: I am actually with the McCain campaign today, but haven't heard the candidate do anything more than give a speech to LULAC. Am hoping to have a chance to ask him about the Iraqis wanting timetables.

Uh, maybe you should ask him why he gave a speech to LULAC in the first place?

Consider this quote from their national treasurer:

"We must not sell out, and we must fight for the rights of our people that have been here! ...This is our land and we're going to fight for just and humane comprehensive immigration reform!... ...We did not cross the border, the border crossed us."

Now, what sort of U.S. Senators would speak to a group like that?

To recap: read McCain that quote, and ask him what he was thinking.

McCain's response to Obama on this issue delivered to the 50+ Baby Boomers:

Maybe some of you think you are going to retire in comfort, which you are not because you will have no 401K after the stock market crashes due to the Bush McCain economic plan. Take the safe, smart course of action and stay in school no your ......... oh yeah .... stay in your job! Damn teleprompter!

Some of you are depending on social security in your retirement years, which I am working hard to downsize or eliminate, so I urge you to stay in your job and work hard until someone fires you or you die at your desk.

Look a comfortable retirement is not for everyone. I know you think its your future, but you're probably overrated in your own mind. You will not be able to retire.

Well it appears the WP has been trying to get McCain's camp to respond for 2 days on Maliki and so far....They got nothin. Good luck Karen.

Over the past two days, The Washington Post has been pushing the McCain campaign to respond to Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's suggestion that the U.S. establish a timetable for withdrawal. And they're not getting much response:

McCain was silent on the comments Monday. But today, his top foreign policy adviser declined to criticize Maliki or distance McCain from him. And they sought to portray Maliki's comments as consistent with the Republican nominee's long-standing position.

.....

On Tuesday, McCain's campaign declined to respond directly to the question of whether he now supports the idea of setting a date for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from the country.[indent]

The Obama campaign piles on, pointing to an April 2004 Council of Foreign Relations event where McCain was asked what would happen if a sovereign Iraqi government emerged and asked America to leave and he responded, "Well, if that scenario evolves than I think it's obvious that we would have to leave because -- if it was an elected government of Iraq, and we've been asked to leave other places in the world."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

Obama is in like Flynn if he gets looked at like Heathcliff Huxtable. Dr. Huxtable beats Matlock in the ratings.

ny nick, I'm going to need an explanation on that Clay Aiken reference.

KT, trying to be a stand-up comedian isn't so bad. I know a few stand-up comedians and learning about any field that demands so much toughness and originality is probably a good thing. And it's also a field where a good education and a broad knowledge base really help... Basically, at least it's not high stakes poker. (Sorry jayackroyd!)

Oh dear lord. Obama is now moving from a less than one term Senator, to the newest sage of American advice columnist. When will the Poor Barak Almanac be in print?

Obama's advice for anyone should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt, and then you should consider it a potential FLIP FLOP!

I am waiting for him to pronounce that he will be able to cast out the demons and walk on water, now that will be a Ripley's Believe it or NOT moment.

Just get back on track, Barack. This impresses no one. It's not impressing white voters. They don't care that you're "standing up to the black community."

Run for president already and end this crap. A recent poll on this website showed 82% of the people think we should set a timetable on withdrawing troops from Iraq.

What are you talking about? Young black teenagers not being rappers or making the NBA. Do you really think anyone's paying attention? Do you really think this helps you anywhere? Back to the issues, please, Senator.

Obama has been delivering tough messages to core constituencies for quite some time. One might even say that he has been delivering 'straight talk'. This type of behavior could make him a 'maverick' among his party.

This is what makes me think that we are in bizarro world:

Barack Obama is portrayed as the Manchurian Candidate (a prisoner of war in a communist, asian nation who returns to America as a hero, parlays that experience into a career in politics only to have his 'programming' kick in).

John McCain is portrayed as a Maverick despite his inability to say or do anything substantially different from the over-heated fever dreams of the far-right fringe elements of the GOP base.

Why is it that whenever the GOP is guilty of something they are first to accuse the Dems of doing it?

"John McCain is portrayed as a Maverick despite his inability to say or do anything substantially different from the over-heated fever dreams of the far-right fringe elements of the GOP base."

Terrapinion,

I have a hard time when I watch McCain speak believing that he actually believes in most of the things he is saying. Personally to me it looks like he saying a lot of stuff he is being forced to say to court bring his base home.

Rustydog - I ask this in actual sincerity: What can you possibly find wrong with what Barack Obama said to those young kids?

You and I have had our back and forths in the past but I get the impression that you are an actual person and not a made-up troll persona. But your insistence upon finding negative things to say about anything done by a democrat or Barack Obama threatens to put you in the category of unreasonable people. Kool-Aid comes in all kinds of flavors.

I can honestly say that I would vote for John McCain if he had presented himself - and his party - in a much more reasonable way. And when he says something that is reasonable and true then I will give him credit for it. When, and if, it happens.

