May 23, 2008 1:18
Clinton's "Formal Talks"
CNN is reporting, and the blogs are amplifying, that Clinton and Obama are in "formal talks" about her coming onto the ticket as the VP. That there are talks happening may well be true, but the chatter I'm hearing these days is that Hillary does not want the job. Taking it would repudiate all of the arguments she's made for why she should be at the top of the ticket, and it would be a substantially less powerful role than the one she could play as Senate Majority Leader. Sure, it's been reported that Bill is for it (Yeah, when's the last time that guy had a good idea?), but my sense is that all the Clinton allies talking it up at this point are doing so mainly out of wounded pride and not out of any real sense that Hillary being on the ticket is a good idea. The petulant language they use is striking: "There's talks of vice presidency, and the Clinton sources say there would be 'civil war' in the party if she wasn't offered the job," and "But there's a risk that if she isn't invited on the ticket, Hillary's political and financial supporters may not feel compelled to be as integrated and involved in the Obama campaign;" these are not strategic or even political arguments, they're emotional ones. ("May not feel compelled" is particularly passive aggressive.)
What's more, for all the talk of how important McCain's VP choice is, it's Obama whose fortunes vary the widest when matched with a running mate against McCain. There's not a lot of polling done on this just yet, but Survey USA asked about a range of hypotheticals in Pennsylvania (weirdly, sans Clinton), and found that Obama's polling swung around wildly (from 52 to 40), whereas McCain stayed rather solidly around 40 no matter who he was matched with. I mean, McCain still lost most of the time, but that amplitude in Obama's number suggests that the right choice helps him tremendously and a wrong choice hurts him just as much. This is not a decision that the Obama team can let hinge on pride or even "party unity,"* and I don't think they will.
* The idea that a significant portion of Democrats will actually either sit out the race or vote for McCain if she doesn't get on the ticket is somewhat supported by polling but not by history or common sense. And not even the McCain people really believe it. What's more, Clinton has almost total control over the context around her absence from the ticket. She can cast it as a mutual decision to put together the best combination of strengths possible, she can cast it as a selfish move by an upstart ignorant of her tremendous importance -- one of those arguments will motivate her supporters to vote for the guy despite sore feelings, one of them won't.
UPDATE: And apparently those talks aren't really happening after all -- though I'm sure we have another few weeks of heated speculation to wait through anyway.
About Swampland
Ana Marie Cox is the founding editor of Wonkette and the author of the novel Dog Days. Read more
Joe Klein is TIME's political columnist and author of six books, most recently Politics Lost. Read more
Karen Tumulty is TIME's National Political Correspondent and has also covered the White House and Congress. Read more
Jay Carney is TIME's Washington bureau chief. He has covered the Clinton and Bush 43 White Houses as well as Congress. Read more
Jay Newton-Small has covered the Bush 43 White House and Congress since the DeLay era. Read more
Michael Scherer is a TIME Washington bureau correspondent covering the 2008 presidential campaign. Read more
Mike Murphy is a GOP consultant and was a senior strategist for John McCain's 2000 presidential campaign. Read more
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Reader Comments (21)
She doesn't want the job?
Oh, thank god. Flying Spaghetti Monster does love me after all.
Posted by four legs good | May 23, 2008 1:53 PM
So far all the talk has been about Obama publicly offering the VP slot to Clinton. Wouldn't it make more sense for her to state publicly that she would not take the VP slot if offered. This would assuage her supporters feelings and keep Obama from appearing to give into pressure from her side. This of course only if she truly does not want it...so who knows.
-AL
Posted by Andrew | May 23, 2008 1:58 PM
And I agree, how she frames this will make all the difference in how her supporters respond.
I'm not hopeful. Every time I've thought she was going to take the high road, she's dived for the bottom. I wish she'd start acting more like a statesman, and less like a petulant 15 year old who didn't get their way.
Posted by four legs good | May 23, 2008 1:58 PM
I swear if they did both decide that it would be best if she were on the ticket as VP, all the vitriol filled Hillary haters would have a harder time dealing with it than Hillary supporters would have if she were not,.
Posted by ivb | May 23, 2008 2:00 PM
Clinton sources say there would be 'civil war' in the party if she wasn't offered the job
Does this stuff have the flavor of a threat, or is it just me?
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/hillarys_top_fundraiser_says_t.php
The big donors are having less and less influence:
http://www.mahablog.com/2008/03/27/the-threat/
The prima donnas with the big checks are realizing they could be left behind. If this is the way they play the game, then good riddance.
Posted by J.J.
|
May 23, 2008 2:01 PM
The idea that a significant portion of Democrats will actually either sit out the race or vote for McCain if she doesn't get on the ticket is somewhat supported by polling but not by history or common sense.
You're right that it doesn't make much sense. A lot depends however on however on how thoroughly John McCain gets away with his blatant zig-zag manuevers. From the moment he announced his primary run, he's been courting the extreme edges of the Republican's and has actually publicly repudiated several long held beleifs. Now that he is safely the nominee he's working hard to wink and tell everyone that he was just kidding.
Evidence suggests that the press will indeed allow him to get away with it, though I can't help but notice that Michael has had a few unpleasantly enlightening experiences the last few days.
