The Democratic Debate

Thanks, Mr. Klein. That was a good summary.

One question I hope you'll answer: wasn't Russert's whole Farrakahn thing way way way over the line? It seemed to me a new low, even for him.

Prove to us once and for all that you're not really still battling the hippies and Black Panthers in your head by calling out Buffalo Tim on this one.

It was truly disgraceful.

Wait, you claim that 15 million can afford to buy in but choose not to. How do you define those 15 million? How do you know they can afford it? Are you adjusting for regional differences in standards of living? Because making $40k a year in NYC, one might really not be able to afford it, while the same salary in a cheaper area of the country would afford more leeway. But... how do you back up your statement? Just wondering if you have any concept of how little an entry level professional job pays these days, even in major urban areas.

Mike M.,

Can people afford Social Security and Medicare?

Let's not get distracted here, people. The focus should on Russert's disgraceful performance. Joe stopped just short of calling him out on it. Let's encourage him to take the next step.

"On getting endorsed by Louis Farrakhan: Bad moment by Obama, later redeemed."

I'll take this opportunity to point out Joke, that MAINSTREAM conservative voices have said worse and I never hear you or your colleagues ask Republicans to denounce/reject their endorsements.

Also, its funny how a clearing house for rumor and innuendo, the Drudge Report, drives so much of what journalists write, while you ignore the reporting of the Polk award winning Talking Points Memo. Says a lot about your profession doesn't it?

Joe:

Your arguments about trade really don't amount to much other than the fact you see the economy through your bias as a free trader.

Trade deals and the encouragement of outsourcing has cost our immediate metropolitan area the bulk of the IT jobs at QWest, now farmed out to TATA. Alaska Airlines closed a call center near here putting 430 Americans out of work.

What do you think of the warehouse jobs lost here because Target and others hire illegals? What about the traditional first jobs my kids and others' kids have lost due illegals?

But nevermind, Joe, this is ALL good to you, because the bottom line is the only standard you apply as a measurement.

Yes, and Tim Russert is a f*ing jackass!

Joe Klein is wrong:

On getting endorsed by Louis Farrakhan: Bad moment by Obama, later redeemed.

This is what happened, per Jay Newton-Small:

they just wrapped up a section on Louis Farrakhan's endorsement of Obama which Obama "denounced" and then Hillary insisted he also "reject" it. Obama laughed -- he seems much more at ease at this debate and in comparison to HRC -- and said he didn't see a difference between "denouncing and rejecting" but he'd do both if it pleased Hillary.

Barack Obama DENOUNCED Farrakhan.
Let me walk Joe Klein through the definition of the word, as he seem not to understand it:

1. to condemn or censure openly or publicly: to denounce a politician as morally corrupt.
2. to make a formal accusation against, as to the police or in a court.
3. to give formal notice of the termination or denial of (a treaty, pact, agreement, or the like).
4. Archaic. to announce or proclaim, esp. as something evil or calamitous

I understand that Joe Klein has one set of standards for Democrats and much weaker standards for John McCain, who has hired racists Terry Nelson and Richard Quinn. I'm just surprised he's making it so obvious.

Hi Joe,

Now that the issue of Obama and Israel/Jews finally came up in a debate, I'm wondering if you know an article that effectively responds to Ed Lasky-- does it appear Obama desire a different policy towards Israel? Ralph Nader on Meet the Press, seemed to imply that if it wasn't for the "Israel Lobby," that he would.

Obama killed on the Farrakhan comment. I haven't seen someone so effectively debunk a myth since JFK and the Pope.

Jay got it right.

I spoke with James Galbraith, the University of Texas economist today, and he said the major impact of NAFTA was on illegal immigration, not manufacturing jobs.

This could be, maybe, I dunno, because the guy is from freaking Texas? Which has benefited immensely from NAFTA save for rampant illegal immigration? (which was so bad that in some cases, border towns were literally swallowed whole)

Meanwhile, ask your friend if he wants to visit the automotive industry communities of Michigan, Or ex-employees of food makers big and small in Wisconsin and Idaho. Or local film crews in Los Angeles. Or pretty much any small-business jeweler in the United States. For them NAFTA was a meat grinder seemingly made to make a few multi-nationals filthy rich.

