What the National Journal “Liberal” Ranking Really Means

Honestly Michael, I do not know why journalists put any credence into anything printed in the National Journal. It should be ignored.

The same goes for the WSJ op/ed page, anything written by William Kristol, Karl Rove, David Brooks, etc. They are all hideous, horrible people and publications.

Are you saying that Obama and Clinton disagreed on only 2 votes in 2007? What about labeling the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps a terrorist organization?

Of course it helps if you're out campaigning all the time, and tend to come back to DC when an important party line vote comes up. That tends to skew the number of times you vote on liberal issues, compared to the number of times you vote.

And then, how do you define "liberal"? Say you vote against torture. Does that make you liberal, or simply sane.

Certain people seem to have a consistently funny relationship to statistics...

Malcolm - no he is saying those are the two votes that make Obama 'more liberal' than Clinton... TO republicans....but this is as useful as taking your tech reviews from the unabomber.

Off Topic - can we get a thicker/bolder X on rudy's head and/or a gian L stuck to his forehead? I really am glad as a NYer that he lost so miserably and don't want to see his face anymore.. Also - Mitt's picture, I just noticed (shows how often i look at him) looks like he just came off the set of the filming a remake of the shining. We know he cant muster that amount of emotion...Lastly, any chance of replacing Fred's picture with a black shadow form of an unknown person with a ? mark in it (and the X on it...)

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said there are "lies, then damn lies, then statistics?"

Interesting how the Democratic Party, who since Clinton has suffered from an obsession with DLC "centrism" and triangulation, has had their leading, conservative nominees given the top slots in this survey.

The NJ rankings are kind of like Time's Person of the Year. By giving the liberal label to leading Dem Presidential hopefuls, they're guaranteed a lot of media play.

Would National Journal get this kind of publicity if these rankings actually reflected voting records?

What utility would they have then?

Corporate political propaganda-journalism is a oozing blister on the crotch of America.

That's what does the National Journal “Liberal” ranking really means...

Posted by Michael Scherer February 1, 2008 11:43:

But “most liberal”? That sounds a bit like being the drunkest guy at a Superbowl party—not something to be proud of in a general election.

Oh God, where to begin?

I'll come back to this one...does somebody else have the energy?

Zota has it.

You ever think the "#1" rating might be bestowed on the likely Democratic candidate, regardless of any actual historical legislative votes? Hmmmmmmmm. . . .

"ut “most liberal”? That sounds a bit like being the drunkest guy at a Superbowl party—not something to be proud of in a general election."

Unless you have some understanding of what a Liberal actually is. For example, the US constitution is a Liberal document. The founding fathers were all Liberals.

Never mind.

Makes me like him more.

Isn't it time to dispel all the GOP myths? That they're fiscally responsible, moral and competent? Good Lord, don't we have enough hard evidence to prove it? By the time the conventions come around, the economy will be ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL, and the reason will be because the Republicans deliberately undid everything from the 1990s, based solely on their pet theories (trickle down economics, tax cuts produce higher revenues, rich people flush with money will create jobs, etc.)

"That sounds a bit like being the drunkest guy at a Superbowl party—not something to be proud of in a general election."

At least, it sounds that way to the staff at "Time." We know.

Journos don't really care whether that stuff is true. They don't even check. The ideologues among them will just copy and paste that kind of stuff into their writing. The lazy and the careerist journos will alter it a little by saying something like "rated as most liberal Senator by [insert ostensibly non-partisan terminology here.]"

That serves to give them something to write about, to give deniability to the charge of pumping rightwing propaganda, and to stay in good graces of the right. You can trace how quickly and easily something like this makes it's way from the RNC to mainstream publications like Washington Post, Time.com, New York Times, and the television news stations. Someone like Joe Klein, for example, could use that email to post something to make his best buddy Pete Hoekstra happy.

Democrats need to learn how to play this game. We aren't going to reform the lazy, the superficial, the careerist journalism that dominates Washington anytime soon.

Before you all pile on to my Superbowl joke, allow me this defense: I do not mean to slight "liberal" as a word, or argue that Democrats should run away from it in order to win elections. I am only trying to point out that the "liberal" label has been used to great effect by the GOP in recent elections, and the label of "most" anything--liberal, conservative, drunk--suggests a lack of moderation, which can be a liability in a general election where moderates and independents have significant power.