Posted by Paul Dirks
|
May 23, 2008 2:06 PM
Totally not relevant to this, but I really wanted to thank Time for running Nathan Thornburgh's story on the home page today about the Libertarian Party's primary -http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1808384,00.html.
People forget there are more than two primaries going on right now. My vote’s for Wayne Allyn Root btw! Thornburgh’s portrayal of many libertarians’ impressions of Bob Barr are spot on.
Of course Ron Paul would be dreamy. Anyway, (cough cough) back to Clinton and Obama's endless primary...
Posted by Disenfranchised_Libertarian | May 23, 2008 2:06 PM
AMC: That's great reporting, except for one thing. The only non-irrational argument for staying in the race is to help her get the VP nod. There was 0% chance of her being offered it right after Super Tuesday. There is probably 30% chance now.
Why stay in the race except to put pressure on Obama? If she wants to be Majority Leader, go back to D.C. and start leading.
Posted by space | May 23, 2008 2:13 PM
Don't do it, Sen. Obama. This is the woman who said "We all know this election [Michigan} is not going to count for anything." But just in case, she left her name on the ballot and now she and Ickes are claiming it all. It's a blatant travesty yet they are righteously caterwauling about civil rights and Zimbabwe and what not, her previous statement obliterated from her mind. Instead, tell her... "Sen. Clinton, I would never offend you by offering you the VP...but let me wish you luck in all your future endeavors." ...and let her go away. Please.
Posted by elen | May 23, 2008 2:18 PM
I smell a Colbert in the works – Hillary assures Obama she doesn't want the job, she only wants the OFFER. Whereupon he offers, and she ACCEPTS!
Posted by FlownOver | May 23, 2008 2:37 PM
Ana,
I hope you're right about her not wanting the position and even if she does want it, I hope Obama has the sense not to give offer the VP slot to her. I read Andrew Romano's blog yesterday evening ( http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/05/22/Obama-Hints-at-Naming-Clinton-to-his-_2700_Team-of-Rivals_2700_.aspx ) He says that Obama may have been hinting that he'd pick Clinton as VP. I realize that Obama was speaking about who he might pick in a general sense as a member of his team and not specifically referring to who he might pick as VP. Still, reading this info prompted a sleepless night.
I recently took advantage of the lobby superdelegate tool offered at https://www.lobbydelegates.com/ . I sent my message to Clinton superdelegates urging them to switch and to uncommitted superdelegates urging them to declare for Obama. I tried to be respectful and non-threatening. I emphasizes that I will vote for Clinton if she's the nominee. I used to feel differently but I cannot in good conscience allow McCain to be in a position to appoint justices to the Supreme Court and I cannot in good conscience install McCain as Commander-in-Chief in charge of the war in Iraq. I considered casting a protest vote for Nader but it is probable that such mischief in 2000 gave us George W. Bush's first term. So, although a Clinton candidacy is highly unlikely at this point I would vote for her if she somehow finds a way to steal the nomination. But, as my message to the superdelegates said, although she'll have my vote she will not have my financial support or boots on the ground hard work.
My letter to the superdelegates told a bit about my background and what I've done on behalf of Obama's campaign. I told them I'm fifty-four years old and I've been a democrat since casting my first vote for George McGovern in 1972. From then until now I've been socially active. I've contributed both my time and money to nonprofit organizations. I've founded my own nonprofit organization and served on the boards of other nonprofit organizations. I founded and edited a literary journal and I currently serve as president of the board of directors of 826michigan ( http://www.826michigan.org ), a nonprofit organization teaching writing skills to children aged 6 to 18. In spite of vigorous social activism my political involvement has never gone past casting my vote. On a federal level, I've consistently cast my vote for Democratic congresspersons, senators, and presidential candidates but again voting has been the limit of my involvement. My involvement has not included giving money or volunteering to work for the party. That is until now. In my political life, Barack Obama is the first candidate I've been willing to vote "for" instead of voting "against" the other person (Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush 41 & 43). In spite of my nonprofit activism and my rather active literary life that I'm a blue-collar worker without much disposable income and my first donation to Obama was for $10. I made a few more small $10 donations. Then I got even more involved and took advantage of the personal fundraiser application available at barackobama.com to set up my own personal fundraising page on his web site. Then I e-mailed all of my friends and relatives explaining my support for Obama and asked them to go to my personal fundraising page and make a small donation online. Lots of them chipped in with small donations and that effort raised about $800. Next, I ended up contacting the owners of two local brew pubs who I knew to be a political progressives and I asked them about holding a fundraiser for Obama. The owners offered one of their brewpubs for the fundraiser. I had less than seven days to organize the fundraiser. I invited two fiction writers and a poet to give readings. I also invited three sets of musicians. I invited people from the social networking site at barackobama.com in addition to other folks I know. In spite of the short notice we had almost 80 people at the fundraiser and we raised $1270 for the campaign. Since then I've made three DVDs containing the ubiquitous "Yes We Can" music video, some other music videos, and of few Barack and Michelle Obama's speeches, including Obama's "A More Perfect Union" speech on the issue of race relations. I've made that DVDs available at my cost to anyone donating $10 or more online at barackobama.com. That effort has raised $250 in one day and to this date has raised $1350. In total my efforts have raised $3690 for Senator Obama's campaign. I've have also spent many hours calling hundreds of voters as part of Senator Obama's phone banking operation and, since I was denied the chance to campaign for Senator Obama in my home state of Michigan, I've spent many hours canvassing for Senator Obama in neighboring states. Recently I've been busy registering voters for the general election. My efforts are not unique. I know lots of other people doing the same thing. Through the social networking site on barackobama.com I've met likeminded individuals in all fifty states. This is the kind of involvement that Barack Obama has inspired from hundreds of thousands of people like me. I can't speak for the hundreds of thousands but I can speak for myself and say I will tirelessly raise money for Barack Obama's presidential campaign and for the Democratic Party if Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee for president of the United States. I will knock on doors to register voters and get out the vote if Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee for president of the United States. In other words, I will do whatever is within my abilities to see Barack Obama elected president of the United States. I will vote for Hillary Clinton if she is the Democratic nominee for president but it will be back to politics as usual for me. She'll get my vote but not my fundraising efforts or any other effort from me. Once again I'll be voting "against" someone rather than being "for" someone. I'll be against John McCain and a third "Bush" term than "for" Hillary Clinton.