While we're at it, ask him if it's ok for Mexicans south of the border to work at American companies for pittance (sometimes barely a $1 an hour for 18-hour work days) and no rights (American companies south of the border routinely bust any union they come up with). Or if the rampant environmental destruction on all sides of the border is kosher. Or if..oh forget it.

The problem is the 15 million, more or less, who can afford it and choose not to buy in. They are mostly young, mostly well-off...you've heard the arguments. I agree with Clinton (and the ever-crusading Paul Krugman) that they have a moral and civic responsibility to buy in.

God your generation drives me nuts. "Moral and civic responsibility"? How easy for you to crow that while the young adds Hillary's plan to the latest list of future burdens, from out-of-control school debt to paying for Bush's spending and god knows what else. Galling too, considering the richest class of Americans is still by far white boomers. Talk about failures of moral and civic responsibility.

There is a growing, despicable movement to denounce and defame Obama among right-wing Jews and this would have given them ammunition. He escaped, narrowly.

Despicable indeed, very much agreed there. Apparently Obama shouldn't ever look at the Middle East objectively. He should be promising to look the other way the next time Israel shoots missiles at hospitals and schoolyards across Arabia, like Shillary and McLoser.

I watched this debate as I have all 20 debates. I just wonder why it taken Hillary Clinton a year to say if she can take a vote back be Iraq .?
Well is it because she at do or die time . ?
Also Barack Obama is been found truthful. About NAFTA . He right when he said she been for NAFTA all along up until 2004 . I myself want a president that tells the truth . Not like GWB. She seems to me to be a lair . I also have questions about why she has not realest her taxes.?
What she has to hide .? Also another thing I don't by this she was having fun when she pocked fun of Barack Obama campaign . About the heavens so on and on. There been so many thing she now doing . Because do or die time . Like this saying she was sorry about her husband behavior with the black caucus group other day. Why now .? It was a month ago .
These are many questions American people must ask yourself.
I for one . This is more reason why I support Barack Obama . He has shown more than once he is ready to be president . I know she often to get votes uses let make history together .
Well if anyone vote for her . For only that reason maybe you all need to ask yourself is that a reason to vote for more of Bush. The hiding things . The lies . No trust . ?
This idea that you can bring our troops home safe in 60 days . No you can not . I have a son in Iraq and myself I need him home . But more than that SAFE. Oh I must say one more thing the crying she did before the NH vote . I asked myself why is it she did not cry when she send our troops to war . There is one more big reason why she did not get my vote . Is because she give me no hope for our country and she makes me feel she can not heal this country and unit us all. I remember the first time I herd Barack Obama speak . I teared up . And looked at my husband and said he the one . I call them tears of hope .
I don't ever cry when I listen to politicians. So that means alot to me . There so many other reason I support Barack Obama . But I can write a small book on all reason . BUSH , CLINTON BUSH . where dose it end .? Four more years JEB BUSH. Change is the key . Not only in new face new idea but in Washington all together . Its broken for so many many years . It is time to start a new page . OUR YOUNG has given there lives time and time again . They have much hope again. It time for them to have there say. We had ours.
For many it been since 1960s . And frankly it been way to long I myself lost hope . Barack Obama gave it back to so many. Its not a mistake 20,000 people a day show up to see him . He is ready . And able to keep us safe . It time America . To change the page .
So Americans Join us , And vote for Barack Obama.

I agree with a lot of it. He won.

I think HRC's health car is worrisome to some people though. What is "affordable"? I think that is what people want to know.

The Louis Farrakhan could have been very bad, but again I did understand what he was trying to say. Louis Farrakhan didn't give him anything to reject. But again, I think it would have been better to flat out reject. Brilliant save though. Funny how the times HRC tries to go after Obama he always acknowledges it and turns it arounds it around. He does it in a way that is so natural.

