McCain Camp Calls Obama "Dishonest" UPDATED THRICE!

"What if it takes 100 years?" asked Fox News producer Mosheh Oinounou.

"It won't," Salter shot back."

I'll file this right next to McCain's comments in '03 of us being greeted as liberators and the war being short and easy. Mission accomplished!

Yeah, what Cookie Puss said.

That's nice, they used the word "dishonest". Wow!

Did they bother to present an argument as to why that might be the case, or they just figured throwing it out there would be good enough for government work?

Frankly, the more you look into this, the worse it looks for McCain. His caveat was, "as long as American troops aren't being killed"; but he also said that the insurgency is going to continue for many years. Well, that clears that up.

McCain only knows about a fantasyworld version of Iraq, where Sadr's influence has been on the wane for a long time, and where Maliki won a huge victory for Freedom Fighters over Terrorists in the past few days.

So really, it's not a surprise that McCain's campaign would just call Obama names. They sure as hell don't want to talk about substance.

I support Obama, but his out-of-context references to the remark in question are, if not dishonest, at least deliberately misleading. If he's going to complain about his "bomb Pakistan" remarks being taken out of context, then he shouldn't indulge in such attacks himself. I expect better of him.

Along the lines of the U.S. military bases in post-war Korea and Germany.

Maybe we should think of Berlin as the model.

At least there, we knew what the troops were suppose to accomplish....

Senator Skippy O'Bonger only voted to FUND the war.

He never actually really for the most part when showing up to cast a vote other than Present meant to fight the war.

He's honest like that.

He's Senator Skippy O'Bonger.

I call him Skippy, because he tends to spend more Time on the trail than on the Congressional floor, as a junior coffee achiever career.

Oh well.

Rev Wright happens.

MS:
Any thoughts about the questions we came up with?

Robert Sullivan: I would like better of Obama, but I can't say I expect better. I support him, but he is a politician, after all.

Is Sully also QH?

Mr. Scherer,

Have you asked McCain any of the tough questions we submitted to you?

The obvious unanswered question posed by this article is "How long is McCain willing to keep fighting in Iraq?" Why have you not asked this questions.

My own favorite unanswered McCain question is "How long should America have continued fighting in Vietnam," a closely related question.

Cliff: "I support him, but he is a politician, after all."

True. He's still the best of the lot.

What kind of mileage do they expect from referring to "Chicago style" politics.

Chicago style politics is characterized by rewarding constituents with government work. It's rather up McCain's alley.

Of course it also helps when you're opponents routinely get indicted in DMV scams or caught up in sex-scandals involving trophy-wives....

Oh wait.

The right response to that is to say that Allawi thinks we're talking about the Philippines, not Germany or Japan. Isn't that a much closer parallel--an armed, hostile populace, conquered but not vanquished or subdued.

Oh, and also not the aggressor, but the victim.

And WTF is up with the mouthpieces? Where was McCain?

I support Obama, but his out-of-context references to the remark in question are, if not dishonest, at least deliberately misleading.

Given how disingenuous McCain's entire stance on the war has been from the beginning, I really don't find the out-of-context references misleading.

I mean, if McCain can't offer any definition of "victory" that makes sense, and he can't identify any path out of the current violence that doesn't rely on magical fairy-dust, but he wants to leave U.S. forces there forever, regardless, then isn't the use of the quote a nice, pithy summation of McCain's de facto position?

"What if it takes 100 years?" asked Fox News producer Mosheh Oinounou.

"It won't," Salter shot back.

BREAKING: McCain's Senior Advisor Questions McCain's Judgment on Iraq

I'll start taking Grandpa McWrong seriously as soon as he specifies how many lives and how many billions are too many to waste in Iraq.

… and as soon as he proves he can tell Sunni from Shi'a, or Iraq from Iran.

fedupwithswampland: "I mean, if McCain can't offer any definition of "victory" that makes sense, and he can't identify any path out of the current violence that doesn't rely on magical fairy-dust, but he wants to leave U.S. forces there forever, regardless, then isn't the use of the quote a nice, pithy summation of McCain's de facto position?"

Questioning McCain's assessment of the situation is one thing. Lying about his statements is another. I'd just like to elevate the level of discourse.

I have to ask: if you're fed up with Swampland, why do you keep posting? Please don't misunderstand - I enjoy your posts, and encourage you to continue. I'm just curious.

Is he being dishonest like telling people that the surge is a success?

Is he being dishonest like telling people that Baghdad market was safe to walk around in?

Is he being dishonest like telling people that you had been calling for Rumsfeld's resignation since '03?

Is he being dishonest like calling Jerry Falwell an agent of intolerance and rejecting them then showing up to speak at his school when he needed to start gearing up for his presidential campaign?

Just curious...

Yeah very dishonest.
MS-Did you get him to speak on how "honest" it is to accuse the Democratic candidates of "waving the white flag of surrender"?

The current lobbyists on McSame's staff seem rather upset today. Is it because he's hired yet another lobbyist to work on his campaign?