The above paragraph is pretty much the essence of my argument to superdelegates about why they should support Obama and I must say that my reaction to Clinton as VP would be similar. I'll vote for an Obama/Clinton ticket mainly because of the issue of who McCain might appoint to the Supreme Court but a Clinton/Obama ticket will not get me to give cash and I'll cease my boots on the ground effort and go back to fighting for other activist causes and working with nonprofits. I don't believe that Michael Gerson ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/22/AR2008052203015.html ) is an Obama supporter but he captured my feelings when writing, "Obama does not merely talk of a new kind of politics; his charisma, story and tone symbolize a shift in political eras. Obama voters believe they are changing politics forever -- a claim that Al Gore or John Kerry could never credibly make."
Choosing Clinton as VP will (1) show that Obama is not the man I thought he was and (2) will display poor judgement and the trademark political calculation that is characteristic of the Clinton and the old school politics he "supposedly" eschews. It's not that I think he's perfect. I'm fully aware that he will disappoint if elected but choosing Clinton would be a drastic rejection of what he's supposed to stand for. If that's the choice he makes, I'm back to voting "against" the other guy instead of being "for" someone.
BTW, my first choice for VP is Kathleen Sebelius and I don't think I have a second choice.
Posted by Keith Hood | May 23, 2008 3:09 PM
Obama should stand up in public, announce that he offered her the job, and that she nobly declined.
I guess he shouldn't do that, but I can dream.
Posted by Acid J | May 23, 2008 3:41 PM
Why Hillary should not be VP:
From "Head of State"
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/05/head-of-state-reasons-that-hillary.html
Friday, May 23, 2008
Head of State: The Reasons That Hillary Should Not Be Vice President
Regarding Hillary Clinton as Barack Obama's running mate:
Originally, this seemed to be a potentially plausible choice--and if presented in the following way, could turn her divisive campaign into a potential coup as a VP candidate. The thinking was the following:
Hillary has run a divisive campaign. Now, just as the nation should mend its divisions in favor a greater unity that would serve the greater needs of our country, so now they would explicitly put these divisions behind them, in the interests of the unity that this nation, after a bitter and divisive Administration, so requires. This would serve as a powerful and vibrant example of the very ability to unify that Obama both offers and represents.
However, this would require a candidate that was willing to take such a position of relative shared selflessness in the interests of a greater good. While the Vice Presidency certainly offers its honors (now far beyond the "warm pitcher" of John Vance Garner's famous phrase) and positioning for later Presidential aspirations, such a plan would require the ability to think in terms of a shared effort based on the betterment of the nation, rather than in more grasping, combative and singular terms.
The Clinton camp's behavior over this past week has made such a positive scenario clearly untenable, showcasing the same characteristics that have signified her campaign throughout its long, chaotic march--its contradictions of previous statements when such changes have a slight possibility of adding a week or two of vitality, its sudden and implausible use of populist guises and specious historical parallels for transparently opportunistic purposes, its near-hallucinogenic transmogrifications of personality and central bases for continuation,
and the central campaign tendency to place personal attainment over virtually all values that lay in its path.
These characteristics--self over nation, positioning over a consistent presentation of position, values and even self, the willingness to put personal viability over the need to transcend and transform the vast wreckage of state and international relations that remains at this critical time--are as present now, at a moment when wisdom rather than a remorseless, obdurate desperation could fill this gap, as they have been throughout much of the campaign. They would continue to make themselves present during a Clinton campaign for vice president-- complicating, diminishing and often distracting from, in trivial internecine battles, the message of unity and change.
Perhaps Clinton could adopt a more unifying, integrated and less grasping position on the VP subject. However, thus far, the actions of the Clinton camp have made it clear: It's time to clean the slate. Hillary Clinton should not be the Vice Presidential candidate.
Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/05/head-of-state-reasons-that-hillary.html
Posted by Robert Hewson | May 23, 2008 3:57 PM
Everytime Obama supporters say he isn't going to do something (i.e. wear a flag pin, renounce Rev. Wright, etc...) Obama ends up showing some good sense and actually doing it.
The more his supporters on here rail about him not offering her the position, the more likely I think that it is that it will happen.