Michael-

Your comment "like being the drunkest guy at a Superbowl party-not something to be proud of in a general election" only makes sense if the general electorate is decidedly conservative. It is not. Polls I have seen show consistently that majorities favor the "liberal" position on every major issue except national security. And even that has been trending "liberal" in the last few months. It is only when pollsters attach the "liberal" or "conservative" label to an issue that the issue becomes about 50-50. For instance, a clear majority of Americans favor "universal health care." But when that position is described as "liberal," the majority shrinks slightly. The predominant reason for this is probably the pervasive negative labelling of "liberal" by the right-wing noise machine.

Wow.

Using research to disassemble and debunk propoganda.

Are you sure they'll still let you call yourself a journalist?

Michael Scherer:

Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry.

The shorthand of the undesirability of the "liberal" label without accompanying "VRWC promoted" disclaimers is sure to set me and a lot of others off, because it sounds like you're noting some perfectly naturally occurring phenomenon (and disappearing the role of your colleagues again), instead of a well-executed long-term branding campaign.

So I shouldn't jump down your throat before at least leaping up in praise of what you're actually accomplishing:
"Using research to disassemble and debunk propoganda.", as Paul Dirks put it so well.

Thank you, MS--thank you very much.

(and we're also very grateful for your continued response to commentary)

I agree, James,Los Angeles. And since it is ratings that matter, we have to get as nasty as they do, because the circus sells a lot of tickets. I think we have gotten a good start on this blog. We need to keep it up. Republicans suffered not at all when they started referring to the media as the "liberal media." We must bombard every site we can with facts.

For instance: I think we now have a name for a reporter who truncates a quote to make it sound like the speaker is saying the opposite of what he actually said. Henceforth, such an act should be called "pulling a Jake Tapper."

Mike: Allowing for your intent, which I don't even doubt, the way you structured your sentence slights liberalism itself. You are dissing liberalism. The snark is far from evident.

Watch yourself, huh?

smedley, yes, you are correct. But lazy and careerist journos do not listen to us except to roll their eyes. It is the Democratic Party itself that needs to get in the game. Harry Reid's office, for example, is totally inept at their messaging; they rarely even return calls from even legitimate journos. They have no clue whatsoever on how to craft a usable message. Pelosi's office is marginally better, but not by much. It is the big apparatus that makes waves in DC; little peons like us have no real effect. Not to say we shouldn't keep it up, but the only Dem group that can play any kind of game at all is Dean's DNC, who apparently has to stay out of legislative matters.

Even when Reid's office *has* a good message, his office gets rolled by McConnell's office, who not only are experts at managing the media, but has the full weight of the Republican machine behind them.

Anyone who doesn't think that the GOP will use this ranking, probably combined with MoveOn's endorsement, to tar Obama in a general election as "radical" and "out of the mainstream" is in denial. The MoveOn endorsement, in particular, will hurt far more than it can help.

Makes me very nervous about an Obama nomination.

But “most liberal”? That sounds a bit like being the drunkest guy at a Superbowl party—not something to be proud of in a general election.

Uhm... dude. That's offensive enough to make me want to get drunk and punch you in the head!

Hey, I only said "want to." I'm harmless. I'm just trying to keep it real, tell you how I feel about you, since you've told me how you feel about me.

But that's got to be the #1 most idiotic and offensive thing you've said since you showed up. Did it cross your lil mind that namecalling a whole political category might be straying a wee bit away from journalism?

This is an example of why Time is not considered a credible source to quote in debates.

Oh, and, btw, I hate to add anything relevant, but...
Obama will be the nominee precisely because people are sick of all this political name-calling! The threat of name-calling the guy who people turn to in order to escape it, is simply an offer to help elect him.

Obama did seemingly rebut the "tax and spend liberal" charge put before him in the debate very effectively...

Bemused--

Michael is responding to an RNC press release.

Yes, they will use it.

"Most conservative" is like ....

being the guy with the most latex outfits in his closet?

being the guy with the most kids on his blackberry directory?

being the guy with most bridges to nowhere?

being the richest guy in the congregation?

ah, I have it---

Like being the guy with the most beads at Mardi Gras.

