Zell Lieberman

I gave Lieberman the benefit of the doubt against Ned Lamont in 2006, even though I disagreed with him about the war. I shouldn't have.

You know Joe they Dirty Effing Hippies may be unappealing to your six-figure plus lifestyle, but they sure are right a lot.

If you're going to talk about "Recount" Joe, you should link to James' excellent review - http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1738500,00.html

It takes a big man to admit that he was wrong.

If Harry Reid had a pair, he'd strip Leiberman of his chairmanships for his nasty nonsense.

BTW, if Bill Clinton has any desire to improve his standing among non-Hillary supporters, he would be an excellent foil to use against Lieberman.

An "I gave the benefit of the doubt to Joe Lieberman and I shouldn't have. I'm disappointed in him." coming from Bill Clinton might actually mean something.

Clinton has credibility on the ME issue...at least among non-Likudniks. Standing up for Obama would be a rare classy move from Bill.

If Harry Reid had a pair...

I could spend all day finishing sentences that began with that clause. Hell, maybe I should start a blog with that title.

I gave Lieberman the benefit of the doubt against Ned Lamont in 2006, even though I disagreed with him about the war. I shouldn't have.

Don't feel bad. I voted for McCain when I lived in Arizona.

Reid's balls (or bluster)--

Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) could be stripped of his chairmanship of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee after the next election, Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has said.

Speaking to MSNBC host Keith Olbermann on Friday, Reid suggested the former Democrat, who lost to a left-wing primary challenger in 2006 and has now endorsed Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) for the presidency, is not guaranteed to keep his prestigious chairmanship.

Olbermann asked Reid if there was “anything that he could do that would make you move to take his leadership position away on Homeland Security.” The majority leader responded: “Yes, of course,” but did not elaborate.

Earlier on Friday, Reid added, “I think it’s wrong what he’s done [campaigning for McCain], and

Lieberman really is a neo-con. His voting record on domestic issues is pretty good, He genuinely doesn't care about these issues in comparison to bombing everybody in the middle east.

McCain wants to bomb bomb bomb Iran. That's good enough for Holy Joe.

"(Lieberman's) voting record on domestic issues is pretty good"
I know he has that reputation but is it true? Was it once but no longer?
The only domestic issue of his that I have followed is his screwing of NOLA. Which was contrary to how he ran in 2006.

Why is anyone paying any attention to what Joe Lieberman says or does at this point?

Based on what has happened in the three house seats that Democrats took away from Republicans, the 70% plus polling of the American people that our country is heading in the wrong direction and the Iraq disaster that 70% of America wants to put behind us, isn't it apparent that Lieberman has hitched himself to a campaign that is doomed?

What Democrats should do about Joe Lieberman is make him the laughing stock of America. Our Democratic talking heads should laugh and make fun of him. Use phrases like, "look no one takes Joe Lieberman seriously anymore," " Joe Lieberman is on his own planet" "We don't give any credance to anything Joe Lieberman says," etc.

And Harry Reid should immediately strip him of his chairmanships and simply state "we found his leadership unreliable" and make no more statements about Joe Lieberman.

Treat him as if he doesn't exist and he will cease to exist.

Joe,

you might be better off listing things you have been right about. Your lists of things you have been wrong about (Iraq, Joe Lieberman, McCain running honest campaign, "boorishness" of Democrat in regard to Social Security if you need reminder on this I think Krugman has a link to your article on his blog) is astronomical and puts your judgement in serious doubt. Why would anyone pay you for your opinion or take your views/prognostications seriously is a a mystery.

Floridian that's a good idea.
When Bill Clinton was president and would be asked to respond to some wacky Newt attack he would smile and say "We understand why he says those things"
Disarming and dismissive.

*gasp*

Joe, you're getting dangerously close here to saying the DFH's had another one right.

Now, I don't expect you to go so far as to come out and say it, but progress comes slow.

As I like to say, there is at least some hope for you.

