The Yoo Memo

"By this incredibly dangerous and misguided reasoning, any interrogator who tortured or cruelly mistreated a prisoner could not be held responsible so long as he wasn't inspired by malice or sadism -- as long as, in other words, he was just following orders."

How, EXACTLY, do you come to any such round logic conclusion about INTENT, or leadership?

Stop whacking our armed forces upside the head, but for the sake of some State Dept slackers that don't McGovernite shiite from shineola.

It's a particularly shocking document when you read it as a lawyer.

This shameful memo will stand up next to the legal writing in defense of Dred Scott and Plessy in it's legalistic immorality.

Jay - Thanks for linking to this. I haven't read it yet, and don't know if I will. But I believe this is also the memo where Yoo argued that since it is lawful to kill in war, anything that stops short of killing must be lawful, because surely death is worse. That has struck me an astonishingly depraved and specious argument. Will we ever recover our moral authority?

This administration truly does believe that the Constitution is, as W reportedly once put it, "just a g-d'ed piece of paper." They and their supporters are brazenly anti-American.

Yoo's nickname at the DOJ was Dr. Yes. This sinister memo authorizing war crimes was REQUESTED of Yoo. Mr. Yoo didn't just hop out of bed one morning and say "I must persuade the President to start torturing detainees!" Cheney, Addington, Bush, Gonzales, and the whole sick Texas authoritarian crew decided to move America over to the "Dark Side." And there were plenty of Dark Siders in the American Press too, including a certain Time Magazine writer who said Americans were "ambivalent" about torture.

As more of the horrors leak out of the Bush administration, Americans will be progressively more ashamed that they elected these gangsters and gave them the power of life and death over millions of people. This truly was America's darkest hour, and we remain in the foul darkness of deceit and crime.

So Obamish uses a tag that links back to a David Brooks columns. Doesn't that break some kind of agreement we make here? please?

Apparently Yoo issued this opinion on a Saturday, one day after Jay Bybee left the administration, and it was repudiated by Jack Goldsmith when he came on board.

I wonder what the law is on subjecting Yoo to war crimes charges. Is the simple fact that he issued a legal opinion designed to give cover to war crimes such as torture enough. Is the fact that his legal opinions were universally recognized to be shoddy, at best, relevant? (Note that he doesn't even mention Youngstown, which is the case on presidential authority).

This guy wrote an article on Clinton's presidency called "The Imperial Presidency Abroad," about Clinton's overstretching of presidential powers related to national security.

He knew that what he was writing was not a legal analysis.

He intended to provide a fig leaf intended to permit the president and vice president to commit the war crimes they felt the urge to commit. (As HH points out, that's where the impetus for this came from).

Thanks for the post, Jay.

Speaking of alleged torture, has old PA yeller Sgt Smurfa (never of combat in Haditha, or much elsewhere not federally domestically funded) apologized to the United States Marine Corps yet?

"The ends justify the means."

STOP PICKING ON HILLARY CLIXON.

We have known for some time the general contents of the 81-page memo offering a legal rationale for torture techniques that John Yoo

There, fixed that for you.

Admiral Obama will most certainly lead us to victory in Pakistan and Peoria, based on his keen understanding of military science...

1. Thinks Pensacola probably tastes a lot like Pepsi, only with half the calories.

2. Overheard recent House armed services committee discussion about Fort Lewis, immediately started humming "Heart of Rock & Roll".

3. During first eight months of initial Senate term he kept referring to DOD HQ as the "Pentangle".

4. Still can't find Rwanda, Somalia, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Indonesia, or Pakistan on John Kerry's waterproofed map of Greater Cambodia.

5. Thinks a flag officer is an elevated school crossing guard in select East Coast suburbs.

6. Saw war hero John McCain on CNN talking from the Fort Bragg O-Club, automatically assumed chat location had something to do with Oprah.

7. General Powell asked him to visit the Gitmo BX some time. He said "Great, I love those cool California dirt bikes."

8. Demands our troops withdraw now from Philadelphia, NOLA, and Compton, since the civil wars there are most certainly lost, and those people really don't want us there anyway.

9. Never visited Pearl Harbor while in Hawaii, since he already owned enough Miki Moto and Maui Wowee.

10. Thinks Hitler, Stalin, Ho, and Castro were just misunderstood, and a lot of sensitive smiling would have made things all better at Yalta, Hanoi, Buchenwald, and the Bay of Pigs.