Point taken, Bemused.

But some in the GOP have already admitted that they are struggling to come up with ways to attack Obama and not sound racist. If all they have is "liberal," I think Obama wins. Besides, McCain is also being called "liberal" by the wingnuts. The more they do this, the murkier the term becomes in the minds of the actual undecideds.

"Most conservative" is like ....

being the guy most likely to offer $20 to a police officer in a parking lot restroom to let him perform fellatio on the cop?

being the guy most likely to pretend that he offered to fellate a police officer in a parking lot restroom because he's afraid of black people?

being the guy most likely to pretend that he offered to fellate a police officer in a parking lot restroom because he's afraid of black people, and to be named a co-chairman last spring of Arizona Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign team in Florida?

(as reported by the Orlando Sentinel)

smedley,
I think you underestimate the power of the Republican propaganda machine, and the complicity of the Washington media. Witness: the majority of people (52%), believe the press has liberal bias, including 49% of so-called independents.I bring that to your attention because with a complicit press corps, it is the Republicans that have defined the word "liberal" for 25 or more years. If McCain is the nominee, I doubt you'll hear any Republicans calling him "liberal" in the mainstream press. And the voting public has a very, very short memory.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=348

James makes an excellent point about the perception of the average person about the media's bias.

It's ironic that so many liberal/progressive Dems like myself believe the press tends to be much easier on Republicans than Democrats for whatever reason.

The liberal = drunk line is the usual pathetic and despicable drivel one can expect from Time Magazine. It most certainly deserves to be piled on by any sentient human being. Mr. Scherer evidently reads from the same playbook as Mr. Klein-Hoekstra and is a perfect addition to the cesspool of nonsensitude that constitutes Swampland and Time generally.

Why not just write the post straight? Why the blatant gratuitous insult? Did Mr. Scherer attend a journalism school? Has he no concept of basic fairness?

In essence, we have a biased inaccurately produced NJ ranking summarized by a biased writer who hates his country so much that he willfully contributes to the infantilization of American political discourse.

"The label of "most" anything--liberal, conservative, drunk--suggests a lack of moderation. . ."

But the "most centrist" is doubleplus good.

You guys suck.

And let me just say, thank you for not having some stupid post taking Clinton's words out of context the way Jake Tapper did. Kudos!

I've been waiting all morning to jump on the first dork to fall for it, but you guys are too smart for that.

That sounds a bit like being the drunkest guy at a Superbowl party—not something to be proud of in a general election.

If that was referring to being the "most conservative", in this era when most of America recognizes the conservative movement had its chance, and has failed miserably, you would have been open to criticism for you incivility. Leave that to the blogs.

This is a good post-- thanks for chasing that info down.

But yeah, that "most drunk" is the type of thing we only see about the word "liberal," and never about the word "conservative." I know, that's what the RNC has done to great effect, but in part because the media's willing to join in.

Joe Klein is supposedly the far-left pole of liberal respectability in this country, if we look at op-ed writers at major magazines. That fact makes liberals very sad. Joe Klein hatred would shrink to near zero if people like digby and Greenwald got jobs like Kristol and Rove do. As is, they can't even get MSM Blog of the Year awards, like Powerline does.

James-

I would never underestimate the power of the Republican machine. I do, however, wonder how the ditto-heads are going to act when McCain is the GOP nominee. Are they really so stupid that they will not even remember in November what their hero said in February? Oh, I guess I answered my own question....

So Obama really isn;'t super-liberal. I'll believe it. But that won't help him when he's facing the GOP spin maching this fall.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

I truly wonder if the annals of the time-space continuum will ever be able to record a similar smarmy Scherer putdown of the word "conservative." Doesn't Time Magazine already have a multitude of "journalists" who repeat right-wing talking points ad nauseum?