Joe,
Giving liberman a benefit of doubt was a collosal error of judgement, perod. Liberman doesn't deserve to be in the Senate. He is a looser and a dutch bag

Joe Klein - Thank you. As somebody who held up plenty of signs for Ned Lamont it is a welcome sight to see those words.

I wonder what his constituents in Conn. think about all the time he spends being public boob number one? Or is he the junior senator from Israel now?

I am sure Lieberman is forever in your debt for your granting him the benefit of the doubt, Joe. Indeed, what would he have done without your begrudging approval?

It is really amazing that Joe manages to turn every policy disagreement into an issue of character. He is under the impression that anyone who disagrees with him, on anything, is just a dishonest jerk. Especially if they (God forbid!) say less than flattering things about Obama. That is a capital crime in Joe's mind.

By the way, Joe, Obama wants to have tea with the leaders of Iran. Iran is the sugar daddy of Hamas. Hamas endorsed Obama because a president Obama will bring legitimacy to their cause. This is not complicated.

-Bon

Lieberman makes a particularly unctuous cameo, in which he knifes the Gore campaign in the back.

He did the same thing to John Kerry in October of 2004. Which is just one of the many reasons why a lot of us figured out the Zell Lieberman thing a looooong time ago.

bon,

it is an issue of character when Saint Joe slimes somebody with Hamas propaganda. Your dear leader George W. Bush has been the greatest boon to Al-Qaeda by saber-rattling and going to Iraq. This is the policy that McBush and Saint Joe wants to follow in regard to Iran, Hamas, et al. Given the gargantuan success of Bush-McCain policy of not talking to our enemies, I can see how you might think a different policy might be a bad idea. As a general rule, you don't negotiate with your friends (though Bush has managed to accomplish this feat too by alienating them), you negotiate with your enemies.

Your colleage Michael Scherer is anything but esteemed. This is something you will find out if you take a cursory glance at comments of Swampland every now and then.

The majority of Hamas funding comes from Saudi Arabia. This is not complicated.

Okay, Joe. Point made. Thanks. Now: what will Harry Reid do? That nifty boxer from Nevada should strip Joe L of his chairmanship and let things play out. Nothing good will be done in the Senate until Jan 2009. So a little kick ass now will be good for morale. And if there is a mix and Cheney has to come and break the tie: so be it. But we can get rid of No Good Joe Lieberman.

Posted by Joe Klein May 14, 2008 4:45:

He is entitled to his views about the Middle East, but for the past five years he has taken those Likudnik views a step beyond propriety--saying that those who disagree with him (i.e.--the Democratic Party, which nominated him for the Vice Presidency in 2000) are counseling "defeat" and "surrender."

Yes, that's what we've been yelling about for five years. It's the kind of dishonest sloganeering that has set this country back in terms of solving the problems we've gotten ourselves into.

But Joe (and this is an honest question asked in good faith), how is it possible to speak publicly to the American electorate about Middle East foreign policy without simply echoing the Likud (and Republican) party line, and not be labeled Tone Deaf on National Security?

Remember, I'm grateful and impressed that you've exhibited the strength of character to tell us

I gave Lieberman the benefit of the doubt against Ned Lamont in 2006, even though I disagreed with him about the war. I shouldn't have.

, so please don't take my question to be rhetorical.

Joe Klein - Wow. I was afraid that we would not get an example of the results of all of the demagoguery we were talking about earlier and then along comes a post by 'Bon'! Right on your own little comment thread is a person who believes the things that McCain and Lieberman have been saying about Barack Obama. So here are my questions for you:

How would you respond to him? Do you think that he would be able to understand a nuanced discussion of the interactions between Hamas' military and political wings? Is it not better to simply tell him that Obama's position towards Hamas is no different than McCain's? And, despite the fact that they are the same do you think that he will care?

It is a shame that your article was already completed by now. I think a discussion with Bon might be revealing as to what goes on in the conservative mind.

