Kristol's Right

Hey Joe,

When has Kristol ever asked young men and women to enlist in the military? Like ever? He's spent his whole life championing wars but has never asked anyone for their service - why not?

Y'know he could've enlisted himself in 1970 when he turned 18 - why didn't Kristol enlist then - he supported Vietnam, right?

ditto pineview1997.

I look forward to Joe's denunciation of Kristol for not -- ever -- advocating that his conservative readers send themselves or their children to fight a war so desired and advocated for.

I'm sorry, did Kristol write a column supporting the GI bill and I missed it? Because other than that, it's all lip service.

Better for Obama to have voted to pass legislation that will actually help with those "fabulous education benefits" than invite the ROTC back on campus with one hand, and give the finger to vets with the other.

Pushing this narrative-that Democrats need to mouth platitudes in order to win the military vote-is total crap.

What Democrats need to do, is help people distinguish between the crap demagoguery of Kristol and McCain, and what real help looks like. And what real respect for the military looks like, which would be something along the lines of "we only put our troops in harm's way when it's necessary, not to enhance the grandiose egos of some who think they can force democracy at the point of a gun.

Joe, this is the kind of concern troll cum political hackery that Democrats hate to see you fall for.

Joe:

I am loathe to admit this --and I certainly don't endorse your or Krystal's political analysis nor framing-- but I concur with you on the principle of this issue.

This is true:
...retired Admiral Joe Sestak often made the point, during his successful run for Congress, that the values of the Democratic Party were very close to the values of the military--service, a belief in the potential of every one of its members, which meant universal health care, fabulous educational benefits...and a real sense of community.

Problem:

We just need to work out the tension between that set of communitarian/authoritarian values and the Democratic values of the enlightenment --individualism, liberty, entrepreneurship.

Fortunately for Democrats and liberals, individualism, liberty and entrepreneurship are just as apple-pie American as the military values of honor, comradeship and shared responsibility.

Kristol's had a media soap box for how many years now? And how many times in all those years has he ever called on young people to enlist?

Sorry, Joe. Kristol's just another hypocritical chickenhawk.

"Kristol's Right."

Translation from Kleinspeak: "Hey, commenters: I still, from time to time, have the right and the inclination to say, 'Bite me!""

This is all you need to know about Kristol's "respect" for our military personnel:

COLBERT: Speaking of thinking alike, you were a member, or are a member of the Project for a New American Century, correct?

KRISTOL: I am

COLBERT: Were or am?

KRISTOL: Were and am.

COLBERT: How's that Project coming?

KRISTOL: Well it's...

COLBERT: How's the New American Century? Looks good to me, right?

KRISTOL: I think it, I-I'm speechless.

COLBERT: Really?

KRISTOL: Yeah, we've sort of, the Project for a New American Century, we're one of the few people...

COLBERT: Come on, it's a terrific New American Century, right?

KRISTOL: Well, I think we're doing ok.

COLBERT: You, Rummy, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Pearle, Feith, all you guys, right?

KRISTOL: Well, we fought back after 9/11 and I'm proud of what we've done in Afghanistan and in Iraq, yes.

COLBERT: Well, this is pre-9/11, you guys had the Project in the 90s?

KRISTOL: Absolutely, and we thought we should have been fighting back more in the 90s.

COLBERT: Right, we should have invaded Iraq, you know, then you said.

KRISTOL: We should have, actually.

COLBERT: Exactly.

KRISTOL: If we had finished the job in 1991 it would have been a lot easier.

COLBERT: A lot of people are bailing on this whole Iraq war idea. But you're not, right?

KRISTOL: Correct.

COLBERT: You're still onboard?

KRISTOL: I am onboard.

COLBERT: The grand experiment?

KRISTOL: No, it?s not a grand experiment.

COLBERT: It?s not? It?s a little experiment?

KRISTOL: No, it?s an unfortunate necessity that you cannot allow dictators to kill their own people and you cannot allow dictators to threaten their neighbors.

COLBERT: Which dictator do we take down next?

KRISTOL: Well, I wish we could take down more, actually. You know, it?d be nice to?

COLBERT: Wait a second, we cannot allow dictators to kill their own people. That?s a very simple statement sir, which I support wholeheartedly. Back it up!

KRISTOL: I?m with you.

COLBERT: Who do we go after next? Iran? Come on!

KRISTOL: I think we may have to take military action against?

COLBERT: Let?s get some boots on the ground, sir!