The "conservatives" have brought us a never-ending disastrous unprovoked military invasion, which has already caused 30,000+ casualties, is costing $2.5 billion per week, is estimated to cost upwards of $2 trillion, has displaced millions of refugees, led to countless innocent deaths, run up gargantuan budget deficits, destroyed the mortgage markets, engaged in rampant cronyism with no congressional oversight, destroyed the bedrock writ of habeus corpus, opened up a worldwide gulag, blatantly violated the Geneva Conventions, ignored the victims of Hurricane Katrina, politicized the Justice Department, destroyed the Civil Rights Division thereof, engaged in a stunning level of corruption, attempted the wholesale destruction of Social Security, attempted to felonize abuelitas, scapegoated immigrants, attempted to enshrine bigotry into the U.S. Constitution, politically edited peer-reviewed scientific reports, ignored climate change, outed covert CIA agents for political purposes, commuted the sentences of the criminal perpetrators, attempted to destroy women's liberty, virtually ignored al Qaeda, let our infrastructure fall into the Mississippi river...

and all we get is hackneyed Limbaughian putdowns of liberals.

One reason that “the "liberal" label has been used to great effect by the GOP in recent elections” is because journalists so blithely write things like "most liberal... sounds a bit like being the drunkest guy at a Superbowl party."

Can you imagine the howls of protest if a national journalist wrote the above passage about conservatives? I am not accusing Michael of bias, I just think lit is pretty much accepted practice now that liberals are out of the mainstream, and that conservatives somehow aren't.

smedley,
I do, however, wonder how the ditto-heads are going to act when McCain is the GOP nominee.

Yep! That's going to be fun to watch. heh.

patroclus-

Your prosaic "attempted to felonize abuelitas" really hit home when my wife began to apply for a passport. She came to the part about her mother and stopped dead. I guess we won't be travelling abroad anytime soon.

You know what? no one is going to care about this ranking except for the 30% dead enders.

And they were never going to vote for a dem anyway.

it is pretty much accepted practice now that liberals are out of the mainstream, and that conservatives somehow aren't.

Of course all it would take is an actual Journalist (as opposed to Howie Kurtz)to take a peek over at a FreeRepublic comment thread to thoroughly dispell that notion.

Though a McCain candidacy in the general might draw some more interest to that little neck of the woods than anything that's currently happening.

Further self-defense, or, er, self-immolation:

1. Does anyone think there is anything wrong with being drunk at a Superbowl party? What about being the most drunk?

2. Epistemological questions: Does liberal become a negative word because Republicans put out press releases using it as a bad word? Does s liberal become a negative word because reporters like me repeat the contents of those press releases? Or does liberal become a negative word because the press release/news consuming public decide that they don't like what the word represents? The initial tree falling, the echo of the tree falling, or the squirrels hearing the tree fall? My guess is all three. (And no, I do not think voters are squirrels.)

Smedley, indeed - the Sensenbrenner bill (never mentioned on Swampland, by the way) was perhaps the most odious example of "conservatism" ever (although there are many competitors).

Another "conservative" gem is the horrendously discriminatory ban on HIV+ people from getting visas to visit the U.S. I wonder how long it will take for that issue to ever get a mention by a Swampland "journalist." Will the smarmy liberal-joke repeating Scherer mention it? Ever?

Scherer,

I would add a fourth: When the consuming public sees a majority of Democratic Senators and Congresscritters cringe and snivel and hand over that public's Constitutional rights to a 27%er widely reviled executive for fear of being called the dreaded word, is when it becomes a negative word.

FWIW, I had no problem with the drunk at the Super Bowl joke. But question #1 was a good one, too. I'd answer "no," but that's just me.

Michael-

The point is that you phrased it initially as if you were reading from the right-wing playbook. My liberal playbook says right here on page 37 that conservatives are ignorant. When are you going to write something that uses that playbook?

Michael, there is polling support for the idea that significant majorities of Americans favor progressive or "liberal" policies.

http://mediamatters.org/progmaj/report

The word liberal itself has been effectively stigmatized due to the tree and the echo of the tree.

It's about the framing, Michael. You didn't say liberals would be portrayed as drunks by idiot jerks, you said liberals were like drunks.

Get it?

And, no, there's nothing wrong with being drunk at a Superbowl. But don't try and get cute on us. You said what you said, and I think I know how it was meant. If you don't want to raise hackles, how's about being a little more thoughtful when you post?

they don't like what the word represents?

Well that depends on whether they KNOW what the word represents. But of course its taken years of effort for "liberal" to become synonymous with DFH, but to deny that it's happened or to pretend that Mainstream journalists don't play an important role in the process is to bury your head in the sand.