11. Whenever he's scheduled to meet someone about the 1st Cav, brings a tooth brush and a tube of Crest.

12. Told in no uncertain terms by Joe Biden that "NTC" stands for Nightly Talent Club. Believed it. Later blamed the evil Canadian president.

13. Convinced the Apollo space mission was named after a theater in Harlem, and has half a moon walk to prove it.

14. Believes the venerable Old Guard is comprised of Robert Byrd, Nancy Pelosi, Hugo Chavez, and Jane Fonda, plus Ted Kennedy's liver.

15. Just another half-baked, half-imported also-ran at the 2008 Senate Democrat Party Spelin Bee.

Our failure as a people to charge Bush and Cheney with articles of impeachment has given permission to this continued abuse of constitutional authority. If not for this, then what?

Shorter obamish:

(hands over ears)

lahlahlahlahlahlahlah....

Thanks, Jay.

Liberals loathing the troops and our elected leaders from the safe space of their non-hemp powered PC's made from mined ores?

Priceless!

It is interesting to see how a homegrown fascist like Obamish responds to this issue. And it's interesting that someone who is currently incarcerated -- as he is -- would take this attitude.

Oh say can you see and hear me now, my fellow tenured Amnesians?

What I said, and have electoral college hope too, Pizza & Just Ice small mall franchise people, that one fine day I might carry a single NRA member state in the South or Midwest, and all that other buzzy buzz buzzword bogus news jazz from Old New York, as we are gathered here today in [name any empty AAFL arena] to dedicate our sadly non-union forces if not my own cute unemployable union constituents to the impending invasion of virtually tankless Canada.

Mind you, we can forgive Canuckistan their marginal comedy contributions to border security at Horseshoe Falls, that has kept Al Queda from rolling over the Martin Lawrence Seetheway into the bedrooms of Vermonters visiting mostly French relatives a tad north of Burlington's biggest political blowhard since OVM dropped their football program, but be ever mindful as the sun shines grayly through the massive winter snows of this awful Global Upstate Warmup season, that our men and gayer men in Clinton-era hot hot uniforms will do their Kerry duty fastest, just as so many future Kennedy kinsmen have done before, from the steamy shores of Paris to the steamy shorts of Hyannisport, but for the benefit of corn rows and corn stills alike, Allah Allah In Come Free Amen.

NAFTA is not a four-letter noun perhaps, but when splitting legal semantics and skipping floor votes I've learned through about a year of actual day job experience not federally EEOC funded for fans of Rezko Realty, that there's nothing like talking when action only seems to get in the way, and by my blessed Koran fed fealty of Farrakhan quiet rioting I will lead our shrill, strident shortly All Lesbian Armed Forces and their stunning Stirrup Pants Brigade, mightily helped by SecDef Dean and Ambassador to Rural America Oprah, in a media rousing, ever loud even foray for five minutes or so until we can relent to the sortie of metroshizzle feel good times that form the thin-skinned cornerstone of my borderline cowardly and certainly populist pinhead campaign.

Taking back Toronto from the Jews and Chinese may not make the world go away, but as Hillary so boldly showed us in Waco and Christina Airport, it does tend to keep poodle people from speculating on such sally matters as fiscal restitution, troop hemp readiness, blowout tax policy, freeish market growth, South Boston reparations, sustainable eco-families, and female facial hair.

I ask you all to partially pray for the remaining officers and senior NCO's that won't bolt from the Army and Marines the second I'm voted American Idle, and their bi-sexual next of California union dolt kin, as we move across the Manitoba wheat killing fields, into the rink dangers that are Winnipeg, and on to swishy Vancouver to once and for all trounce the many poor examples of late 70's architecture and gangling paved public parks, that have for too long been the bastion of undertaxed out of state freeloaders not on eBay skimming the profits from the vital public access medical channels that our Take A Number killer nurse mavens can't wait to replicate for total financial ruin, during my shining First 100 Days in incompetence and AARP collusion.

Faint not no more cold Wiscasset lager and cigarette crowds expecting a moral miracle, your selfish self-imposed hell of a whining suburban PTA period will soon be over, as the Grand Army of the Pelosi fords Hamilton Beach and Molson Wetlands, to unify the forces of mental goop, and rid ourselves of the Axis of Ice that empowers few but enshowers nuns when they get the new blue line rules, such rules being something we might soon assimilate whether we need to or not, for the goal being not just goals but excessive goals paper pusher burrocrat stockpiles speaking, so forever may it legal hack rain.