KRISTOL: I wish?we may have to do that. We have to do that in the Sudan.

COLBERT: Is the military option on the table in Iran?

KRISTOL: Absolutely, absolutely. And in Sudan.

COLBERT: Ok. How about the nuclear option in Iran?

KRISTOL: No, no.

COLBERT: Come on!

KRISTOL: No, I differ with you on this.

COLBERT: The President says?

KRISTOL: You're a tougher guy than I am on this.

COLBERT: I'm a neo-neocon. You guys aren't tough for me.

KRISTOL: I'm an anti-nuke neocon and you're a pro-nuke neocon.

Interesting statements from someone who never wore a uniform.

Glad I'm not the only reader of Kristol's column today who wondered about his own military service...oh, yeah, there isn't any. Ironic that the toughest supporters of the war in Iraq (Kristol, Cheney to name two) have never spent a day in uniform. William Kristol grew up as a child of privilege and in the halls of power, hardly somebody who needs to lecture Obama even if the merits of service in uniform are hard to argue with.

Duncan calls BS so I don't have to:

http://www.eschatonblog.com/2008_06_01_archive.html#2862899972449636891

The problem with this whole formualtion is the idea that Democrats have to make it a point to support the military while Republicans are simply presumed to do so by default.

As John Aravosis loves to document, this is utter BS and supporting the notion and helping it along is one of Joe's worst habits.

Sorry Joe, but this is really stupid advice...

You are urging Obama to play by macho Republican issues...where McSame sets the rules on his perceived strength...the War.

Obama needs to go on the attack against old Leatherneck, and control the dialog himself, rather then reacting to these stupid attacks!

You've been more sensible lately, but this column is WAY OFF BASE!

And Bill Kristol is still the worst columnist I've ever read...it's incomprehensible that the once great NY Times continues to debase it's image by including this miserable man's screeds...

The theory is interesting, but the hypocrisy is breathtaking--

I guess JFK's speech was a little unpatriotic, too. Probably why Kristol never let it affect him.

The moment Obama mentions the military as an option open to college grads, the wingnuts - or McCain (same thing?) - will say something like:

"It's incredible that Senator Obama seems to think that he knows so much about the situation in Iraq when he never served in the military himself and won't meet with General Petraeus one-on-one. And now he's asking young people to join the military? Why...to fight in a war he wrongly thinks is a lost cause? Would he asks his daughters to make the same sacrifice? Why didn't he serve himself?"

You know that's what they would do....you know it. It won't make sense, but they'll try to use it against him. Heck, McCain pulled out the "I served and you didn't" card when trying to defend his non-vote/opposition to the Webb-Hagel veterans benefit amendment.

I mean, look at them now re: Trinity. "He should quit, how could he not quit, why hasn't he quit yet? O, he quit?...boy, what a hypocrite, he threw his church under the bus...what does he believe in?"

I have no problem with politicians talking up military service to young people. But I think more important issues are, you know, getting our existing troops out of Iraq and making sure our veterans have quality health care and benefits that allow them to pursue further education. (like the commercials all say)

Obama taking Kristol's advice is a good way to blunt his support with the college crowd. While doing absolutely nothing to show his support for the military.

Too bad Joe posted before he meant to. The complete title should have been

Kristol's Right. Temperatures in Hell at -17 F and Continuing to Drop.

Joe Klein alleges: "In 2008, with many members of the U.S. military--and their families--upset by Bush Administration policies, ...."

My all-time favorite: the always unidentified, alleged "many members of the U.S. military". I like that one even better than the always, unidentified, alleged "Republicans" or "conservatives" who support the Democrat party.

Who needs evidence when you write for Time magazine?

So if this applies to Obama, then maybe Joe Klein or Kristol or anyone else who supported the war (whether then or now, and even "accidentally" while in front of a camera) can tell me when they encouraged anyone to step up and serve.

It seems to me all the war cheerleaders want is for more young men and women to sign up to fight in all the wars the cheerleaders want to start. They just don't have the balls to come out and say it themselves, so they make someone else do it.

I guess there's nothing these cheerleaders won't ask others to do -- it's just a matter of "whatever it takes for me to not have to do it!"

Pathetic.

Joe,

While I'm tempted to dismiss this as nothing more than macho posturing, I think you're right. If Obama were to take your advice and make military service as important to his message of national service as, say, Teach for America, I think he'd outmaneuver McCain big-time.