I suggest that if you don't understand the forces involved that you re-read Joe Klein piece on Merle Haggard.

It's a classic of the genre.

Personally, my hackles aren't raised - I'm a socialist anyway. But this is very interesting, actually engaging with a real live journalist on this subject. I feel like an anthropologist...

For the record, I think it's good to be drunk at a Superbowl party, though I will probably be on a plane this year. I compared liberals to any average football fan, which is certainly not meant as a slight. I just said that it's bad to be the drunkest guy at the superbowl party. Obama and Clinton are both liberals, though they tend not to use that word (what did Clinton say at the YouTube debate? "Proud modern American progressive"). That is fine. But I still stick by my claim that "most liberal" could be an effective weapon in the general election, and not just because reporters like me repeat it.

It's the context. If that little "drunk" quip had come out of nowhere, everyone would be ok with it.

But (cue sinister movie trailer voice) in a world where the very word "liberal" is treated as an insult, and the media has played a role in disseminating that while treating "conservative" as a synonym of "resolute," it rankles.

Like I said above, Joe Klein is just about the most liberal columnist at any major news magazine, and he's not liberal. Just ask him. There are problems with the misuse of the word, and the ideas.

Yes, it's been thus for a while. And I agree with your conclusion in #2. But that doesn't mean that you should decline to report facts, just because a false spin is widespread.

Thanks, Michael, for engaging in discussion with commenters. It is very much appreciated.

Hey, Mr. Scherer -- thanks for joing us in the penny seats!

Further self-defense, or, er, self-immolation:

Funny.

1. Does anyone think there is anything wrong with being drunk at a Superbowl party? What about being the most drunk?

I think being the drunkest guy at the Superbowl means you can "relate" to the average voter. If you're a Republican. Otherwise, it's not something you want known in the general election.

2. Epistemological questions: Does liberal become a negative word because Republicans put out press releases using it as a bad word? Does s liberal become a negative word because reporters like me repeat the contents of those press releases? Or does liberal become a negative word because the press release/news consuming public decide that they don't like what the word represents? The initial tree falling, the echo of the tree falling, or the squirrels hearing the tree fall? My guess is all three. (And no, I do not think voters are squirrels.)

A results in B which results in C. What I'd like to see is a tree fall, and no one hears it.

I still stick by my claim that "most liberal" could be an effective weapon in the general election, and not just because reporters like me repeat it.

Would that apply to the word "conservative"? Why or why not? How is it related to public support for "liberal" and "conservative" policies?

I still stick by my claim that "most liberal" could be an effective weapon in the general election, and not just because reporters like me repeat it.

Well, not just... but it's conventional wisdom, so is it even possible for reporters like you not to repeat it? Do you think about it before you repeat it, or is CW just accepted fact that you don't have to think about? What would happen if you looked at the CW and found it antiquated, and therefore decided to write something else -- would you still be able to go on the Chris Matthews show?

s this “most liberal” ranking actually mean anything?

If we think about this carefully, it would appear that the whole point of your post is that the use of the term "liberal" as an epithet is inappropriate. Yet you're arguing in comments that the Right Wing is going to be using "liberal" as an epithet and its up to us to just deal with it and not push back?

One counterintuitive spin might be that since Bush's numbers are in the sh***er, maybe being the "most liberal" is a plus, these days. How's about taking that meme for a spin, Mikey?

I'm going to rant here.

Why does the media let McCain get away with his "we're winning" crap when it comes to Iraq? His comments show he's either lying, is deluded or has no concept of the complexity of our problem.

The Iraqis are no closer to becoming a united country than they were before the surge. The fact that our wonderful military has been able to cut back on the violence after substantially beefing up its presence in Baghdad means nothing if we are forced to remain for years in Iraq policing the country. And now Afghanistan is once again in danger of falling in the hands of the Taliban.

Why does the press not challenge McCain more forcefully on this issue instead of fawning over him?

Elvis, and really all of the commenters here today, brought to mind this article in the Ny Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/us/01conservatives.html?ref=politics

It's amazing that the RNC and GOP contiously stress the value of stating and highlighting their conservative credentials. Yet the MSM does nothing to compare conservative to liberal and only serve up what the RNC says about how horrific it is that someone is a liberal.