Posted by TeresaKopec | May 23, 2008 3:59 PM
Wow, thanks for that explanation, Keith Hood.
I really appreciate the insight into the thought processes of folks like yourself.
I'd just like to get something absolutely clear, so I hope that you'll forgive me for perhaps asking you to reiterate it.
I really didn't get any sense of why you were so enthused about someone with whom (I'm assuming) you haven't spent a great deal of time personally. I have re-read your post a number of times, now, and I can't figure out where in it you describe what exactly it is that you believe that Barack Obama will do once in office that Hillary Clinton will not do, and vice versa, except for a statement of agreement with Michael Gerson's opinion.
It should be said that Michael Gerson has been one of the biggest cheerleaders for the Iraq war not named Kristol or Kagan that one might think of, and that he wrote
Over the months, Obama's claim to be a post-partisan moderate has also frayed, especially on foreign policy. Even the most vigorous advocates of global diplomacy would not suggest unconditional, head-of-state talks with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela and North Korea -- exactly what Obama has promised. His foreign policy staff now admits that a series of lower-level meetings would be necessary to prepare for these summits -- hotel accommodations in Pyongyang are doubtless a challenge. But the problem is not with the preparation, it is with the pledge, which is not only wrong but ridiculous.
A simultaneous withdrawal from Iraq and an unconditional summit with Iranian leaders would be a capitulation to Iranian nuclear ambitions and terror sponsorship, a signal to our Sunni Arab allies that they will face the Iranian threat alone, and an unprecedented betrayal of Israel.
in the same opinion piece from which you quote, which makes this man's preferences and opinions quite strange bedfellows with your liberal activism. But setting aside for a moment how a professional neo-conservative ideologue could be capable of perfectly describing your feelings about Barack Obama, I'd like to ask you about that description.
You wrote:
Michael Gerson...captured my feelings when writing "Obama does not merely talk of a new kind of politics; his charisma, story and tone symbolize a shift in political eras. Obama voters believe they are changing politics forever..."
Do you really believe that you are "changing politics forever"? Do you really believe that "changing politics forever" will be accomplished through the "symbolism" of Barack Obama's "charisma, story and tone"?
Is that what you expect Barack Obama to do once in office, and so are working so hard, and giving up your hard earned money to accomplish his election? He's going to "change politics forever"?
Do I have that correct, Keith Hood?
Thanks so much in advance for your clarification, it's much appreciated!
Posted by stuart_zechman | May 23, 2008 4:01 PM
Wait, why would Harry Reid, Chris Dodd, Barbara Boxer, John Kerry, or Joe Biden simply step aside and give the post of Senate Majority Leader to Hillary?
All of them have more seniority and experience in the Senate than her. And according to the Hillary campaign experience is all that matters, at least that is what they used to say.
Moreover, given the Clinton's well known and intense desire to exact revenge on anyone who they think has wronged them, wouldn't they be crazy to give Hillary any leverage over them.
This notion the Clintonistas have that Hillary should simply be given things is ridiculous. This ain't bean bag, as Bill Clinton once said. If she wants to be President or Senate Majority leader, she has to earn it just like everyone else.
Working for your promotion worked for Nancy Pelosi, Christine Gregoire, Kathleen Sebilus, Margaret Thatcher, etc. Why shouldn't Hillary have to earn her promotion too?
(BTW, blowing the biggest fundraising and party establishment advantage that anyone has ever had doesn't exactly speak well of her qualifications to be Senate Majority Leader or VP.)
Posted by choska | May 23, 2008 4:03 PM
"..the chatter I'm hearing these days is that Hillary does not want the job.."
What do you expect - that the queen would make a public scene of taking second-class eagerly - even if she has no choice and desperately wants it? That is unseemly! The pride of the Clintons who never quit - even when debasing themselves!
The queen? Ha. What was that 'queen' in "Sunset Boulevard"?
"..Obama's polling swung around wildly ... whereas McCain stayed rather solidly .. no matter who he was matched with.."
The fact that McCain WAS already set in place as a nominee may have had some effect. Maybe voters perceived that they could make an impact in the case of Obama.
"..the right choice helps him tremendously and a wrong choice hurts him just as much.."
Don't stare at those polls too keenly. They are known to fluctuate wildly over time and pollsters, right?
"..apparently those talks aren't really happening after all.."
I won't hold my breathe. I will believe it when I see it.
Meanwhile, try to curb your eagerness, AMC. Won't you?
---
FlownOver wrote:
I smell a Colbert in the works – Hillary assures Obama she doesn't want the job, she only wants the OFFER. Whereupon he offers, and she ACCEPTS!
---
DAMN!
========
McCain is Cute: McCain lies and flip-flops - Nicholas Kristof calls it "refreshing" because he's so bad at it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/opinion/17kristof.html
Posted by chokora fukara | May 23, 2008 4:07 PM
Everytime Obama supporters say he isn't going to do something (i.e. wear a flag pin, renounce Rev. Wright, etc...) Obama ends up showing some good sense and actually doing it.
I truly to love what "good sense" has come to encompass in this campaign season. Accessorize!