After all, McCain giftwrapped a general election theme for Obama when he failed to back Webb's GI bill: rather than hearing about Dems being anti-military, a new theme could be about how Republicans treat soldiers as mascots rather than people. If Obama pairs national/military service with his support for the GI Bill, I'll bet he can catch McCain with his proverbial pants down. He'll have to be on the defensive.

By the way, I wouldn't get too upset about the whole "Kristol's Right," thing -- even a broken clock is right twice a day...

What military families want more than liberal platitudes, from the part-time flag pin wearing types, IS to -- and I'll say this slow so that even Wankette gets IS -- IS to WIN THE G-D WAR AGAINST WORLD TERRORISM.

That, Joe, IS the goal. That, Joe, saves lives -- on all sides.

Not pandering.

Not platitudes.

Not tenure.

Not anarchist anti-American Ayersheaded naiveté.

Just victory.

Defined?

Free peoples, independently and without duress, determining through ballots and not bullets their collective futures.

I will give you extra credit for mentioning the ROTC shout downers in the Berzerkley set, but enough about Vanity Fair.

= SUPER SURGE ACCOMPLISHED =

BTW, libs: The Surge IS working.

Better every day, too.

The blessings of freedom you have, yet still seem not to know from whence they come.

What a legacy.

Joe:

Kristol is right? When Mr. Kristol dons a uniform or otherwise gains some sort of credibility about military service, he still won't be qualified to criticize Obama, because he has been such a proponent of this unjust war. Advocating for the sacrifice of American lives for a lie does not make him an expert on anything other than being tragically mistaken.

Honestly, what would be more appropriate to have during one of life's most optimistic and forward-looking moments than a "join the army" solicitation whilst the country is embroiled in an unpopular quagmire. Shame on you, Barack Obama! Have you no recognition of the right place and time?

Joe:
When are you going to hold George Bush to the same standard that you hold Barack Obama? When is the last time George Bush has mentioned military service in the vein you suggest?

Speaking of right, McCain walloped Skippy Obama in front of AIPAC today...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080602/ap_on_el_pr/mccain

OH HELL YES.

The Democratic Party never lost its respect for the military, its members or their families. This 'lost credibility' that you mentioned was because a few fringe activists did some stupid things thirty years ago and everybody decided to generalize that across the entire party. And now we end up with a few dozen self-loathing pundits who buy into the entire barrel of crap.

Sorry, Joe. Kristol's column was nothing except class warfare. Kristol is a demagogue. Kristol is trying to incite hatred against a group of people based on their geographic location and their level of education.

The fact that Bill Kristol behaves in such a craven manner ought to be bad for Republicans! Instead, you decide to find fault with the dems.

The Democratic Party has more veterans running for office than the GOP - they might even have more ex-military sitting members right now! The GOP is the party of militant chickenhawks that use cultural warfare to incite the families of less wealth to send their children to fight the wars that the chickenhawks start. Now, surely, that must be bad for Republicans, right?

I think the highest purpose that our enlisted men and women serve is as fodder for Joe Klein's self-righteous preening.

Shorter J Klein: In order for Democrats to woo the military, they must talk like lunatic conservatives.

I'm not buying it. Of course, if you could provide any evidence that Democrats see military personnel as so many uniformed victims, maybe I'd come around to your position. But I don't think you have any such evidence. I think all you got is a wingnut ideologeme.

Maybe change the title from "Kristol's Right" to "Kristol Has An Idea That Isn't Completely Retarded."

That way it would change nothing as to the substance of the post, and induce less compulsive vomiting.

"Bill Kristol's Times column today raises a real problem for Democrats, a problem that has existed since Vietnam in some quarters of the party--he's absolutely right that Barack Obama, when touting public service, should have mentioned the U.S. military."

WTF was the last thing Kristol Meth was right about?

Joe, I think you are having a McCain moment. Both you and grandpa be sure to explain stop loss when touting enlistment.

Wiki: Stop-loss policy

Stop-loss, in the United States military, is the involuntary extension of a service member's active duty service under the enlistment contract in order to retain them beyond their initial end of term of service (ETS) date. It also applies to the cessation of a permanent change of station (PCS) move for a member still in military service.

...

The controversy regarding stop-loss focuses mainly on the aspect involving "involuntary extension" of a service member's initial active duty service obligation. For service members opposed to involuntary extension, it represents implementation of a desultory clause in their contract which alters their expectation of an end of term of service date. It also exposes them to the risk of an additional or prolonged combat deployment. For opponents of a current armed conflict, the public perception of "involuntary extension" is contrary to the notion of voluntary service and undermines popular support for the conflict.