McCain should read Joe Klein's last post on the subject. All of those adjectives Klein applied to Kagan are equally valid as applied to McCain. Let them bluster. Obama will not back down. McCain's problem is that he cannot tell us how long it will take to get from the mess in Iraq now to that blissful Germany/Japan/S. Korea state of being. Until he tells us just how long, how many lives, and how many trillions of dollars we will be pouring into the Iraq he is the one being dishonest. Period.

"The lofty rhetoric, it's nonsense talk. His whole brand is, 'I'm not about that. I'm about something better.' It's absolutely dishonest."

It's obvious that the people speaking such nonsense are the ones who are dishonest. This is completely consistent with the Republican strategy of laying down a layer of vitriol that will impress a naive audience. Too bad that most Republicans are so naive.

The Surge IS working.

Anything less IS just the same old democrat party pack of liberal lies, lies, lies.

Meh. Obama and Clinton are twisting those words a bit, but McCain's not being the straight-talker, either. For those that want the context of McCain's remarks, here's the video.

McCain's comparison of Iraq to Japan is apples to oranges; a gross oversimplification of the issue and a demonstration of his own ignorance or dishonesty; Japan isn't even close to being a 'volatile area of the world', and I can't find any reports of active warfare between or within the Koreas.

"What if it takes 100 years?" asked Fox News producer Mosheh Oinounou..."It won't," Salter shot back.

According to the clip, McCain disagrees with Salter; a hundred-year occupation would be fine with him, as long as there's no shooting or bombs going off...Problem is that we're a few years removed from the fall of Saddam Hussein's government, and the violence hasn't stopped and there's no central government to speak of, unlike Germany or Japan.

So, Mike, here's the next question for McCain: He's said that maintaining a 100-year presence in Iraq is 'fine' as long as it's in an environment that is non-hostile to Americans, similar to the US presence in Japan. Does he support the maintenance of a 100-year presence in Iraq, which currently is hostile to a US presence?

Follow-up: If, while the US has a presence in Iraq, US service members or civilians are attacked? Do we end our presence or respond militarily?

Follow-up to that: If the military response doesn't end the attacks, what then?

MS - Are you still responding to comments? Did we hurt your feelings by suggesting that you are not doing your job?

superterrificdelegate: No one has ever been able to tell us, during a war, "just how long, how many lives, and how many trillions of dollars we will be pouring in". Were all past wartime leaders dishonest?

"The Surge IS working.

Anything less IS just the same old democrat party pack of liberal lies, lies, lies."

You heard about all the chaos in Basra, right? How does that reflect on the surge? How about the fact that troop levels will be higher after the surge than before? Wasn't that the point of the surge, to calm things down so we can give our troops a break? How about the fact Maliki and Ahmedinejad, leader of the Iran you want to bomb so much, are BFFs? Why are we supporting the same dude that Ahmedinejad supports, when he can't even keep the peace in Iraq?

grape_crush:

The Philippines. That's the relevant comparison. Conquest, attempted subjugation, failed occupation.

Allawi pointed this out to Dexter Filkins some time ago.

Feelings are not hurt. I still have not had a chance to respond to list of questions, but hope to get some posts up over the next few days to respond to at least some of them.

How can the McCain camp stand day after day of such scrutiny?

Here's tomorrow's business model for Time. They cut out the middle man and give away all posting privileges here at Swampland and all the "real estate" in their dead tree editions to the RNC and other issuers of corporate friendly press releases.

In case you "journalists" haven't figured it out yet, being toadies won't save you for much longer. Just look yonder at the CBS News gravy train. So warm up those singing pipes and learn these words:

They used to tell me I was building a dream, with peace and glory ahead,
Why should I be standing in line, just waiting for bread?...

Once in khaki suits, gee we looked swell,
Full of that Yankee Doodly Dum,
Half a million boots went slogging through Hell,
And I was the kid with the drum!

Say, don't you remember, they called me Al; it was Al all the time.
Say, don't you remember, I'm your pal? Buddy, can you spare a dime?

@MS:
All right, I appreciate the feedback.

I still have not had a chance to respond to list of questions

What is stopping you from asking McCain how long he is willing to keep US troops in combat in Iraq?

What is stopping you from asking McCain if he would ever make a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Iran?

Something does not add up, Mr. Scherer. You say McCain lets you question him for hours. Why have you not asked these and other obvious questions and reported the answers?

Why?

Did McSame's lobbyists make their comments before or after his most recent flip flopping on the issues?

"The Surge IS working.

Anything less IS just the same old democrat party pack of liberal lies, lies, lies."

The purpose of the surge was to tamp down violence to create a more relaxed political climate for Iraqi lawmakers to get busy governing. Violence WAS down until last week, the Iraqi government still hasn't forged cross faction coalition required to pass meaningful laws, and they're no closer to being able to handle their own security issues than they were immediately prior to the surge.

If you measure it against Bush's latest definition of success, yes, it's working. If you measure success against the criteria Bush laid out a year ago, it's not even close.

If you measure success against the real purpose of the surge (let Bush play kick the can down the road for another year so the next president is stuck with the mess) then it's been wildly successful.

HH, your low opinion of me has no floor. I have been with McCain since this morning. He has yet to taken questions from the press, with one or two exceptions. That said, I do not want you to get your hopes up. I fear I may not be able to ever make you happy. Though please do tell me if it happens.