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ثيمات رومنسية نوكيا - ثيمات الجيل الثالث -
23 - 23-p-3 - 23-p-6 -
نغمات -برامج نوكيا -برامج جوال -
برامج نوكيا N73 -نغمات -
برامج الجيل الثالث -العاب جوال -العاب نوكيا -
ثيمات2008 -نوكيا n95 -
نغمات ماجد المهندس -ماسنجر8 للجوال -الحارس الذكي n73 -نغمات عربي -نغمات MP3 -ماسنجر للجوال -65 - 65-p-3 -
65-p-5 -65-p-7 -رسائل جوال -مسجات -
رسايل وسائط -sms -
مسجات نصية -وسائط Mms -
صور وسائط -وسائط رومنسية -صور رومانسيه -
وسائط رومانسيه -مسجات شوق -وسائط بنات -رسائل حب -
وسائط حب -رسائل غرام -
وسائط حب رومانسية -وسائط شوق -وسائط حب وعشق -
وسائط حلوة -مسجات عتاب -
رسائل عتاب -مسجات نور ومهند -
مسجات وسائط -مسجات رومانسية -
وسائط حب رومانسية -مسجات اسلامية -
مسجات حب وغرام -رسائل غرام -
رسائل حب -مسجات حب -mms -وسائط ررومنسية روعة -رسائل مقالب -رسايل جديده -وسائط mms منوعة -
مسجات رومنسية -رسائل جوال -مسجات شعرية -وسائط دينية -مسجات استهبال -
مسجات حلوه -جميلات العرب -اليسا -
صور طبيعية -صور قلوب -
صور رومنسية -بلوتوث مزايين -
البوم صور مزايين - صور ماسنجر -
وسائط - صور حب -صور بنات -
صور بنات للمسن - العاب مكياج و ميك اب -
العاب ازياء - العاب مغامرات -
العاب بنات - العاب تلبيس بنات - العاب باربي -
العاب بلياردو - العب - العاب -
طرب وفن -طرب -فن -
10 -10-p-4 -
10-p-7 -10-p-13 -
10-p-10 -10-p-15 -10-p-20 -10-p-25 -
10-p-26 -فيديو كليب -فيديو كليب عربي -
فيديو كليب انجليزي -جميلات الهند -جميلات الاجانب -
صورة ميريام فارس -صوره شيماء علي -صور من كليب مهند ورولا -
فضايح مهند -فضائح -فضيحة مهند بطل مسلسل نور -صور نور -
صور منزل نور -صور ولادة نور في مسلسل نور التركي -
نجمة مسلسل نور التركي -صور Beren Saat خطيبة يحيى -صور يحيى -مهند شاذ -
اغاني سنوات الضياع -صور مهند ونور رومنسية -صور رومانسية نور ومهند -
صور مهند بطل مسلسل نور التركي -نهاية مسلسل نور -صور اليسا -
فيديو كليب تامر حسني - هي دي -العروسة فيديو كليب ماجد 2008 -صور فاردن وكارينا -
صور مي عز الدين 2008 -نيشان مقدم العراب -صور لميس -
صور لميس ويحيى -لحن اغنيه مسلسل سنوات الضياع -نؤاس اموري ياشمعتي -
صور بنت سعودية -صور اميشا -نجمة بوليوود -
صور لميس بطلة مسلسل سنوات الضياع -صور لميس نجمة سنوات الضياع -
سنوات الضياع -صور مهند بطل مسلسل نور -
يارا صدفة -تحبني ولا تحب الدراهم -
فضايح استار اكاديمي -هيفاء وهبي -
صور كاميرون دياز -احلام في العراب - البوم راشد و أحبابه -دومينك حوري الخاشوقة -
نانسي عجرم -فستان اليسا -
مركز تحميل - تحميل مفات -
تحميلت صور - تحميل -
صور - صور مضحكة -
باسكال مشعلاني -نانسي عجرم -
الين خلف -امل حجازي -
ديانا حداد -دارين حدشيتي -
ماري جوزي حنين -صور ديانا كرزون -
اريام -جميلات العرب -
مريام فارس -صور برق ورعد -
اليسا - صور طبيعية -
صور قلوب - صور رومنسية -
صور ماسنجر -وسائط -
صور بنات -صور بنات للمسن -
صور اشجار - صور حب -
صور شواطىء و بحار - صور سحـاب وغيوم -
صور أطفال - صور حيوانات -
صور إسلامية - صور منوعة -
صور خيول - صور متحركة -
صور رجالية للتصاميم - صور نسائية للتصاميم -
صور اطفال للتصاميم - صور شلالات وانهار -
صور قلوب - صور منوعة للتصاميم -
صور من تصويرك - صور وسائط MMS -
صور مرعبة - صور الأنمي -
صور رومنسية - صور دببة -
صور هدايا - صور سيارات -
صور خلفيات - صور ورد و زهور -
وسائط - صور شموع -
جميلات الاجانب - صور مسن كرتونية -
جوجو - اشلي سيمبسون -
هيلاري دوف - افرل لوفين -
جيسيكا البا - جورج كلوني -
جينيفر لوبيز - جينيفر آنستون - كرستينا اغوليرا -
ساندار بولوك - جوليا روبرتس -
آنجلينا جولي - تاركان -