In a campaign speech in 2004, former presidential candidate John Kerry described stop-loss as a "backdoor draft." The use of stop-loss has been criticized by activists and some politicians as an abuse of the spirit of the law, on the basis that Congress has not declared war, such as is the case in the Iraq War.

...

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, as one of his first acts in his position, penned a memo compelling commanders to "minimize" the stop-lossing of soldiers.

The United States Army states that enlisted soldiers facing stop-loss can now voluntarily separate by request, under provision 3-12, but only after they complete an involuntary deployment of twelve to fifteen months and 90 days stabilization time (time allowed to "out-process" from the military) can they apply.

This refers to an Army policy dated Sept. 5, 2002. It allowed enlisted soldiers under stop-loss to voluntarily separate on the one-year anniversary of their original expiration of service or ETS date (under twelve-month stop-loss); officers and warrant officers, not retirement eligible, to apply to leave one year from the end of their original service obligation date; officers and warrant officers without a service obligation to request separation 12 months after they were first affected by stop-loss; and retirement-eligible soldiers to apply for retirement one year from their original retirement eligibility date (defined as 20 years active federal service) or one year from when stop-loss took effect if the soldier was retirement eligible on the effective date of stop-loss.

Despite Secretary Gates's order, by April 2008 use of stop loss had increased by 43%.[9] Soldiers affected by stop loss were then serving, on average, an extra 6.6 months, and sergeants through sergeants first class made up 45% of these soldiers. From 2002 through April 2008, 58,300 soldiers were affected by stop loss, or about 1% of active duty, Reserve, and National Guard troops.

I think speaking less about the military is an advantage.

I also don't think that universities should have ROTC programs if they don't want to. Universities don't let every potential employer onto their campuses to run recruitment and training programs. The military is just another employer.

Also, the military openly discriminates against homosexuals. Why would a University like Harvard, which doesn't discriminate against homosexuals, allow a bigoted institution to run recruitment and training programs on its campus?

RE "Columbia allowed Ahmadinejad to speak on campus but won't allow the U.S. military..."

What garbage.

Members of the military are allowed to speak at Columbia University.

If Joe Klein is equating having an ROTC program year-round with a one-time visit by a foreign leader, then the comparison is idiotic.

Democrats do not support the troops because they don't send them off to die in unnecessary wars, based on lies.

This is a terrible post that is nothing more than the same sort of straw man the extreme right uses against liberals all the time. I hope Klein is ashamed of himself.

Oh, Joe.

You made a great point very badly. If the Dems were to reach out to the Armed Forces and their families it could make for a Permanent Dem Majority. With Forces/families on their side they'd be unstoppable.

But to headline that insight as "Bill Kristol was Right"? C'mon!

sometimes obamish is so over-the-top I begin to wonder if he really isn't just play acting the part....I mean, nobody on the right is that wacked-out insane, are they?

oh wait...

Joe yells, "Kristol's Right"!
And you know what, Joe? I have no quarrel with that. It IS your moral judgment.

But I say, "Kristol's Wrong"!
You should have no quarrell with my moral judgement either.
But Kristol would want to strangle me.

Are we at war? A declared war? Ask Bush.
There are many ways to serve. And military service is one of them.
On Bill Kristol.
There was a time when 80% of the fertile lands of Zimbabwe in Africa were 'owned' (actually grabbed) by 5,000 British who planted inedible stuff like tobacco as raw material for the UK market. The raw material was exported at throw-away (transfer) pricing levels. The rest of the starving, expendable 11,000,000 locals were crammed into 20% of the land that was arid or semi-arid. Then came Mr. Mugabe with his aim to restore the ancestral lands to the locals.
What is wrong with that?
I read an article a few weeks ago in which Kristol argued for the US invasion of Zimbabwe to restore order in that land (Read: Grab back 80% of the Africa's ancestral lands in Zimbabwe to the British)

Would you be surprised if told that as our troops advanced into Zimbabwe and beyond, media cheerleader Bill Kristol yelled "Kill them! Be confident! Prevail! We are going to wipe them out! We are not blinking!"?

And we will be at war perpetually.
[I would send tough-guy Kristol to the front lines in an army of one - without a flak jacket]

the only time i thought "kristol" and "right" could appear in the same sentence are the following;
"bill kristol is the right wing idiot who champions the neocon movement"
or
"bill kristol is just to the right of hitler"

Come on, folks. Give Joe a break. He was trying, in his clumsy way, to tell Obama how to win the support of the "low-information voters." These voters could be pivotal in certain states.