Give Me A "B", Give Me An "O", thanks for coming today and remember to vote for meesa and VEEP nom Cindy Shiite on November 14th against that old war hero Surge guy, singing off Stevie Wonder until free supper, Yours Truly Senator Q-Tip.

HH is quite right. But don't leave Don Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz out of that list of the damned. They were the operational drivers of that push to justify torture. The Cheney-Rumsfeld connection cannot be overstated.

Thanks for addressing this.

Is now a good time to mention that the same logic which allows the DOJ to exonerate people in advance of their violating the law is also the basis for the President and the NSA's longstanding violation of the FISA statute?

In case anyone had forgatten.....

If you're not doing anything to aid or abet the enemies of America and our true allies, why worry?

BTW, did I mention I found nothing wrong with harsh interrogation techniques?

While McCain remains the clear choice among the rather poor POTUS panel we've convened for 2008, he's 100% wrong about closing Gitmo -- unless the Kennedy compound in Hyannisport has room available.

BTW, did I mention I found nothing wrong with harsh interrogation techniques?

I may have.

How is it that Paul Lukasiak, Titus Pullo, and others can be permanently banned, yet QH is left to spam swampland in perpetuity? I'm guessing QH/obamish must be Stengel's nom de plume for participating here. Is there any other explanation for the lack of banning?

"BTW, did I mention I found nothing wrong with harsh interrogation techniques?"

We kinda guessed that, obamish. I would never in the world mistake you for someone who has a shred of empathy or decency.

BTW, did I mention I found nothing wrong with harsh interrogation techniques?

If QH/Obamish is one end of the normal distribution of savagery, when is Jesus going to show up here?

"We kinda guessed that, obamish. I would never in the world mistake you for someone who has a shred of empathy or decency."

Yes, the terrorists always respond better to American kindness than our alleged military cruelty.

I also have some waterfront property in Haditha that you and John Murtha might like.

At least we know where question hillary went right obamish. The smell of a troll will always follow you QH.

Anon,

Titus Pullo got banned? How did that happen?

Liberals think I'm a threat to their freedom?

Typical.

HH: Don't you realize, Jesus is on QH's side!

No we think your a asshat!

Jay - I'm curious what kind of law Yoo now teaches, and I'd have loved to see how the people hiring him at Berkeley took his distortion of the law into account when hiring him. I've seen Yoo a couple of times on CNN as a consultant, and could hardly believe it. But he hasn't appeared for awhile, so I wonder if CNN took heat for it. Let's see them bring him on to explain this memo.

"Yes, the terrorists always respond better to American kindness than our alleged military cruelty."

I think there's been a few studies that show this, actually. I mean, that's kind of the plan - build up civilization in third world countries, make them prosperous, and then they won't spawn the disenfranchised zealots that turn into terrorists.
Even Bush pays lip service to this notion.

Lukasiak was banned? I did not know that.

Coming This Fall to Persian HDTV (check your local underground nuke lab listings)...

- Dancing With The Infidels

- Survivor Albany

- Monday Night Men's Field Hockey

- Bill & Mace

- Mutual of Omaha's Wild Burkas

- CSI: Sid Bloominshorts

- NASCAR Summer's Eve 250

- Tehran PD Bloopers

- The Amazing Racists

- Doprah

- The Tonight Show starring Katie Couric

- Dialing For Dissidents (sponsored by Yahoo!)

- EU

- Last Hollywood Heroin Addict Standing

- Hugo Chavez Comedy Hour (sponsored by Citgo)

- Dirty Sexy Monica

- Found

- Lord of the Ringworm

- My Favorite Shiite

- TV's Funniest New Jersey Hookers

- Slutty Betty

- Meet The Meatheads

- 60 Seconds

- Wide World of Willy Warts

- Sing Along With Allah

- So You Think You Can Douche

- Surrender Accomplished (AKA The Martin Sheen Show)

"Jay - I'm curious what kind of law Yoo now teaches, and I'd have loved to see how the people hiring him at Berkeley took his distortion of the law into account when hiring him. I've seen Yoo a couple of times on CNN as a consultant, and could hardly believe it. But he hasn't appeared for awhile, so I wonder if CNN took heat for it. Let's see them bring him on to explain this memo."

Shouldn't you be out censoring cereal boxes or something?