RS - the handle is because the first, like, 8 times I tried to register with Swampland, it kept eating my registration. But there's no "webmaster" email posted anywhere on Swampland, or on Time's site, for that matter, so I could never get it fixed. FWIW, I post as "Brautigan" elsewhere.

Afraid I have to disagree that the use of McCain's words in this context qualify as "dishonest", simply because they do not substantially misrepresent his position on Iraq, but I guess we'll have to wait for the face-to-face debates.

Michael,

You write:

At the time, McCain was not speaking about continuing the war in Iraq, but rather about a continuing non-combat presence, along the lines of the U.S. military bases in post-war Korea and Germany.

At best, that statement is highly debatable; at worst, you are simply transcribing pure, unadulterated McCain campaign talking points.

When I saw McCain's quote in real time and in real context, I certainly thought that the questioner was asking about continuing the war. Then he added the thing about a post-combat presence. But his initial response was about the war.

That still makes it debatable who was right in this case. It's your role as a journalist to put both sides out there and let the reader decide. Unfortunately, like most people in the media, you are at least in this case, giving McCain too much of the benefit of the doubt. In the future I would appreciate it if you would present McCain campaign talking points as what they are, and not lend them your credibility as journalist. Thanks,

-- Joel

Can you ask McCain why he wants to keep troops in Iraq for 100 years along the Japanese or German model? Why should we have troops there at all?

The examples of Korea, Japan and Germany are inapt because we are not in a "post-war period" in Iraq. Rather, we are in a "war" period. The recent Surge in violence shows that. Senator McCain's 100 year comment is horrific to contemplate - we've lost roughly 800 U.S. troops per year, with an annual U.S. casualty rate of about 6,000. 100 years means 80,000 U.S. troop deaths, plus 600,000 casualties. Not to mention the gargantuan cost. If we had lost that many in Korea, Japan or Germany post-Panmunjon, the policy would have changed.

Senator Obama was right to criticize McCain for his constant warmongering.

jayackroyd: The Philippines. That's the relevant comparison.

Well, there's another...I was thinking what Afghanistan was for the Soviets.

Nah, grape_crush. That's more like Texas, except the Soviets lost. One of the most awful things about all this is that if they had really been concerned about terrorism, about al qaeda, about establishing the US as a beacon of hope, democracy and freedom is they would have taken a tenth of the money they spent on Iraq, and made Afghanistan into a place where kids fly kites and moms play radios without interference.

It would have been a crushing defeat for bin Laden.

But, no, it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough for Tommy (suck on this) Friedman. So here we are.

HH, your low opinion of me has no floor. I have been with McCain since this morning. He has yet to taken questions from the press, with one or two exceptions. That said, I do not want you to get your hopes up. I fear I may not be able to ever make you happy. Though please do tell me if it happens.

You act as though I have extraordinary and unrealistic expectations. The American public has been bitterly divided about the Iraq war for several years, with a majority gradually turning against it. Yet, this excruciatingly obvious question has not been asked:

"Senator McCain, how long do you believe the US military should continue fighting in Iraq?"

The readers on this blog are not monsters and crazies (for the most part). We are ordinary, literate American citizens who expect some minimal accountability from our politicians and public officials. Why do you think it unreasonable that we expect you to ask McCain obvious questions?

Nothing would please me more than for you to function as a surrogate for the consensus of informed reader interest on this blog. We want you to aks McCain the questions we would ask. We want you to discuss with McCain the issues that are important to us. When that happens, I will let you know.

The liberal penchant for flipping wars on and off like so many Florida condos speaks volumes to their real commitment to world peace and justice (almost ZERO) when the hard decisions and hard sacrifices are asked and made.

Mistakes? You bet. Every war in history.

We screwed up by losing the Shah in Iran (never mind his being an ardent anti-communist that the libs fail to recite to this day).

We screwed up by not removing Saddam as part & parcel of Gulf 1, and here's plenty of blame to go around on that -- on both sides of the not so thinning aisle.

We screwed up by not inserting 250,000 troops for looter control, given the stupid decision to dis-band the Iraqi "army" -- setting us back again, and not unlike the MisState Dept weenies entrenched in DC second guessing every Captain and CSM out of Fort Campbell on dissemination of goods and services to the locals.

We're getting better, as Winston Churchill once said, after doing much wrong (or at least the hard way).

That being said (which IS cheap), our getting out of Iraq OR Afghanistan too soon IS a LOSER.

If you don't want the kids of today re-fighting this deal in 10 years at higher costs, and if you really cherish freedom and all it provides (warts and all), shouldn't it be about Time that the libs stopped ratting out the troops, dissing the leaders, hair splitting the map, and otherwise aiding & abetting the enemy?

That assumes a lot about liberal IQ of course, and even more about their alleged patriotism.

What we learned from 1992: When you confront a liberal, start by questing both their judgment and their patriotism -- and don't let the SOB go until the July 4th parade IS long over.

LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET OUT OF THE WAY.