I understand the impulse to repeat talking point, gloucester, but it is just not very convincing.

Keep in mind that it is the democrats, and Obama in particular, who are currently sticking their finger in the eye of our allies. Obama intends to renege on trade deals with Canada, Mexico, South Korea, Columbia, among others. These are our allies, with whom we share common interests and common goals. Obama would rather pander to certain special interest groups at home than honor the relationships we have with our friends around the world.

But not so when it comes to countries like North Korea, Syria and Iran. They threaten us and our allies. They build secret nuclear facilities, they murder our troops and they murder Iraqi and Lebanese civilians with glee and Obama wants to be gentle. He would never dream of hammering them into submission. No no, he save the hammering for great evils like Canada!

That is Obama's foreign policy. Treat our enemies like our friends and our friends like our enemies. Lieberman disagrees with Obama because Lieberman and McCain live in the real world. (Tragically that loses them Joe Klein's much lauded approval, but something tells me Joe made his mind up before now.)

-Ben

Bon,

so it is talking points that Iraq is in shambles, Osama "Dead or Alive" bin Laden is still out there. How is the weather in your world? You and Republicans have been living in the fantasy world so long that it took your leadership a thumping in MS-01 (that Bush won by more than 20 points) to wake up to realization that American people will choose anyone but Republicans (as Newt Grinrich, the arch liberal, has pointed out). No wonder your nominee and his side-kick need slime, fear-mongering to be able to run remotely competitively. McBush is behind Obama by average of 5 points and this is before people find out McBush's 100 year plan for Iraq, economic illiteracy (by McBush's own account) and his plans for Social Security (how well do you think privatization of Social Security will play in FL, PA and other seniors?)

I wonder what it will take for you to live in reality and not the fantasy land where George W. Bush is a great leader and not the biggest failure that polling record shows.

"I understand the impulse to repeat talking point, gloucester, but it is just not very convincing."

According to last three special elections for Congress and polls, it is very convincing to majority of American people. But that does not include 28% Bush dead-enders like you. Is there any issue including national security on which your view points is prevalent among American people? There is reason for 15-20 points party identity (in favor of Democrat) differntial between Democrat and Republican.

Last night's speical election was the harbinger of tsunami that's going to destroy your fantasy world.

Does the decent dem Senator even know Say Joe Klein's RETREAT AT ALL COSTS mind on these matters?

Of course not.

Nor should he.

Move On!

I don't know....at least Zell was animated, loosing his cool, challenging Chris Matthews to a duel.

On the other hand, it's hard for me to get worked up by anything Elmer Fudd says these days.

Has anyone ever figured out what we are 'retreating' from or 'surrendering' to?

What is even more mystifying is just how members of Hamas plan to register to vote. You figure Gaza has 1.6 million people, so it's a little smaller than West Virginia, so maybe Hamas is good for what, maybe 22 delegates?

What about OBL? Is he a superdelegate?

The only thing I can figure out right now is, that either I am way, WAY, WAAAAYYY out in left field, or Leibermann and the Republicans are.

We will be retreating from a quagmire and surrendering to common sense.

"I wish Blitzer had been a bit more dogged..."

Another pony that will never materialize...

Joe Lieberman's days as a fifth column are nearing their end. The Democrats are quite likely to pick up Senate seats in the fall and, with a greater than one vote majority, they can strip Lieberman of his seniority and tell him he's no longer welcome in the Democratic caucus. But I'm sure he knew that was coming anyway. He's banking on St. McCain being elected and offering him a nice post in his cabinet. Chances were pretty good he was going to suffer if the Democrats increased their Senate majority no matter who got elected President, so Joe saw the writing on the wall and went all-in on his best chance to stay relevant.

Nice post, Joe. I just get the feeling that if you were reading more progressive blogs you would have come to this story sooner, like your colleague. But I also realize you've been busy, and you've been covering the Mid East well, so---well, good job!

Good post, Joe.