So, how about? Is it not possible that Barack Obama was doing the right thing in saying what he said? Is it not possible hat he was saying what a great many white politicians would like to say? What you would like to say?

Well said, Terrapinion. Bizarro world indeed. We're through the looking glass, people.

GySgt213 - You wrote: "I have a hard time when I watch McCain speak believing that he actually believes in most of the things he is saying."

I hear ya, Gunny. I think the same thing - at least, the part of me that wants to respect him thinks that. Isn't that odd? I am hoping that he is lying so that I can maintain my respect for him!

The other thing that bothers me is that most of the McCain-loving media hopes for the same thing. They excuse a Republican - and even praise him - for lying to the GOP base but they criticize a Democrat unless he talks tough or stiff-arms the Democratic base.

And to top it all off, the media does not appear to have learned the lesson that Bush taught them: that even though they call themselves 'compassionate' or 'maverick' they are still the same old conservatives. The media was duped by Bush into thinking that Bush was going to be some kind of 'new conservative' who would govern from the center. And it looks like they are falling for it again with their unspoken hopes that McCain is lying when he panders to the extremist GOP base.

A kind of off topic observation based on Julian Epstein's appearance on MSNBC last night during the Dan Abrams show.

Why did the media scream at Clinton and his peeps to testify in front of congress all the time, and don't do the same to Bush flunkies?

Seriously. How many pundits demanded that Clinton resign over his hummer who have not even said one word about Harriet Meiers and Rove refusing to comply with subpoenas over matters like vote rigging, political prosecutions. Sure there wasn't a blue dress involved, but isn't it at least as important?

Oh, and a prediction. If the democrats win the house, senate, and white house, David Broder and practitioners of high broderism will demand that they include the Republicans in all policy making. They never demanded the Republicans respect a democratic minority, but that is totally different.

Anyone every wonder why McCain never has to talk about his military service or why he is considered such a maverick?

Clasic inside the beltway Broder wisdom that's why.

"but McCain is a strong favorite on national security and terrorism. The former POW's personal appeal looms as the strongest barrier to the Democratic victory indicated by the towering majorities that disapprove of President Bush (68 percent) and that fear the country is headed seriously on the wrong track (84 percent).

McCain benefits from a long-established reputation as a man who says what he believes. His shifts in position that have occurred in this campaign seem not to have damaged that aura. Obama is much newer to most voters, less familiar and more dependent on the impressions he is only now creating.

That is why a pair of strategy decisions made in the past two weeks could prove troublesome for him. The first was Obama's turning down McCain's invitation to join him in a series of town hall meetings where they would appear together and answer questions from real voters -- without a formal agenda, press panel or professional interviewers.

Obama's manager initially called the idea "appealing," but nine days later, when David Plouffe got around to responding, he countered with something quite different from the 10 informal discussions McCain proposed holding before the late-summer nominating conventions. Plouffe said that in addition to the three traditional debates under official sponsorship later in the fall, there could be only two others -- one on economics on July 4 and another on foreign policy in August.

The McCain side said that few Americans would sacrifice their Independence Day holiday to watch a debate and reiterated its offer to meet Obama anywhere he wanted on any of the next 10 Thursdays."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/20/AR2008062002275.html

Terrapinion: Rusty can't admit that BHO might be right on any given occasion because that might lend weight to the notion that BHO is actually better for the Country than McCain.

See, Rusty is afraid. As a small-minded bigot, he's terrified - of what? oh, just about everything: black men commingling with white women; dark-skinned men with turbans popping out around the corner, shooting him with kalishnikovs; Bigfoot coming after his stamp collection; etc - and BHO is not the strong, "strip our rights away for the sake of our safety" authoritarian figure that will protect Rusty from reality. Unlike McCain. McCain might continue the treasonous abuses of our Constitution - he is Republican, after all - but Rusty can sleep peacefully at night knowing that he doesn't have to worry about his own safety. Not being much of an American in the first place, Rusty's happy with that trade-off.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation/story/597624.html

Very underplayed story here.

The Bush administration is refusing to allow the lawyers for the Guantanamo suspects to get paid because the lawyers are "assisting terrorists".

Even though they have not even been convicted by the kangaroo military tribunals and should be considered innocent under the law, apparently they aren't entitled to have lawyers who earn billable hours to defend them.

Maybe we can eliminate all defense lawyers this way! Their clients are obviously guilty so nobody can hire an attorney for them, because that will help evil doers!

Again, perhaps if one of these Bush administration officials were getting a blow job while denying these suspects adequate defense, cable tv would care.

Wow, KT, it's a good thing he didn't actually say that line about hope, since he was speaking in Georgia, cause he'd be screwed.

Hope actually can and does take you pretty damn far if you are a kid in Georgia because you can be a HOPE scholar. Just ask my niece, who was a hope scholar, and is now in law school on a fully paid merit scholarship (which I didn't even know they HAD in law school), has gone pretty far on hope.