برادبيت - توم كروز -
كيانو ريفز - مارك ولبرغ -
ريكي مارتن - انريكي ايجلاسيز -
جميلات الهند - صور حزينة -
صور الكاركتير - صور رجالية للتصاميم -
صور احترافية للتصاميم - صور تصاميم -
صور تصاميم وتواقيع - صور ماسنجر -
صور قلوب للمسن -صور مسن كتابية -
منوعات ماسنجر -صور مناسبات واسلاميات للمسن -
صور ايدي وارجل للمسن -صور اطفال مسن -
صور فنانين للماسنجر -صور بنات للمسن -
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26292831323334
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المنتدى العام مواضيع ساخنة ومثيرة ترجمة
ازياء موضة فساتين
مكياج ميك اب اكسسوارات ديكور غرف نوم
اثاث طبخ مطبخ حلويات اكلات معجنات تغذية صحة طب
شعر قصايد خواطر عذب الكلام
قصص روايات طرب رجة مسابقات صرقعة صور بلوتوث و مقاطع فيديو بلوتوث العاب فلاش صور انمي افلام انمي عدسة التصوير
افلام عربية و مسلسلات مسلسلات اجنبية تلفزيونية افلام عربية و افلام اجنبية و مسلسلات تلفزيونية برامج كمبيوتر فوتوشوب ثيمات - العاب الجوال - خلفيات برامج نوكيا - نغمات - برامج جوال رسائل جوال - مسجات - رسايل وسائط - sms مسنجر - برامج ماسنجر - توبيكات دروس التصميم
ملحقات التصميم
بلوتوث
-
برامج نوكيا -كورة -صور -
مسنجر - طرب -
العاب -
قصص - مكياج - موضة
- ديكور
- وسائط
- برامج
-افلام -
مقاطع فيديو -
مواضيع ساخنة -ثيمات
جوال -نغمات -
افلام انمي -خواطر -
العاب جوال -افلام
عربية -ازياء - صور
انمي -
سياحة -مسلسلات اجنبية -
شعر -اناشيد -
توبيكات -رسائل
جوال -تصاميم
شات
شات الرياض
بنت حواء
بنت نجد
عروسة
عروس
العاب شمس
صور رومنسيه
صور جميلة
احلى رومانسيه
منتديات بيت حواء -
ازياء - -فساتين زفاف 2008 -
موضة -فساتين -
6 -6-p-4 -6-p-9 -6-p-12 -أجمل فساتين -
فساتين بنات -فساتين ناعمة -
بيجامات ناعمه -فساتين قصيرة -
قمصان نومفساتين -
ملابس ناعمه -بجامات بنوتات -
فستان زفاف -ملابس اطفال -أكسسوارات -
ملابس 2008 -أزياء صيفية -فساتين -موضة 2009 -
أزياء بنات حلوة 2008 -موضة 2008 -
كولكشن صيفي -فساتين سهرة 2008 -فساتين زفاف 2008 -
موديلات فساتين -فساتين سهرة 2008 -
فساتين روعة 2008 -شورتات -
ديور -عروس -أزياء بنوتيه -ازياء -
فساتين السهرة -قمصان النوم -بلايز -
ازياء خطيره -ازياء نواعم -
أزياء للحوامل -أزياء حوامل -
اكسسوارات -ميك اب -
مكياج -72 -72-p-3 -72-p-5 -
72-p-7 -72-p-9 -
قصات شعر 2008 -مكياج ناعم -صور سلاسل -
مكياج -MaKe Up -
تسريحه روعه -العروس -
دبل الخطوبة -ساعات -
نقوش حنه -صور مكياج -
مكياج بنات ناعم -احلى التسريحات -
احلى القصات -اسرار العطور -
صور ميك اب -صور مكياج -
ميك اب روعه -صيف 2008 -
ميك اب -صور تسريحات 2008 -
تسريحات شعر قصير -تسرحيات شعر طويل -
تسريحات وقصات شعر -تسريحات شعر -قصات شعر -
شنط ماركات -صور مكياج -
تسريحات 2008 -صور احلى مكياج -
مكياج عروس 2008 -أحزمة بنات -
بطاقات زواج -ميك اب ناعم -
مكياج للبنات 2008 -مكياج للبنات -احلى مكياج بنات -
مكياج بنات -ميك اب 2008 -
تسريحة العروس -تسريحات شعر -تسريحات عرايس -
احدث القصات -صبغات 2008 -نضارات شمسيه -
تسريحات -مناكير -
اكسسوارات للبنوتات -احذية كريستيان -
احذية ديور Dior -سلاسل قلوب -
ديكور -غرف نوم -اثاث -
73 --73-p-3 --73-p-5 -
غرف نوم -غرف نوم بنوتيه -ديكورات -غرف نوم وردي -اكسسوار حائط -ورق جدران -
كوشات عروسه -ديكورات ماء -
مطابخ روعة -عالم البنوتات -
عالم البنات -ديكورات روعه -
غرف اطفال -مسابح -مكاتب وجلسات -مغاسل منزليه -
مخدات رومنسية -مغاسل حمام -
مخدات -صور ديكورات مطابخ -
ديكورات مطابخ 2008 -احلى ديكورات مطابخ -
ديكورات حمامات -اثاث 2008 -صور فلل -
ديكورات صالة -قصور واثاث -
معجنات -حلويات -اكلات -مطبخ -