Lukasiak was certainly banned, as he later showed up on the "tuned in" blog under the name "banned in swampland". This followed some comments of his towards Klein that could have been considered of a rather personal nature.

I don't know for sure if Pullo has been banned, but he certainly has not been seen since making some rather unflattering comments about Mr. Scherer and Ms. McCain.

Banning is certainly part of life here at swampland, though I don't know what exactly define the limits (QH & T4T are all interesting studies in this). Perhaps it would be helpful if the High Sheriffs explained to the commentariat what could lead one to be banned, rather than just disappearing folks without further explanation.

I find it extremely apropos that any memo authored by John Yoo is released on Autism Awareness Day.

http://www.mb.com.ph/OPED20080402120813.html

Why does the conservative movement rely so heavily on high-functioning autistics to formulate their policies?

Obamish, once and for all: are you in an asylum or a jail right now? I've asked before and gotten no answer.

Terrorists behead U.S. troops and military contractors?

Liberals say THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS TO EVIL OCCUPIERS (never mind long forgotten Germany, Japan, Korea, Italy, Berzerkley).

U.S. troops slap some terror scum upside the head?

OUTRAGE!

BUTCHERS!

IMPEACHMENT!

Allah only knows you don't want to get stuck behind anyone from Sausalito undecided in the 10 Items or Less line, eh?

Oh well.

= RWANDA HAPPENS =

Aaaaaand slowly we see QH decend into stark, raving lunacy. Here in a few minutes he'll be incapable of saying anything besides:
RWANDA BILLARY CLIXON IS AHMEDINEJAD BOMB

This is classic -- fro mthe Vanity Fair article:

Ideas arose from other sources. The first year of Fox TV’s dramatic series 24 came to a conclusion in spring 2002, and the second year of the series began that fall. An inescapable message of the program is that torture works. “We saw it on cable,” Beaver recalled. “People had already seen the first series. It was hugely popular.” Jack Bauer had many friends at Guantánamo, Beaver added. “He gave people lots of ideas.”

The brainstorming meetings inspired animated discussion. “Who has the glassy eyes?,” Beaver asked herself as she surveyed the men around the room, 30 or more of them. She was invariably the only woman present—as she saw it, keeping control of the boys. The younger men would get particularly agitated, excited even. “You could almost see their d!cks getting hard as they got new ideas,” Beaver recalled, a wan smile flickering on her face.

That really sounds a lot like Obamish to me.

WAKE THE HELL UP, LIBTARDIAN PEA BRAINS.

The TACTICAL evidence IS that when we STUPIDLY released a few of the worst of the worst from Gitmo before (under the media weight of lefty loon, Carteresque political correctness)?

THEY WENT RIGHT BACK TO THE BATTLE FIELD (though their hair was cleaner, if not their souls).

The terrorists will kill you, without regard, as you sit still silly in your condescending Birkenstocked Volvo coupe, faster than you can scream SHEEN at a 9-11 conspiracy rally under the Gazitian banner.

They care about NOTHING other than universal chaos and death.

That you spend ANY Time, given the late date, questioning the motives or tactics of our troops and elected leadership IS patently, pathologically, and masochistically ludicrous.

God help you, because the terror scum won't.

What IS is.

I'll take that as a "yes, I am in a jail/asylum".

Anon Perhaps it would be helpful if the High Sheriffs explained to the commentariat what could lead one to be banned, rather than just disappearing folks without further explanation.

Not that I'm one of them, but I'd guess that it might have something to do with making excessively derogatory remarks about one of the posters. Criticism, yes; obsession, no.

I'm noticing that QH/Obamish doesn't go off on Klein or Carney, so he/she/it IS allowed to hang around, derailing what would otherwise be decent comment threads...

KathyR

Embarrassingly enough, consitutional law, mostly:

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/faculty/profiles/facultyCourses.php?facID=235

Thread - If you respond to obamish, or pay him any attention at all, then you have allowed him to succeed in hijacking the topic away from the crimes of the Bush administration.

Ignore him.

Allow him to show the world the bankruptcy of the conservative movement. Nothing but a bunch of pernicious, name-calling thugs.

But I'll bet he at least spells it right.

Sigh.

Chilling. I would rather die as an American than live as an enabler of this.