Robert,

A competent and principled leader is able to offer clear objectives and a realistic assessment of what it will take to achieve those objectives in blood, treasure, and shared sacrifice. I think that's why we revere figures such as Lincoln and FDR and revile leaders such as LBJ and Bush. Maybe I stated it too strongly and did not mean to imply that anyone can tell us down to the last dollar, last wound, or the last stalk of asparagus in the victory garden what is at stake. In any case my argument is not meant to be global, but specific to McCain and this particular debacle (in which communication to the public has always been based on the best case scenario or out right lies).

Given the history of the conflict, our leaders bear a special responsibility to be very clear about exactly what it is we are trying to achieve. McCain needs to say that he foresees another 10 years and another 2 trillion dollars. He needs to give an honest assessment about whether or not a draft will be required. He needs to tell us how he will pay for it all. If he cannot do that he has no business trying to run the country.

Hey Michael,

Can you ask McCain, "When you say repeatedly, 'The surge is working,' how are you defining 'working?'"

Staying in Iraq 100 years is about the only policy statement McCain has made yet. The rest of his campaign has been based on his 5 years in prison, for which the country is grateful, and honor. I wonder what he could possibly mean by lofty rhetoric? If anyone is all about lofty rhetoric it's Saint McCain. The next real policy idea he talks about will be his second.

"our getting out of Iraq OR Afghanistan too soon IS a LOSER."
Who's talking about leaving Afghanistan? I think most people are on the same page there.

"shouldn't it be about Time that the libs stopped ratting out the troops, dissing the leaders, hair splitting the map, and otherwise aiding & abetting the enemy?"

No one has ratted out the troops. Dissing the leaders is our perogative as Americans - if they do a terrible job, it is our right and our responsibility to tell them about it.
No one is aiding and abetting the enemey except for GEORGE W BUSH:
His policies have frittered away our military might.
His policies have strengthened Iran.
His policies have damaged our economy, the wellspring of our power.
His policies have driven away our allies.
His policies have promoted and abetted dictatorships in the Middle East.
His policies have failed to capture Osama Bin Laden.

Michael,

I hope your turn at a question comes up. In the explosive Vanity Fair article today, The Green Light, Phillippe Sands describes the effect of the Military Commissions Act, the piece of legislation that McCain almost singlehandedly pushed through the Senate, as such:

As the consequences of Hamdan sank in, the instinct for self-preservation asserted itself. The lawyers got busy. Within four months President Bush signed into law the Military Commissions Act. This created a new legal defense against lawsuits for misconduct arising from the “detention and interrogation of aliens” between September 11, 2001, and December 30, 2005. That covered the interrogation of al-Qahtani, and no doubt much else. Signing the bill on October 17, 2006, President Bush explained that it provided “legal protections that ensure our military and intelligence personnel will not have to fear lawsuits filed by terrorists simply for doing their jobs.”

In a word, the interrogators and their superiors were granted immunity from prosecution. Some of the lawyers who contributed to this legislation were immunizing themselves. The hitch, and it is a big one, is that the immunity is good only within the borders of the United States.

Would it be too mean and disruptive of you to ask McCain if he understood that he was actually legalizing torture and immunizing torturers with this legislation? Or not?

Also, can you ask him if he realized this (from the same link):

In my efforts to get to the heart of this story, and its possible consequences, I visited a judge and a prosecutor in a major European city, and guided them through all the materials pertaining to the Guantánamo case. The judge and prosecutor were particularly struck by the immunity from prosecution provided by the Military Commissions Act. “That is very stupid,” said the prosecutor, explaining that it would make it much easier for investigators outside the United States to argue that possible war crimes would never be addressed by the justice system in the home country—one of the trip wires enabling foreign courts to intervene. For some of those involved in the Guantánamo decisions, prudence may well dictate a more cautious approach to international travel. And for some the future may hold a tap on the shoulder.

Thanks in advance. You're a good man, Michael.

Oh my Gosh!! somebody said something bad about Obama...how dare they..McCain didn't get the memo from the MSM that you are not allowed to say anything negative about Obama..I am sure he will now be called a racist.lol

Let's take a look at today's *The Daily Howler:*

**********************
Special report: Ryan’s rerun!

PART 2—STILL SPEECHLESS AFTER ALL THESE YEARS: Hay-yo! Ryan Lizza, “a rising star in our business,” was riding around on John McCain’s bus up in New Hampshire a few months ago. (You know? The bus whose “name” they rush to mention?) We realized that nothing had changed in the past eight years when he crayoned a hoary old chestnut:

LIZZA (2/25/08): It is bracing to drop in on the McCain campaign after covering the overly managed productions of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. The Democratic candidates rarely speak to the traveling press. McCain not only packs his bus with reporters (whom he often greets with an affectionate “Hello, jerks!”) but talks until the room is filled with the awkward silence of journalists with no more questions.

It’s soooo much better to ride with McCain! Instead of with those stage-managed Dems! Of course, there’s at least one obvious reason why McCain can gab so freely on his bus. And we’ll guess that Lizza may know it...
***********************

Michael Scherer, why don't you give your questions to Ryan Lizza? He and his crowd has more access than to McCain than they can use. Or you could ask Lizza to give you the schedule for those straight talk interview sessions where reporters run out of questions and then you could step up during those awkward moments of silence and fire away.