I supported the Iraq invasion. By the time of the Lamont race, it was clear to me that (1) I had been wrong, and that (2) Atrios, Kos, and their ilk had been right about everything, and I was wrong to take TNR's and the MSM's word for anything.

Welcome to life as a dirty hippie. I've found that you just need to give it some time, and you'll get used to judging policies by their effects instead of their political correctness.

I, for one, chose not to vote for Gore. That's because the troll from Connecticut was on the ticket. Has anyone in the media ever discussed the effect Lieberman may have had on Gore's chances of winning?

Ah - who am I kidding. The Lieberman factor pales in comparison to the effect of paperless voting. It'a very curious thing how Gore got that negative vote count (-16,022 ) from the optical scanners in Volusia county's 216th precinct. Negative 16,022 voters - does that mean 16,022 voters double did not choose Gore or was this a bleed-through from a negative parallel universe?

Two words to the wise ... absentee ballot.

Hey Joe,

You got some defending of your little old self to do today.

"Actual journalists" as government spokespeople

Time's Joe Klein, in a post this week he entitled "How Actual Journalism Works":

Third, look at the record. Tell me where I've been misled by my sources.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?source=rss

saying that those who disagree with him are counseling "defeat" and "surrender."

Amazing. I still rather vividly remember you typing that EXACT same sentiment on a post here, and then after several commenters pointed it out, promply deleted the reference without acknowleging its existence.

It must be difficult to have to continually type things that you don't believe just to win points with whoever you think you will need to from week to week.

It's funny how when one of his fellow (ex) democrats turn on Joe Klein he is a smearing tratior who has sold out to be a right wing tool for republicans. On the other hand if a republican crosses party lines he is being brave and standing up for his principles.

Now lets get on with those articles portraying Mccain as an old man with failing health. You know Time magazine already has a few of those in the can for the general election

and please Obama, don't pick Edwards as VP. He didn't have the guts to endors you when it could have meant something, now he is just a phony hopping on the winning bandwagon

I feel the same way about Lieberman. I was disappointed in his treatment during 2006, but the more I watch him, the more I wish he'd just go join the Republicans already. At least, don't keep this facade up. Thank you for writing so well what a lot of Americans who used to be proud of Senator Lieberman are thinking.

The egregious Joke Line forgets his own frequent fellation of holy joe a couple of years ago. I've no doubt someone at Atrios' place or at DKos will dig up the necessary references.

The egregious Joke Line's problem in this--as in so much else!--isn't that he was wrong back then. The problem is that he has so much difficulty coming clean. Which, to so many people's mind, means he hasn't really learnt anything.

You know, actual journalism and all that.

I gave Lieberman the benefit of the doubt against Ned Lamont in 2006, even though I disagreed with him about the war.

The Egregious Joke Line, scrubbing his own graffiti off the walls of history, one sneaky little line at a time.

Better late than never, Joe. If I may point out, some of us here in the netroots had Joe's number a long time ago.

I agree Holy Joe's views are "Likudnik" and think that's an appropriate label. Wolf Blitzer worked for AIPAC (maybe not as a lobbyist as some allege). That seems to be a relevant fact and may explain his weak interviewing of Likudnik Joe.

Uh, the progressive blogs have been comparing Holy Joe to Zell Miller for the last two years.

But you guys got there first.

Perhaps you should read some of these so-called blogs?

I don't quite follow, Joe. Why would anyone who "disagreed with [Lieberman] about the war" have supported Lieberman over Lamont? What issue caused you to overlook that little war thing? And what has Lieberman done differently since November 2006 to change your mind? His behavior has not changed one iota since then.

Joe -- Thank you for finally seeing the light, but really, you should get out more....

Just two examples:

FROM WOUNDED LIBERAL

http://woundedliberal.blogspot.com/2005/03/joe-lieberman-and-zell-miller-cousins.html
(March 19, 2005)
"He needs to ask himself if he is truly a Democrat, or Zell Miller’s northern cousin."