Wow,,,nothing new here..just a bunch of loonie left whackos attacking our troops and blaming america first.."yea Yea..lets impeach Bush Cheney..Cheney Bush bad..yea..and it's all Rove's fault" very pathetic..why not spend as much energy bashing your country and it's policies on supporting your country and the troops...alot of BDR here ( Bush Derangement Syndrome).hahahahaha

Jayackroyd. I was afraid of that.

If the "freedom loving" liberals supported the troops as much as they support blog censorship?

Hell, we might actually win this war.

jimmyjamz:
Suggesting that torture is okay doesn't support the troops. It clearly subjects them to torture without compunction from any hands they may find themselves in now or in the future.

"Obamish, once and for all: are you in an asylum or a jail right now?"

I'm in your mother.

She says hi.

I'm in your mother.

She says hi.

Ban him.

Hell, we might actually win this war.

That would be a defeat for you QH/Obamish, because war is what you love. You are like the asylum patient in "Gravity's Rainbow" whose health waxes and wanes with the intensity of WWII. Since all three Presidential candidates are committed to continuing the WAR ON TERROR, you should enjoy robust health indefinitely.

"I'm in your mother.

She says hi.

Ban him."

Hey man.

You asked.

BTW, she wants to know if it is OK for me to run her Jag down to the Jiffy Lube, or do you want me to take it to the dealer like last time?

"I'm in your mother.

She says hi."

That's actually kinda funny. Say what you want about the crazy SOB, he knows a good mom joke.

I'd be in a bad mood if I was getting raped in the showers every day, too, I'm sure, Obamish. I'll try to remember that and cut you some slack from now on.

"...in a bad mood..."

Double up on your Midol, and cut back on the Tuna Helper.

No, no, no… if he's banned, it'll just be an example of the very loss of freedom he advocates for us all. Let him rave, as a sort of pole star of lunacy.

It's the same reason I support Klan parades – get 'em out in public so we can know whose opinions aren't worth spit.

""...in a bad mood..."

Double up on your Midol, and cut back on the Tuna Helper."

And now QH is back to beating the English language like a trailer park wife.

Way to cushion the Bush torture regime with all the "we already knew" business. In that spirit, I'll say "we already knew" that Jay Carney is kind of a torture fan himself. I remember Carney's fascistically titled post "The Torture Question" (here) in which he says:

"there is so much ambivalence in the land about extreme interrogation methods, what constitutes torture and whether torture administered by Americans should ever be permitted under any circumstances."

The fact that you'll go out of your way to accomodate torture apologists tells me you're a morally decrepit waste of humanity, and as Jeremiah Wright might say, a proud member of the US of KKK A. Go to hell.

Threadjacking complete.

Notice how no one's talking about John Woo or the unitary executive theory anymore.

Their are new lies, old lies, and old liberal lies, when it comes to The General Consensus (though that's about as close to a General as any lib will ever get, aside from watching General Hospital) on today's politics.

The most common and easily the most nauseating fibs include these winners...

:: "Abu Ghraib was the status quo"

:: "We've made torture legal"

:: "We're an illegal occupying force (wherever we go)"

:: "Chavez, Castro, Ho, and Stalin meant well, but were simply as misunderstood as Bin Laden and Arafat"

:: "U.S. troops should be assumed guilty of murder until their innocence IS proved on a Friday night after the CNN news cycle closes."

:: "All We Are Saying, Give Penis A Chance" [Sorry, that's the 2008 Team Clixon campaign platform. My bad.]

:: "Americans export all pollution and terrorism, and give nothing."

:: "The Indonesian killer waves were caused by Disney World."

:: "Never mind that intern and/or hooker behind the AT&T curtain and/or Ovum Orifice desk."

:: "Appeasement works. Ask any Rwandan."

:: "I did not have sex with that Cali lawyer's dog."

Did I miss anything?

Speaking of torture, has Al Gore endorsed Obama yet?

Paul Dirks - I already absorbed that Yoo wrote the memo authorizing the military to use torture. What more can be said? I'm not surprised or shocked that BAD PEOPLE are in our nation's highest offices.

So I choose to argue with QH, because sometimes I like arguing with a fencepost.

QH should never be banned. He is the best living blog example of an American Authoritarian Kool Aid Overdose. His writings should be posted in every school in America so that students can recognize the symptoms.

"By this incredibly dangerous and misguided reasoning, any interrogator who tortured or cruelly mistreated a prisoner could not be held responsible so long as he wasn't inspired by malice or sadism -- ...."