McCain is unable to grasp the complexity of Obama's intellect..........
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/02/11/barack-obama-the-color-of-water/

I still have not had a chance to respond to list of questions. What is stopping you from asking McCain how long he is willing to keep US troops in combat in Iraq? What is stopping you from asking McCain if he would ever make a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Iran? Something does not add up, Mr. Scherer. You say McCain lets you question him for hours. Why have you not asked these and other obvious questions and reported the answers?
Why?

Why do the birds keep on singing??? Why do the frogs keep on croaking?? Why do the Democrats keep on lying, being dishonest, mis-representing??? WHY oh WHY oh WHY

"McCain leaves a loaded gun sitting in front of his opponents and acts shocked when they pick it up and shoot him in face."

Dishonest, who is dishonest????

Unbeleivable stuff. BO quotes the wrong-Rev Wright’s anti-American hate speech even though BO states he was unaware of what his pastor said. But that is just the beginning. Malcom X apparently was another role model for young activist BO. Further, in his own words BO states his blatant contempt for America. Quite revealing...and disgusting.

Addressing civil rights activists in Selma, Ala., a year ago, Sen. Barack Obama traced his “very existence” to the generosity of the Kennedy family, which he said paid for his Kenyan father to travel to America on a student scholarship and thus meet his Kansan mother.

Obama has a big burden. He has to go to his events and pretend he is something he is not. His voting record shows that he supports the war. He voted twice in 2006 against bringing America's troops back home. He votes for war appropriations as if giving our money to Halliburton and Blackwater is his sworn duty. His latest bit of posturing S 433 allows the Bush Administration to suspend any troop withdrawal, which if not suspended, still keeps the troops in Iraq for a long time to come. The suspension is written right into Section 4 (b). The bill tells Bush to bring the troops home some day unless he doesn't want to. The very name of the bill, "Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007" is a lie. This is par for the course for Obama.

By June 2003, when Obama was a candidate for his current job in the Illinois Democrat primary, we were impolite enough to ask him a direct question about whether he'd support single payer legislation if elected to the U.S. Senate. We asked him: "Do you favor the adoption of a single payer system of universal health care to extend the availability of quality health care to all persons in this country? Will you in the Senate introduce or sponsor legislation toward that end?" Obama's answer was:
"I favor universal health care for all Americans, and intend to introduce or sponsor legislation toward that end in the U.S. Senate, just as I have at the state level."
Already Obama's position on health care had markedly deteriorated. By the following year, Obama was newly elected to the U.S. Senate, and in an interview with BAR's Glen Ford he was asked whether he planned to sponsor the kind of single payer legislation he'd been identified with as a state senator.
Glen Ford: "Are you going to introduce single payer legislation?"
Barack Obama: "No, I am not”.
More lies more lies more lies!!!!

Schmidt's response to the response does not bode well for McCain since he does even try to address any of the substance or Burton's statement. Are you not arguing for a permanent occupation, Senator McCain? Will this not cost trillions of dollars? Fess. Up. Come. Clean.

Obama has said that he plans to promptly begin to withdraw troops from Iraq, though he plans to leave a long-term strike force in the region. McCain has said he will continue to fight in Iraq with the current strategy until the country is stabilized and can control its own borders.

"What if it takes 100 years?" asked Fox News producer Mosheh Oinounou.

"It won't," Salter shot back.

how the heck does he know that it will not last 100 years?
how long have the israelis and palestinians been engaged in their conflict?

"dishonest" is like someone who claims to be full of honesty and integrity but gets caught up in tasteless scandals from which he would seek to extricate himself with less that candid Hillary-like cop-outs.
And still claim to be full of integrity all along.
And get mad that anyone would even think otherwise.

As in the Keating 5 thing. [It was a case of an honest man doing things that are dishonest - but he is still an honest man of integrity, so we are told]

As in the sexist comments about Hillary in Texas that a man of integrity is said to have enjoyed (before he remembered he needs the female vote ..)

As in the case of hateful Pastor Hagee [but Rush Limbaugh, the cheerleader, still swears that his candidate and pastor have more integrity than the other candidates]

As in the recent scandal that had a whiff of Bill-Clinton-size 'bimbo eruption' infidelity .. [which the conservative media did not salivate over - lest they taint their honest man]

The problem is you don't need troops there 100 years no matter what. Let's say they're not taking fire, then why in the world are they still there? We already have bases in Doha, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia. We have more than enough places, where are troops are based, to establish a Middle Eastern presence. What in the world would we possibly be doing in Iraq 100 years from now?

It was a dumb statement, McCain made it, Obama called him on it. Don't see the problem. Just because you said something stupid, doesn't mean you get to call people liar when they point it out. Geesh.

fedupwithswampland:

Thanks for the thoughtful comment. Sorry about the slow reply; work occasionally rears its ugly head.

I agree with much of what you say, but disagree on the fundamental point of this thread. While one can argue that the partial quote of McCain does "not substantially misrepresent his position on Iraq", it is clearly intended to give the impression that McCain would find it acceptable for the war to go on actively for 100 years, which is not at all what he said in the quote taken as a whole. One can legitimately disagree with McCain on any number of points. One can even question his honesty. (I happen to think he's more honest than most politicians, but that's a pretty low standard.) However, to point to a specific (partial) quote and use it to imply that McCain said something that he did not say is coming perilously close to lying. Obama doesn't need to abandon the "high road" that way; he's doing just fine as it is.