Stupid Joe is back in da house!

You know what else the Democrats really need? More flag pins!

Bad, bad advice, Joe. Have you learned anything this past year?

Gee, Joe, Kristol was just the right age for combat in Vietnam. Tell us all about his glorious military service.

And Joe, you were also just the right age for combat in Vietnam. Tell us all about your glorious military service, too.

Kristol is the shame of the New York Times. You have stiffer competition at Time Magazine, but you're still in there pitching!

Hey, Joe--You might want to check this out before you go and headline anymore blogposts in praise of Bill Kristol:

RealClearPolitics, May 27, 2008, in an article ironically titled "Obama's sin of omission": So I guess it's just me wondering -- how on earth do you give a speech on that topic and not mention our country's most widespread and important form of public service and sacrifice, military service?

Maybe Obama didn't want to go there because of the unfortunate political contrast between himself and John McCain when it comes to military service and knowledge, an unflattering comparison that left Obama on the short end of a recent political exchange over veterans' benefits.

Now here is NYT op ed columnist Bill Kristol, dated today June 2, in a piece entitled "What Obama left out":

More striking is Obama's sin of omission. In the rest of the speech, he goes on to detail -- at some length -- the "so many ways to serve" that are available "at this defining moment in our history." There's the Peace Corps, there's renewable energy, there's education, there's poverty -- there are all kinds of causes you can take up "should you take the path of service."

But there's one obvious path of service Obama doesn't recommend -- or even mention: military service. He does mention war twice: "At a time of war, we need you to work for peace." And, we face "big challenges like war and recession." But there's nothing about serving your country in uniform.

It can't be that the possibility of military service as an admirable form of public service didn't occur to Obama. Only the day before, Obama had been squabbling with John McCain about veterans' benefits.

Is there any possibility that Kristol has been cribbing his column? (h/t Aravosis)

Yes, please hurry up and "WIN THE G-D WAR AGAINST WORLD TERRORISM" so obamish can come out from under his bed. His pee-soaked jammies are giving him a rash.

اناشيد طيور الجنة
ريجيم ورشاقة
طبخ
ازياء
ميك اب ومكياج
اتيكيت
ازياء محجبات
اكلات
حلويات
الطب البديل والاعشاب
صحة المراة
العروس
اكسسوارات
ديكور
العاب بنات
توبيكات
صور للماسنجر
العاب تلبيس
عالم حواء
مصارعة حرة
برامج
اناشيد
تحميل العاب
يوتيوب
مسجات
العاب
العاب طبخ
العاب بنات
العاب ميك اب
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ماسنجر
برامج مجانية
مسلسلات ومسرحيات
خلفيات
غرائب وعجائب
حكم وامثال
سياحة
افلام وثائقية
القران الكريم
اخبار
برامج موبايل
العاب بلاى ستيشن ونينتندو
العاب جوال
نوكيا
جوال
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برامج فوتشوب
نغمات
ثيمات
العاب
صور سيارات
نكت
برامج حماية وانتى فايروس
افلام اجنبية
برامج صور
قصص
العاب اطفال
برامج ماسنجر
برامج
العاب
بروكسي
برامج الجوال
برامج بورتابل
برامج الشبكات
تحميل برامج
العاب باربي
مصارعه حره
برامج كمبيوتر
اغانى اطفال
افلام
صور
اغانى
فيديو
hguhf
فيديو
صور

اسلام تيوب
افلام
افلام و مسلسلات كرتون وانمى
افلام وفيديو العاب
دروس و شروحات فيديو
عالم حواء المراة
فيديوهات رياضية
مقاطع فيديو
يوتيوب

اعلانات افلام
اعلانات طريفة
اعلانات ميلودى
اغانى المسلسلات و الافلام
افلام اجنبى
افلام عربي
افلام وثائقية و تاريخية
مسلسلات

اغانى واناشيد اطفال
اناشيد طيور الجنة
توم وجيرى القط و الفار
كرتون كوكب زمردة سبيستون
مسلسلات كرتون mbc3

ادعية
القران الكريم
اناشد مشاري العفاسي
اناشيد احمد بو خاطر
اناشيد و اغانى اسلامية
برامج دينية
قصص الانبياء

اغانى
حفلات
سياسة و اخبار