The main purpose of the memo, as with many of this administration's endeavors, is to evade accountability. How can you establish that the interrogator was motivated by sadism or malice? Not easy to establish the mental state of the interrogator when he's likely to deny vehemently any such motivation. In effect, therefore, the torturer is unaccountable.

But the same lack of accountability starts at the very top. You write:

"We've known that it proclaimed the President of the United States to be almost entirely above the law when it comes to protecting the nation's security in a time of war."

Whether the president is acting above the law to protect national security or avoid accountability can never really be determined. As long as we permit the president to act above the law in certain circumstances, we have to accept the presidential prerogative to assert whenever he chooses that the circumstances in question indeed involved national security.

jimmyjamz, nobody is attacking our troops or America. The neocons are to be held accountable for this war and the cost it has had upon those in the military and the image of our country.

The traitors to the American Way are Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfiwitz and almost every other neocon.

I don't believe for a second the greenlighting of torture was about protecting American's here in the US, but was a means to get "evidence" that would support the invasion. This disgusting memo was written a year and a half after 9/11.

As a public service, I am posting a relevant article from the mighty Fafblog:

Would You, Could You, In A Box?

There's a bomb on the streets of Hypotheticopolis - a ticking bomb! - and only Giblets can stop it! But time is running out and in order to find it Giblets may have to resort to the first weapon of last resort: torture. But oh how to apply it in this delicate moral quandry!

Detainee #0001: ABU MUHAMMED AL-HITLER. An evil Islamist Nazi space beast from space, only he knows the location of the secret marble-sized Death Bomb that could explode the world at any moment! He is also made of poison and eats babies by the bucket! TORTURE or NOT TORTURE? Giblets doesn't have to think about this one - he's made of poison, people! Giblets will of course regret this terrible violation of human rights and civil liberties, almost as much as he will regret enjoying it.

Detainee #0002: ABU MOHAMMED AL-HITLER. So Giblets grabbed the wrong al-Hitler the first time. How was Giblets supposed to know Muhammed was such a common name! But now Giblets has his man! - probably! - and he isn't talking. TORTURE or NOT TORTURE? There is no question about it with the zillions of lives at stake! The good of the many! The good of the one! But oh how Giblets feels for human rights! Giblets will pour one out for his human rights homies when he is done.

Detainees #0003-#0026: A BUSLOAD OF GUYS WHO MIGHT HANG OUT WITH ABU MOHAMMED AL-HITLER. Okay, so that last guy didn't seem to know anything either. But we've grabbed this bus coming out of the Terror District in Terrortown and some of these guys gotta be terrorists! Right now all of 'em deny everything, but that's just what you'd expect of the lousy terrorist buddies of a baby-eating Nazi. TORTURE or NOT TORTURE? Well, it's a big bus! Some of 'em have to deserve it, so bring it on - we still have a ticking bomb to find! 'Course there's gonna be innocent victims which will be a terrible tragedy. Oh, the fog of war, oh the eggs and omelettes! Mmmm, omelettes. Giblets could really go for one of those right about now.

Detainee #0027: DR. PEPPER. Nothin' feels better in the middle of a long hard day of torture than a tall frosty glass of Dr. Pepper. The only thing this prisoner is aiding and abetting is refreshment!

Detainee #0028: PIZZA MAN JOE. The bus terrorists were useless! But they did give Giblets the name of Pizza Man Joe, the pizza delivery man who may very well have delivered hot, deliciously Islamist pizza to Abu Mohammed al-Hitler at his secret bomb base! He claims he doesn't remember where he dropped off those sleeper-cell cinnamon stix, but a little torture ought to jog his memory! TORTURE or NOT TORTURE? This isn't some ordinary pizza guy. He's the pizza guy of terror. And there are the estimated one point five squillion innocent lives! Blah blah human rights blah.

Detainee #0029: ME. Pizza Man Joe has told Giblets nothing! - or has he? Maybe he told Giblets exactly where to find the ticking bomb but Giblets is holding it back because Giblets has gone over to the other side! TORTURE or NOT TORTURE? Oh, sure, Giblets might look innocent, but we can't take any chances with jabillions of lives in the balance! Besides, where'd Giblets get all this experience torturing people? That's for terrorists! This might take a while - I got a feelin' I'm gonna be a tough nut to crack.

Source: http://fafblog.blogspot.com/2005/03/would-you-could-you-in-box-theres-bomb.html

@Cliff

I just find it ironic that when the Swamplanders finally get to a post that matters instead of all-horse-race all-the-time, the troll's output suddenly quadruples...