FROM A SADLY, NO COMMENTER:
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/4812.html
(January 2007)
"Zell Lieberman makes Quisling look like a patriot."

"I gave Lieberman the benefit of the doubt against Ned Lamont in 2006, even though I disagreed with him about the war. I shouldn't have."

Here are my question for you Joe:

"What could you possibly mean by that, Joe--and please be specific. What are you implying here, Joe? Why do you think you gave Joe Liebermen the benifit of the doubt when his position on the war was so far out of the mainstream? And were you worried about Lieberman's Middle East policy positions when you gave him the benefit of the doubt?

I gave Lieberman the benefit of the doubt against Ned Lamont in 2006, even though I disagreed with him about the war. I shouldn't have.

Gee, if you were wrong about that, Joe, maybe you were wrong about all the other stuff progressives have been saying for eight f---ing years, routinely, consistently, aptly, and being proven right time after tragic time doing the job you get handsomely paid to do but suck at. Wake the hell up. Truth and credulity don't mix.

Wished-for Blitzer:

What could you possibly mean by that, Senator Lieberman -- and please be specific. Why do you think Hamas "favors" Obama over McCain?

An even fonder wish:

What could you possibly mean by that, Senator Lieberman -- and please be specific. Why do you think Hamas "favored" Bush in 2004?

Gee, if you were wrong about that, Joe, maybe you were wrong about all the other stuff progressives have been saying for eight f---ing years, routinely, consistently, aptly, and being proven right time after tragic time doing the job you get handsomely paid to do but suck at. Wake the hell up. Truth and credulity don't mix.

I think that sums it up nicely.

The two Joes - Lieberman and Klein - are just having a little lovers' spat this morning.

By the way, Joe, if you've noticed an uptick in traffic, it's just that some of the real blogs have linked directly to you this morning. See you in another year or two if you're still employed.

I appreciate Joe's column, and the sentiments he expresses.

I just think that some folks owe other folks a bit more. At this stage in history, there should be some mass accounting, some national "I'm sorry" to the "dirty effing hippies" who have happened to have been right about all the major issues of the day (really, since 1998). Remember when we... err they ... were accused of running a "jihad" because of our intolerance of divergent viewpoints in the primary, like it was some shocking faux paus?

Instead, we keep seeing people who have been wrong, wrong, wrong getting high profile TV slots, and the "dirty effing hippies" not getting recognized for being right over and over.

But I would rather have Joe Klein on board now than still operating mindlessly - although that "Tone Deaf Democrats" article really got my goat. I'm still ticked about that one.

I have to reply to this. I've been blogging for so long, I am bound to find a journo "discover" a meme that ... ahem ... I wrote 3 years ago :

January 31, 2005
Is Joe Liberman the Next Zell Miller?
by LIZA SABATER
http://www.culturekitchen.com/archives/002773.html

Enjoy!

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فساتين -
تسرحيات -
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توم وجيري -
قصات شعر -
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انمي -
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قصات2008 -
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صور انمي -
فيديو كليب -
صور رومانسية -
صور تصميم -
صور للماسنجر -

ديكورات -

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اناشيد طيور الجنه -
صور حب -
صور للمسن -
تسريحات شعر -
يوتيوب -
افلام انمي -

صور قلوب -
صور انمي
-
صور اطفال للماسنجر -

صور باربي -
صور بنات للتصاميم -
نور ومهند -
رموز للماسنجر -

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انمي خليجي -
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صور انمي 2008 -
بنات انمي رومنسي

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ويحيى - ثيم رومنسي مهند ونور -
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قلوب حب - صور زفاف عرايس -صور انمي بنات رومانسية  -
صور انمي بنات -صور بنوتات للماسنجر -
توبيكات ملونه -بنات
رومنسية للمسن - توبيكات رومانسية ملونة -توبيكات حزينة ملونة  صور لميس
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