MS, we really appreciate you coming on here and responding to us, but rather than get defensive, why don't you actually respond to our point of how the MSM repeatedly repeats the Right's connotation of liberal.

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said there are "lies, then damn lies, then statistics?"

Posted by Johnny Guitar | February 1, 2008 12:11 PM

It was Benjamin Disraeli

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

See Time? THAT'S how you do research. That wasn't too hard, now was it? Took all of about 30 seconds...

I imagine liberal became a bad word when it became equated with Leninism. As anyone who has studied politics knows liberalism and socialism are two different things. In fact, in many countries liberals are considered to be moderates, supporting a mixed economy rather than the nationalization of all industry. In America there are very few Leninists. However, the Right has it's own extremist press and the so called legitimate press gives them equal time. They are the ones who have decided to demonize the word Liberal which I guess is anyone who isn't a right wing fanatic. The Internet is helping to offset the influence of the right wing press but I imagine it will take much more time to balance things out. I don't think we can expect the so called legitimate press to do something about it.

Michael I think a good topic might be that idiot Goldberg's book arguing that fascism is a liberal and socialist ideology rather than what it really is, a right wing ideology. I haven't seen too many people in your business taking him on.

It was hardly an "epistomological" question - Mr. Scherer clearly wasn't seeking knowledge; rather, he was attempting to defend himself after making a gratuitous insulting "joke" and being called on it. This is a natural defensive reaction to our quite-justified ridicule, but it is not particularly admirable. On the other hand, it is far superior to Mr. Klein-Hoekstra's constant lies and insulting behavior, so we should be thankful for small things.

Paul Dirks has nailed it - the point of the post was, apparently, to show (with two examples) why the NJ ranking was both flawed and simplistic and why the use of "liberal" as an epithet was not particularly rational or explainable. Nonetheless, the unwarranted inclusion of the gratuitous insulting joke and the flailing wounded defensiveness of the later comments unfortunately overwhelmed that thesis. Notwithstanding his reporting, Mr. Scherer's real views come shining through - he enjoys ridiculing liberal patriotic Americans even whilst admitting the irrationality of the exercise. I'm SO impressed.

Will the warmongering, incompetent, cronyistic, stunningly corrupt, big spending, authoritarian, warrantless domestic eavesdropping, climate change ignoring, torture advocates (i.e., "conservatives") continue their practice of blasting press releases to their willing enabling sycophants in the media in order to try to ridicule liberals in order to obtain or retain political power? Duh! Of course they will - for so long as the Scherer's of the world allow them to get away with it by mindlessly repeating their gibberish-like drivel. This is precisely what I meant by the infantilization of American political discourse.

Sadly, instead of just producing good journalism like the pith of the original post, Mr. Scherer just HAD to include the insulting joke. And he won't (or hasn't as yet) apologize. And he won't (or can't) treat liberals with respect. And he won't (or can't) even attempt to make a similarly insulting balancing "joke" about conservatives.

This contratemps capsulizes the smarmy Village media in a nutshell. Meanwhile, 38 Americans lost their lives in Iraq this month, IED attacks are on the rise and the entire media seems to compete with one another about who can fluff Senator McCain the best.

Will the warmongering, incompetent, cronyistic, stunningly corrupt, [huge breath] big spending, authoritarian, warrantless domestic eavesdropping, climate change ignoring, torture advocates (i.e., "conservatives") [huge breath again] continue their practice of blasting press releases to their willing enabling sycophants in the media [last gulping breath] in order to try to ridicule liberals in order to obtain or retain political power [whew]?

Did I write this?

I love it!

"Could it all be happening again? If Obama is the nominee, you can bet on it. In point of fact, both Obama and Clinton are relatively liberal members of the Senate."

When they show up to vote.

"Will the warmongering, incompetent, cronyistic, stunningly corrupt, big spending, authoritarian, warrantless domestic eavesdropping..."

But enough about the Clixons.

Fine, I'll say it.

Drunkenness is the state of being intoxicated by consumption of alcohol to a degree that mental and physical facilities are noticeably impaired.