Good thing you didn't jump on the DOJ Attorney firing thingy Jay, you would have stained the honor of these very honorable people and made yourself look very bad in the process.

the ticking time bomb scenario does not hold water. it presumes that torure is an effective way to get accurate information. Why would torture be effective in any way against those that are committed to murder and are prepared to die to commit those murders? This torture also presumes that WE would KNOW that this individual has such information. Has this administration provided a single substantial and verified piece of intelligence gathered in this manner? We, the United States, is complicit in the deaths of dozens if not hundreds of prisoners of war. Completely innocent people that were turned over for bounties or had the misfortune to be on the street when a prisoner round-up was requested. People the Military would come to know to be completely innocent of any wrong doing. yet, they would be interrogated to death. yet all we say is 'oops'. We have completely vacated the moral high ground.

Drwho1300 - I think HH was being sarcastic. He is very vocally against torture.

@Paul Dirks: That's a good point. I hadn't really made the correlation before.

Official sarcasm confirmation post:

The Fafblog site (http://fafblog.blogspot.com/) is a satirical web site that makes fun of insane people who believe in torture and warmongering. The opinions of the authors at that site are similar to my own. Sarcasm and satire can usually be detected by the presence of ludicrous exaggerations, crazy situations, improbable occurrences, and a general air of the ridiculous. Admittedly these characteristics are also found in the actions of the Bush administration, but talented authors can sometimes still write satire that is slightly more ridiculous than the actual behavior of the Bush White House.

Oh I got the sacrcasm of HH's post. The problem is that this Administrations still uses the ticking bomb scenario as justification.

Drwho1300 - OK, my bad.

its a sad testament that the same country that was at the forefront of prosecuting war criminals at nuremberg is now leading the civilized world in the opposite direction.

among the principles that resulted from the nuremberg trials -- which also directly influenced the united nations' charter and most international law -- these stand out:

Principle II The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law.

Principle III
The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.

Principle IV
The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.

"tortured" leagl reasoning, indeed.

Crap like this that means the terrorists freaking win.

The liberal penchant for flipping wars on and off like so many Florida condos speaks volumes to their real commitment to world peace and justice (almost ZERO) when the hard decisions and hard sacrifices are asked and made.

Mistakes? You bet. Every war in ill world history.

We screwed up by losing the Shah in Iran (never mind his being an ardent anti-communist that the libs fail to recite to this day).

We screwed up by not removing Saddam as part & parcel of Gulf 1, and here's plenty of blame to go around on that -- on both sides of the not so thinning aisle.

We screwed up by not inserting 250,000 troops for looter control, given the stupid decision to dis-band the Iraqi "army" -- setting us back again, and not unlike the MisState Dept weenies entrenched in DC second guessing every Captain and CSM out of Fort Campbell on dissemination of goods and services to the locals.

We're getting better, as Winston Churchill once chimed, after doing much wrong (or at least the hard way).

That being said (which IS cheap), our getting out of Iraq OR Afghanistan too soon IS a LOSER.

If you don't want the kids of today re-fighting this deal in 10 years at higher costs, and if you really cherish freedom and all it provides (warts and all), shouldn't it be about Time that the libs stopped ratting out the troops, dissing the leaders, hair splitting the map, and otherwise aiding & abetting the enemy?

That assumes a lot about liberal IQ of course, and even more about their alleged patriotism.

What we learned from 1992: When you confront a liberal, start by questing both their judgment and their patriotism -- and don't let the SOB go until the July 4th parade IS long over.

LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET OUT OF THE WAY.

i miss the time when right wing nut jobs just didn't trust the government and wanted to limit it.

can we go back to those republicans you know the non-fascists?

Amen, rnewton.

QH, Do you really trust government with the divine authority to torture people?

I thought R's hated any increase in government power.

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مقاطع بلوتوث - -
يوتيوب - -
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فديو يوتيوب - -
فيديو يوتيوب - -
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مدينة الحب الفرنسيه - -فندق الحب - -
صور - -24 - -34-p-3 - -
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50 - -59 - -60 - -51 - -61 - -62 - -52 - -
11 - -12 - -63 - -64 - -
المنتدى العام - - مواضيع ساخنة ومثيرة - - ترجمة - -
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عربية - - -ازياء - - - صور
انمي - - -
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67
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