طبخ -38 -
38-p-6 -38-p-9 -38-p-12 -38-p-3 -
38-p-14 -صور حلى -
صور حلويات -عمل بوفيه -
حلويات الجلكسي -حلا جالكسي بالصور -
حلى وحلويات -صور كيك -
صور تورتة - حلويات -اعشاب -
تغذية -رجيم -
طب -صحة -
71 -71-p-5 -
71-p-3 -71-p-7 -
التدليك -المساج -
جميلات العرب -اليسا - -
صور طبيعية -صور قلوب - -
صور رومنسية -بلوتوث مزايين - -البوم صور مزايين - -
صور ماسنجر -وسائط - -
صور حب -
صور بنات -صور بنات للمسن - -
العاب مكياج و ميك اب - -العاب ازياء - -العاب مغامرات - -
العاب بنات - -العاب تلبيس بنات - -العاب باربي - -
العاب بلياردو - -العب - -العاب -
العاب - -العاب فلاش - -66 - -
العاب بنات - -العاب أزياء - -
العاب مكياج - -العاب ميك اب - -
العاب باربي للبنات - - العاب باربي - -
العاب تلبيس - - العاب بنات - -
مكياج ملكة - العاب مكياج - -العاب اميرة - مكياج وميك - -
مكياج باربي كين - العاب - -لعبة مكياج الأميرات العاب - -
مكياج الفتيات العاب - -لعبة كاونتر سترايك -
لعبة مكياج فتاة جميلة -مكياج الورود لعبة مكياج - -
العاب أزياء - العاب بنات -العاب مكياج و ميك اب العاب لعب جديدة وحصرية - -
لعبة سوبر ماريو - -دراجون بول للتحميل لعبة - -
العاب باربي - العاب باربي - -لعبة حرامي السيارات - لعبة GTA - San Andreas - -
تلبيس الجاسوسات الثلاث -العاب بنات - العاب تلبيس -
لعبة تسديد على الزجاجه - -لعبة Medal Of Honorلعبة اتارى العاب فلاش -لعبة الدودة العاب فلاش -
لعبة بلياردو حديثة -لعبة توصيل الطماطم -
ميك اب و اكسسوارات للبنات -لعبة ميك اب متنوع -
ملابس المهنة لعبة للبنات - -لعبة تنس المضرب - -
لعب : ميك اب فتيات - -مكياج شتوي لعبة بالفلاش - -ترتيب غرفة في المنزل -
لعبة اكس او x-o - -لعبة الرجل الطائر -لعبة توم و جيري العاب -
البيت المرعب الفلاشية -تصوير الفنانات لعبة - -صندوق الكنز لعبة فلاشية -
لعبة روليت كازينو -لعبة الصبر - -فري سل لعبة الذكاء -
لعبة بلوت سوليتير -لعبة تركيب القطة بوسى -لعبة كرة قدم فلاشية -لعبة الرجل الأخضرالفلاشية - -لعبة الطائرة المجنونة -
لعبة دهس الناس بالسيارات -لعبة الشبح والاشباح -
لعبة تعليم الطبخ - -لعبة مكياج للبنات -
تلبيس الباربي بالفلاش - -لعبة Prison Break بريزن بريك - -
قيادة دراجة السكوتر من احلى العاب السباقات - -لعبة سباق السرعة - -
سباق سيارات لعبة حلوة - لعبة شطرنج لمحبيها فقط -
العاب فلاش لعبة قتال النينجا - -المحارب اليوناني - -
لعبة مصارعة رومانية -محارب الاشباح تعال اذا - -
لعبة سوبر مان - -قتال الليل لعبة فلاشية -
ماتركس لعبة حلووة -العاب لعب العاب بنات العاب باربي العاب متنوعة العاب اكشن العاب تسلية - -
لعبة اختبر ذاكرتك -مونوبولي لعبة الشراء والاحتكار وعربية - -
لعبة الاختلافات بين الصور - -حرب السفن البحرية - -
من سيربح المليون - -لعبة السلالم - -
قوة الفا لعبة طائرات - -Tribes 3 Vengeance كاملة - -
لعبة الجواهر المتشابهة -حرب السفن لعبة فلاشية - -
لعبة الاعداء - -لعبة الجمباز - -لعبة كرة السله بالشارع -
لعبة ميك اب فلة make up fulla - -لعبة تلبيس بنات - -
لعبة تحدي ودم للرركب اعرف عدوك من حبيبك -
1234567
1314815102130
17162320252427
26292831323334
37383536394041
42434445464758
53544855564957
50596051616252
11126364
المنتدى العام مواضيع ساخنة ومثيرة ترجمة
ازياء موضة فساتين
مكياج ميك اب اكسسوارات ديكور غرف نوم
اثاث طبخ مطبخ حلويات اكلات معجنات تغذية صحة طب
شعر قصايد خواطر عذب الكلام
قصص روايات طرب رجة مسابقات صرقعة صور بلوتوث و مقاطع فيديو بلوتوث العاب فلاش صور انمي افلام انمي عدسة التصوير