As for whether the partial quote reflects McCain's actual position, you are quite correct in saying that we just don't know. McCain, like all the others, has been parsimonious with details. Even Obama has been criticised for not spelling out his plans.

Mac. Mac, Mac. Tsk, tsk. Who do you want to answer the 3 am call? A person on the edge? Ready to go to war without all the info? Someone who makes a mistake and never says sorry? Or someone who made the right call from the start? And the 3 am ad is just fear mongering. Stop it Mac (and Hillary). Americans aren’t scared easily. Question is – who you going to call? Ghostbusters because you saw something in your neighborhood? http://angryafrican.net/2008/04/01/its-3-am-who-you-gonna-call/

superterrificdelegate:

Sorry about the slow response.

You're right: McCain has not been as forthcoming as he might be regarding his estimate of how things are going to go if we stay and "finish the job". To be fair, however, neither Clinton nor Obama has had much to say about how they think things will go over there if we pull out. Why? - because neither scenario is pretty. Politicians have learned not to tell the public things that will make them unhappy.

Regarding FDR: I seem to recall reading that he neglected to mention to the American public that the planned invasion of Japan (before the atom bomb proved effective) was expected to result in approximately one million American casualties.

Robert,

Thanks for your response. I don't think Obama or any one else is claiming it will be easy to get out of Iraq. If he is president it will be up to him to keep us clearly aware of the implications of withdrawal and the costs, and I think that so long as it is clear that we are really withdrawing, the American public will accept the cost.

You are probably right about FDR, but I think in WWII the nation understood that we were in total war. There was really no pretense of limiting collateral damage to civilian populations, let alone the military. And there was a sense of shared sacrifice whether it be the draft, or rationing, or victory gardens. In contrast, McCain will not even admit that we simply cannot afford to continue operations in Iraq at this level without raising taxes.

superterrificdelegate -

Thanks. Good points.

To be fair, however, neither Clinton nor Obama has had much to say about how they think things will go over there if we pull out.

I think you are mistaken about this. Clinton has been very clear about that. Perhaps you missed this debate:
//

CLINTON: Well, because, Doyle, I've been very clear in saying that I will begin to withdraw troops in 60 days. I believe that it will take me one to two brigades a month, depending on how many troops we have there, and that nearly all of them should be out within a year. It is imperative, though, that we actually plan and execute this right.
And you may remember last spring, I got into quite a back-and- forth with the Pentagon, because I was concerned they were not planning for withdrawal, because that was contrary to their strategy, or their stated position.
And I began to press them to let us know, and they were very resistant, and gave only cursory information to us. So I've said that I will ask the Joint Chiefs and the secretary of defense and my security advisers the very first day I'm president, to begin to draw up such a plan so that we can withdraw. But I just want to be very clear with people, that it's not only bringing our young men and women and our equipment out, which is dangerous. They have got to go down those same roads where they have been subjected to bombing and so much loss of life and injury. We have to think about what we're going to do with the more than 100,000 Americans civilians who are there, working for the embassy, working for businesses, working for charities.
And I also believe we've got to figure out what to do with the Iraqis who sided with us. You know, a lot of the drivers and translators saved so many of your young men and women's lives, and I don't think we can walk out on them without having some plan as to how to take care of those who are targeted.
At the same time, we have got to tell the Iraqi government there is no -- there is no more time. They are out of time. They have got to make the tough decisions they have avoided making. They have got to take responsibility for their own country.
(APPLAUSE)
And, you know, I think both Barack and I have tried in these debates -- and sometimes been pushed by some of our opponents -- to be as responsible as we can be, because we know that this president, based on what he said in the State of the Union, intends to leave at least 130,000, if not more, troops in Iraq as he exits. It's the most irresponsible abdication of what should be a presidential commitment to end what he started.
So, we will inherit it. And therefore, I will do everything I can to get as many of our troops out as quickly as possible, taking into account all of these contingencies that we're going to have to contend with once we are in charge and once we can get into the Pentagon to figure out what's really there and what's going on.
BLITZER: But you can't make a commitment, though, that 16 months after your inauguration will be enough time?
CLINTON: I certainly hope it will be. And I've said I hope to have nearly all of them out within a year.
//
http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/02/transcript_of_d.html

James -

I see a lot of "we have to think about" and "we've got to figure out" - with which one can't argue - but I don't see much about what she thinks Iraq is going to be like after we leave. Does she expect a sectarian bloodbath? Does she think Iran will become involved? Does she think that everyone's going to kiss and make up? If we're going to criticize McCain for not being specific about how he thinks the war is going to go if we stay, then we should apply the same standard across the board. Or do you think we should not be concerned about what happens after we leave?

do you think we should not be concerned about what happens after we leave?

How concerned are we about Somalia?

How concerned are we about Haiti?

How concerned are we about Chile?

How concerned are we about El Salvador?

How concerned are we about Sweden?

We do not own the world. We do not run the world. We had no right to invade Iraq. It is not our business to be "concerned" about Iraq.