I thought it was a funny headline, made hilarious by the state (Georgia) he was speaking in and you unknowingly using the word HOPE.

haha.

Posted by Terrapinion | July 8, 2008 7:03 PM
Rustydog - I ask this in actual sincerity: What can you possibly find wrong with what Barack Obama said to those young kids?

Terra in all sincerity, I do not have a problem with anyone, including Obama telling kids to stay in school. But, kids do have dreams to aspire to the highest aspirations possible. My beef with Obama is he is good at telling everyone what they should and shouldn't do, but where are the plans to make the changes that are needed.

He is a great talker, but I see no plan for action in anything he does, and this is a prime example of "change" Obama style.

And further more, Mr Nice Guy, I could really give a rats ass what you think about me or anyone that has any ideas or opinions as I may have. It is exactly idiots who post in this blog that make me all the more determined to shut you down completely showing your stupidity in your 3rd grade playground remarks. Grow up already, twit!

Shorter Rusty: I don't have a problem with what Obama said, but did he have to look so scary and black when he said them? I went through three changes of underpants!

RustyDog: I do not have a problem with anyone, including Obama telling kids to stay in school. But, kids do have dreams to aspire to the highest aspirations possible.
-----------------------

I understand not wanting to shoot down a kid's dreams, but it is sad that many AA kids only have 2 dreams: be a rapper or be an athlete. They see these as the only path open to them to be successful. Even if Obama does not win, maybe he can show kids that there are other dreams that AA kids can have and -- by staying in school -- can achieve.

I still believe in a place called Hope.

Rustydog - I appreciate your response - truly.

I understand your distaste for politicians who only tell people what they want to hear. In fact, it has been my main issue with McCain since he began his march towards the nomination. To me, it is all too apparent that he is simply throwing red meat to the GOP base and not giving any indication that he is open to any ideas from the left or the center which is contrary to how he has portrayed himself for decades.

But, we are probably not going to convince eachother that our candidate is more sincere than the other. Somehow we came to believe these opposite conclusions.

Shorter Rusty: Obama's black. Or a democrat. Either way...

There's no other explanation for Rusty's demonization of BHO, and complete denial of McCain's constantly changing positions - unless it's the hope that on any given day, one of McCain's positions actually matches that of Rusty's, and that, statistically speaking, if Rusty waits another day or so, McCain will flip on another issue, and they'll be in alignment.

And if you didn't care, Rusty, you wouldn't have replied. Wassamatta? Did I offend you? Go polish your jackboots, boy...

BrooklynGurl: I believe in hope, too. I hope we can eradicate the self-serving, treasonous politicians currently in office - on both sides - and regain control of our country.

But hoping is somewhat close to wishing, so while I'm wishing, I'd like a pink unicorn. Or for the Vikings to win the SuperBowl. Both are about as likely...

Obama is has a much louder and larger microphone than Bill Cosby. Cosby rose to fame as a comedian and actor. Having an entertainer tell you not to chase your dreams to be an entertainer or athlete is blunted.

Obama is a Presidential candidate, the message may carry a little more weight. Hopefully Black America Web and other sites will explore the issue of how closely the target group for Obama's message are following the campaign. Under No Child Left Behind drop outs actually help raise the grade levels for the school and increase funding.

How do the 30-50% who are drop outs get their news? Will they realize that Obama was speaking to them? Will urban radio carry the message?

It should not escape attention that those who are involved in or have seen criminal activity and refuse to cooperate with law enforcement have a great role model. The "No Snitching" theme was presented for all to see in the George W Bush White House as they protected Libby (and ?Cheney).

So we have Obama asking youth to reach for the stars and Bush and the GOP stomping laws to the ground.

You didn't offend me in the least, NiceGuy. It is little Liberals like yourself on here that give me great pleasure in exposing your 3rd grade tactics of name calling when you cannot and do not have the intellectual ability to defend your point. You go to name calling as your defense.

Simply keep on sliding down the slide there "boy" and keep trying!

Rustydog- I realize this thread is cold, but I feel compelled to address some of your comments.

Do not underestimate the value of "talk" from the president. We have many examples of presidents guiding our national priorities through speeches, both good and bad. When the president stresses the importance of education, perseverance, hope, community activism and opportunity, it can reach these kids.

Of course, this talk should be backed by action. And Obama has outlined actions he intends to take. He would greatly expand AmeriCorps (75K participants to 200K) and others (GEAR UP, Upward Bound) for community outreach; create a $4000 college tax credit; stress science in our schools; create Early Learning Challenge Grants to promote pre-school development; provide scholarships to teachers in exchange for working in disadvantaged areas; create a Clean Energy Venture Capital Fund ($10B per yr over 5 yrs to partner with emerging cos); double Federal R+D funding; create a permanent R+D tax credit for cos, all geared toward making new opportunities.

Hope can be a powerful thing. If the president stresses hope and provides opportunity, it will have impact.

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