افلام عربية و مسلسلات مسلسلات اجنبية تلفزيونية افلام عربية و افلام اجنبية و مسلسلات تلفزيونية برامج كمبيوتر فوتوشوب ثيمات - العاب الجوال - خلفيات برامج نوكيا - نغمات - برامج جوال رسائل جوال - مسجات - رسايل وسائط - sms مسنجر - برامج ماسنجر - توبيكات دروس التصميم
ملحقات التصميم
بلوتوث
-
برامج نوكيا -كورة -صور -
مسنجر - طرب -
العاب -
قصص - مكياج - موضة
- ديكور
- وسائط
- برامج
-افلام -
مقاطع فيديو -
مواضيع ساخنة -ثيمات
جوال -نغمات -
افلام انمي -خواطر -
العاب جوال -افلام
عربية -ازياء - صور
انمي -
سياحة -مسلسلات اجنبية -
شعر -اناشيد -
توبيكات -رسائل
جوال -تصاميم
لعب -العاب لعب -العب -العاب العب -العاب فلاش -العاب فلاشية -
العاب لعب العب -العاب مكياج و ميك اب -
العاب متنوعة -العاب مغامرات -
العاب أزياء -العاب اكشن -
العاب الرمايه -العاب الغاز و تفكير -
العاب الغاز و تفكير -العاب استراتيجيه -
العاب اطفال -العاب بلياردو -
العاب بنات -العاب باربي -
العاب تلبيس بنات -العاب تسلية -
العاب رياضيه -العاب سيارات -
العاب طيارات -مكياج الورود -
مكياج فتاة جميلة -مكياج الفتيات -
مكياج الأميرات -لعبة تعلم المكياج -
لعبة مكياج الملكة -مكياج وميك اب اميرة -
لعبة صنع مكياجك بنفسك -لعبة تلوين الشفايف -
لعبة مكياج فله فلة -ميك اب الجميلات -
ميك اب السعادة -لعبة مكياج الجميلات -
استايل مكياجك -لعبة أزياء الصيف -
لعبة السنوكر -لعبة بلياردو فاخرة -
لعب البلياردو في 60 ثانية -بلياردو للمبتدئين -
لعبة البلياردو الإحترافية -لعبة أزياء أنيقة -
ميك اب للضيوف -طبخ الافطار -
الرجل الأخضر -لعبة الصبر -
لعبة مكاسره بالذراع -لعبة الافعى -
بلياردو المحترفين -Lucky Clover -
Boa -صندوق الكنز -
تمييز الاصوات -السكة الحديد تاجر 3 -
ميجا مان مقصف : وقت المحاكمه -Xiao Xiao 8 -
امساك الديك -فضاء المعارك -
مركبتك الفضائيه -Xiao Xiao 2 -
مصغره skears 2 -الفايكنك -
الصخرة الانطلاق -فندق الشبح 10 -
شبح فندق 3 -الجنون مكافحة -
الديدان المستوى 1 -Squeeby القاتل -
وحش الفندق 7 -اللعبه -
تور : سحق ماستر -سوبر ماريو العاشر -
الاطار السلكي الهيكل العظمي -المراوغه الاوساط -
Bouncy الكرة -فلاش ماريو Bros -
وجبه فانوس -قلعة القط -
شرير - س - ماتيتش -رحلة قوس قزح -
Xiao Xiao 3 -بوبي العالم -
الغمزه : اللعبة -الكرة سباحه -
حامي المستكشف -رحلة قوس قزح -
سقوط بوش -العياده -
التدخل الالهي -اسلحه الدمار -
د - السور اللعبة -انديانا جونز الاعلام والتوعيه -
السنجاب الاسكواش -ميتل جير عيد 2 -
Impossi - فقاعة Adv. - الدبابات الصغرى -
Xiao Xiao 9 -مشاهدة اصل -
Fishy! -Zwill 2 -
Xiao Xiao 4 -البوصلة الجيروسكوبيه الكرة -
Xiao Xiao 7 -الرجل الأخير الداءمه -
تفاعليه boogy -ميجا مان العاشر المقبل -
Morganica الحروب -مو سكران -
الدوده -فندق الاشباح 6 -
SWAT -ايمينيم الهوس -
التلميذ المقيم السماء -فريدي -
الرقص بلير -الديدان المستوى 2 -
راعي السلاحف -الطنان -
الدفاع عن القلعة الخاصة بك -زين -
دولفين الوثبه -المنازعات المحلية -
Jak 3 : الطبعه الذهب -اصفع القرد! -
سيدة عمرها والذبابه -ساعة الأساطير -
تفاعليه boggy 2 -Boo -
السماء التلميذ المقيم : ام اكس -Wacked! Mission Mode -
Shadow of the Warrior -Nerd Quest -
Red Devil RPG2 -الفارس الشجاع -
طرزان الغابة -Escape from Elm Street -
Fantasy Quest -رحلة سونيك 1 -
The Doors -Corridor -
Found Lost -Star Cruiser -
Mutomba -Fruits -
Magical Stars -Street Life -
سوبر ماريو 1 -سونيك في الجزيره -
الاعتداء الجزء 2 -مغامرات بقرة -
قصة الساحر -Adventures of Blob Bob -
Ray - Part 1 -هجوم الجزء 5 -
مغامرات جاك -Adventures of Guy - RPG -
Ambition -الاعتداء جزء 1 -
طائرو دودج -التكبر -
يوم في المدرسه -انقاذ تيمي -
شات
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