Being somewhat intoxicated could be fine, being drunk means you're not in control. Michael Scherer here is saying, and not saying that Republicans say, the being the most liberal is being out of control. Quite honestly, the fact that the connotation of the word "drunk" is negative in most situations with the general public is not exactly a new surprise.

"Most liberal" could be an effective weapon in the general election, for three reasons:

1. Reporters repeat it and confirm it as conventional wisdom to the public.

2. Media outlets are not interested in examining conservatism in anywhere near the same fashion, especially if someone who they have chosen to hate (any Clinton) face someone they have chosen to love (John McCain is a Mighty Gladiator!).

3. Democrats have chosen to run from it in the past; will they run from it in the future? They ought to fight the idea that being liberal is a bad thing.

"Wax Trax! recording artist" Stu:
Did you check out this link to Bob Allen's profile on the Florida House of Reps website:

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Representatives/details.aspx?MemberId=4204

Note the "recreational interest."

Let's see, Stabbing Westward, Pigface, Filter, ...who else?

Excellent post. More like this, please.

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منتديات دليل مواقع منتدى قريش منتدى صور الكون شبكة اسلاميه العاب مركز تحميل تحميل صور
اداره مواضيع المميزه تعارف تبادل نصي تبادل روابط نصيه اهدائات ترحيب تعارف خدمة الاعضاء الرئيسيه مواضيع اسلاميه مواضيع عامه نقاش حوار السياحه السفر الاخباريه جريمه اثاره الرياضه سيارات دراجات ناريه الاسره المجتمع شباب العربي ابناء ادم عالم حواء بنات حواء عالم الطفل الطفل الطب الصحه مطبخ الزواج الحياه الزوجيه ديكور اثاث منزلي اشغال يدويه الابداعات الشعريه الابداعات الادبيه همس القوافي شعر عذب الكلام خواطر قصص روايات ترفيهيه العاب مسابقات نكت ضحك فرفشه افلام انمي افلام كرتون المكتبه الصوتيه المكتبه السمعيه الابداع التصوير الفوتغرافي فوتشوب فلاش سويتش صور صور ورده تصاميم الاعضاء ابداعات الاعضاء تقنيه الالكترونيه الاتصالات كمبيوتر برامج كمبيوتر برامج ماسنجر ماسنجر هوتميل ماسنجر ياهو جوال موبايل برامج جوال ارشيف مواضيع مكرره مواضيع محذوفه

M4V Converter free download center- ALL M4V conversion tools which help you feel free to convert M4V to MP3, AVI, WMV, MPEG, FLV, 3GP, WMA. And useful Guide on How to Deal with M4V files.
m4v converter
convert m4v
Ultra Quicktime M4V converter currently is the best M4V converter which can convert Quicktime movie M4V to AVI, MPEG, MP4, MPG, WMV, ASF and Vob. As we know Quicktime movie usually has the video formats of M4V, MOV, QT, MP4, and M4V, With this M4V Converter, you can feel free to Convert them all with fast speed and high output quality.
m4v to avi
m4v to wmv
With the fast and powerful QuickTime video decoder inside, Ultra QuickTime M4V Converter supports almost all MOV, QT, MP4, M4V files, even QuickTime Player has not been installed. Integrated High-speed MPEG-2 encoder which let you convert M4V to DVD-Video files(VIDEO_TS, AUDIO_TS) and VCD/SVCD image(*.bin,*.cue), so you can burn VCD/SVCD/DVD disc easily from QuickTime files by using third-party buring tools. It is a software program for converting video formats at fast speeds and high quality. Very user-friendly interface and Quality Profiles.
m4v to mpeg
m4v to mp4

Easy Way to Cut Large Video Files into Small Clips with Video Cutter. video cutterFLV Video Cutter3GP Video Cutter
Ultra Video Cutter is a powerful video cutting tool. The main function of Ultra Video Cutter is to cut large video files into new video files, and also to join or merge multiple video clips into a large one. AVI Video CutterMP4 Video CutterDVD Video CutterDAT Video CutterThe program supports so many video formats including AVI, Divx, XviD, MPEG, WMV, ASF, RM, MOV, 3GP, MP4 formats.Video EditorVideo MergerVideo JoinerVideo Splitter

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