Obama's comments aren't dishonest, they're just asking the public to make a leap in logic - he's assuming, I think accurately, that there will not be peace in Iraq until we leave. So by that logic, a 100 year presence IS a 100 year war.

M4V Converter free download center- ALL M4V conversion tools which help you feel free to convert M4V to MP3, AVI, WMV, MPEG, FLV, 3GP, WMA. And useful Guide on How to Deal with M4V files.
m4v converter
convert m4v
Ultra Quicktime M4V converter currently is the best M4V converter which can convert Quicktime movie M4V to AVI, MPEG, MP4, MPG, WMV, ASF and Vob. As we know Quicktime movie usually has the video formats of M4V, MOV, QT, MP4, and M4V, With this M4V Converter, you can feel free to Convert them all with fast speed and high output quality.
m4v to avi
m4v to wmv
With the fast and powerful QuickTime video decoder inside, Ultra QuickTime M4V Converter supports almost all MOV, QT, MP4, M4V files, even QuickTime Player has not been installed. Integrated High-speed MPEG-2 encoder which let you convert M4V to DVD-Video files(VIDEO_TS, AUDIO_TS) and VCD/SVCD , so you can burn VCD/SVCD/DVD disc easily from QuickTime files by using third-party buring tools. It is a software program for converting video formats at fast speeds and high quality. Very user-friendly interface and Quality Profiles.
m4v to mpeg
m4v to mp4

Easy Way to Cut Large Video Files into Small Clips with Video Cuttervideo cutterFLV Video Cutter3GP Video Cutter Ultra Video Cutter is a powerful video cutting tool. The main function of Ultra Video Cutter is to cut large video files into new video files, and also to join or merge multiple video clips into a large one. AVI Video CutterMP4 Video CutterDVD Video CutterDAT Video CutterVideo Editor
The program supports so many video formats including AVI, Divx, XviD, MPEG, WMV, ASF, RM, MOV, 3GP, MP4 formatsVideo MergerVideo JoinerVideo Splitter

May you have no idea about what I give you ,but it will help you a lot indeed.What you just do is to look througnt them!FLV to MP3AVI to FLV MacWMV to FLV MacMPEG/MP4/MPG to FLV MacASF to FLVDivx to FLvFLV to Ipod FLV to PSP FLV to Zune FLV to 3GP

The information in lower important his

صرقعه   شات   منتدي قلوب   دليل مواقع   العاب   site map   شات كتابي   عالم الرومانسية   قلوب السعودية

    صرقعة  قلوب  دردشة   دردشه

صفحة جديدة 1

دمعة غلا  منتديات دمعة غلا  منتدى دمعة غلا  قصر الضيافه  الاسلام والحياه  الخيمه الرمضانيه  العام  العامه  تواصل الاعضاء كرسي الاعتراف قسم الأخبار

الحوار المفتوح والجاد  عالم الجريمه والعنف  مشاهير الفن والفنانين  همس القوافي عذب الألحان والخواطر القصص الواقعيه والروايات  الصحه والطب

نواعم دمعة غلا  الموضه والميك أب   الديكور والبيت المثالي  المطبخ والمأكولات  فرفشه ووناسه  الألعاب والمسابقات  مسلسلات الإنمي 

  ألبوم الصور  السفر والسياحه  الرياضه والرياضيين  السرعه والسيارات  أحلى تواجد لآدم  البلوتوث والفيديو  الجوال والإتصالات  الكمبيوتر والبرامج

 ماسنجر   ماسنجريات   ورشة التصاميم والجرافيكس  الاقتراحات والشكاوي

http://www.d-gla.com/vb/cv_rss_feeds.php
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/info.php?
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/external.php?type=RSS2
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/sitemap.php
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/external.php?type=rss2
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/external.php?type=xml
http://www.d-gla.com/vb/archive/index.php

بطاقات رمضانية

بطاقات رمضانيه

ادعية رمضانية

رسائل رمضانية

بطاقة رمضانية

رسائل اس ام اس رمضانية

مركز تحميل

بطاقة رمضانية

بلوتوث مقاطع جوال


قسم الصحه



قسم الرجه


افلام عربيه




المسابقات




ثيمات الجيل الثالث



قصص حزينه قصص رومانسيه


الالعاب


افلام اجنبيه



القسم الاسلامي




نغمات Mp3



شعر-شعراء-خواطر-كلمات اغاني


اناقه رجل



منتدى الفضائح



القسم العام




العاب جوال




تصاميم


عالم السيارات وصور السيارات


صور مقلعين


الحوار والنقاش الجاد




برامج جوال


برامج كميوتر



القسم الرياضي


صور رومانسيه



المقلط والترحيب





قسم البوم صور المقلعين



وبيكات ملونه توبيكات ماسنجر


ازياء-موضه-فساتين-مكياج


صور بنات


منتدى الجرائم والحوداث






قسم الشعر والمهايط



رسائل رومنسيه وسائط  حب


اطباق-طبخ-مأكولات


صور انمى



اخبار الفن

 
منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان


منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان


منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان  منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان

منتديات ارجوان  
أرجوان  
شات ارجوان
 شبكة
ارجوان
دليل ارجوان
 مركز
تحميل ارجوان  
دردشة ارجوان 

منتديات منتديات ارجوان  
أرجوان  
شات ارجوان
 شبكة
ارجوان
دليل ارجوان
 مركز
تحميل ارجوان  
دردشة ارجوان 

منتديات منتديات ارجوان  
أرجوان  
شات ارجوان
 شبكة
ارجوان
دليل ارجوان
 مركز
تحميل ارجوان  
دردشة ارجوان 

منتديات

توبيكات ملونة
بالصور |

رموز ماسنجر
|
اناشيد مشاري العفاسي
|
مسلسل نور
|
احداث مسلسل نور التركي
|
صور رومانسية
|
مسجات جديدة
|
مهند ونور
|
سمايلات
|
برامج نوكيا n73
|
رسائل وسائط
|
حلقات مسلسل نور التركي
|
كلمات للماسنجر
|
ازياء
|
فساتين اطفال
|
مسجات فراق
|
قناة طيور الجنة
|
توبيكات ملونة
|
فساتين سهرات
|
توبيكات
|
صور بنات
|
مسجات جوال
|
توبيكات حب |

توبيكات حزينه
|
قصص اطفال
|
صور رومنسيه
|
فيديو طيور الجنه
|
براويز
|
برامج كمبيوتر
|
صور قلوب
|
شعر
|
العاب بنات
|
العاب نوكيا
|
اناشيد مشاري العفاسي |

برامج نوكيا
|
صور تامر حسني
|
انمي
|
مسجات جديدة
|
خلفيات رومنسيه
|
العاب
|
منتديات
|
مسجات صباحيه
|
صور ميسي
|
اناشيد اطفال
|
صور رمزية
|
نك نيمات |

صور حب
|
اطارات
|
توبيكات للمسن
|
مسجات حب
|
رنتك باسم حضرتك
|
مسجات مسائية
|
صور انمي بنات
|
صور للمسن
|
نكت مضحكة
|
العاب نوكيا

n95  |

فضيحة نانسي عجرم
|
صور لميس
|
محول الصوتيات
|
فتح المواقع المحجوبة
|
صور كونان
|
تعليم الهكر
|
صور سكس
|
ثيمات

n95
|

ثيمات نوكيا

n73 |

لعبه زوما
|

fifa2008
|

فيفا2008
|

منتديات
اسلامية
|
ادعية
|
اناشيد
|
صوتيات اسلامية
|
منتديات عامة
|
فضائح وجرائم
|
نقاشات عامة
|
سياحة وسفر
|
صور
|
تعليم اللغات
|
تحميل كتب
|
اقتصاد
|


شعر و قصائد 
|


خواطر رومانسية |

قصص
|
قصص اطفال
|
ثقافة جنسية
|
ريجيم
|
مكياج
|
منتدي خاص بالعرائس
|
حلويات
|
ديكور
|
الاسرة والطفل
|
سيارات
|
ادم
|
رياضة
|
اخبار الفنانيين
|
صور فنانات
|
تحميل افلام
|
افلام اجنبية
|
نكت
|
مسابقات
|
انمي
|
برامج كمبيوتر
|
تحميل العاب
|
توبيكات للماسنجر
|
برامج للماسنجر
|
صور للماسنجر
|
دروس فوتوشوب
|
برامج جوال
|
برامج نوكيا
|
نغمات
mp3
|
مسجات
|
ثيمات نوكيا
|
العاب نوكيا
|
مقاطع فيديو للجوال
|
مقاطع بلوتوث
 الثقافة الجنسية
الثقافة الجنسية الثقافة الجنسيه

 
منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان


منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان


منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان  منتديات الارجوان
 الارجوان
 منتديات
الارجوان 
الأرجوان
منتديات الارجوان 
ارجوان 
منتديات الارجوان 
الأرجوان

منتديات ارجوان  
أرجوان  
شات ارجوان
 شبكة
ارجوان
دليل ارجوان
 مركز
تحميل ارجوان  
دردشة ارجوان 

منتديات منتديات ارجوان  
أرجوان  
شات ارجوان
 شبكة
ارجوان
دليل ارجوان
 مركز
تحميل ارجوان  
دردشة ارجوان 

منتديات منتديات ارجوان  
أرجوان  
شات ارجوان
 شبكة
ارجوان
دليل ارجوان
 مركز
تحميل ارجوان  
دردشة ارجوان 

منتديات

أطارات فوتوشوب ذهبية


أطارات و براويز ورود


ابتسامات للماسنجر

ادخل ولن تندم

اطارات فوتوشوب رومانسيه


اطارات فوتوشوب متنوعة و منوعة


اطارات فوتوشوب ورود


اكشن

العاب الجيل الثالث

العاب جوال

العاب موبايل

العاب نوكيا

العاب نوكيا جديدة

العاب n73

العاب nokia

العاب nokia symbian


اناشيد قناة طيور الجنة للاطفال


انمي

براويز فوتوشوب

برنامج

برنامج الجاب

تحميل حلقات سنوات الضياع


تحويل الصوتيات

تعريف كارت الشاشه

تنزيل العاب موبايل

توبيكات

ثوب زفافها