I don't think she was her best. She seemed very edgy and was attacking too much, interesting too put and did not seem at ease. Obama seemed very natural, gracious and in control.

people will say this is press being favorable over him, but when he's good he's DAMN good. I don't know how to explain it, but he makes me happy to listen to.

I have to say something about mandated health care.

There are all manner of Americans in this great nation of ours, it is what makes us what we are.

Among all of that diversity is the diversity of belief in God.

There are several faith based groups that do not participate in the allopathic medical system, one of which are Christian Scientists.

Forcing people, who it is against their faith, to participate in a system they will not use - is immoral.

I am not a Christian Scientist, but my brother is, and so is his wifes family from southern Ohio.

To me, it was sad to hear their mother died of a cancer which they did not treat except by prayer.

However, that is their belief - and who are we to criticize another in a nation where freedom of religion is a basic unalienable right.

Clintons medical proposal does not account for those who due to religious grounds oppose allopathic care - and I think that is a very important reason to support Obama, which if people - for whatever reason - simply do not wish to participate, they won't have a lein placed against their home for their religious beliefs.

I can't believe Tim Russert did not not ask the follow-up question to Obama, about also rejecting a membership to a Church that awarded Louis Farrakhan "A Lifetime Achievement Award." What truly Christian church would do that? Also this Trinity United Church of Christ has also been contributing to his campaign, so he does have direct relation to anti-Semitic sentiments. All voters have to do is really look into and research this information on the internet because the fourth estate is suppressing this information (see BBC News and Israeli news). Also Tim Russert did not also ask why this church requires their congregation to adhere to the Black Value System if it is a Christian church. I do not know of one single Anglo-Saxon church with a white value system requirement. If there was one, that church would be deemed a militant racist church, then why would Obama's church not be considered reverse racism. Another point that the moderators did not ask Obama is his relation and support for Raila Odinga who is the Orange Democratic movement leader in Kenya. This man says he is Obama's cousin. Obama has been to Kenya to support and campaign for Odinga in 2006. This is the very man, Odinga, who said if he did not win the Kenyan election, that there would be unrest for the country. That was a threat and when he loss, the killing rampage of Christian Kenyans started. This man and his party have committed acts of terrorism amongst its people, bluntly speaking ethnic genocide. To date there has been over a thousand murders. Why has Obama contacted Raila Odinga and has not outright denounced what Odinga is doing in Kenya. Another scary note, Odinga also signed an agreement with the National Muslim Leader Forum that if elected President of Kenya, he would enact Sharia laws. These anti-human rights Islamic practices denigrate women and children; please research these things in any human rights groups. Scary to think that a potential American President could not stand up to a terrorist, even if they were right in front of him. As a Democrat who strongly believes in the interest of the United States and defending our country, Obama does not get my vote.

With a name like Hillary is the Right Choice I'm sure you're impartial.

To me Obama's answer on Farrakhan was more than satisfactory. Perhaps you and your candidate would like to press it further. Judging from the reaction of the crowd, the columnists, everyone sane and anyone who actually watched the debate her first attempt at parsing words with Obama on this didn't work too well. So go ahead and give it another try.

No offense but this is exactly what's wrong with her campaign. She keeps trying the same thing that fails over and over again.

But how was this good for the Republicans and bad for the Democrats? You are really slipping, Joe!

"...There is a growing, despicable movement to denounce and defame Obama among right-wing Jews..."

Jesus H. Crist.

You think AIPAC put the words into the foulmouth of Obama's racist, paranoid, Buffalo Soldier bleating "Reverend" Wright?

= ANONYMOUS ACCOMPLISHED =

Am I the only one who caught the irony in this???

In response to the question about Putin and Medvedev on MSNBC's debate tonight, Senator Hillary Clinton pretty much denounces (but doesn't reject) her own run for President:

""I can tell you that he's a hand-picked successor, that he is someone who is obviously being installed by Putin, who Putin can control, who has very little independence," she said.

"This is a clever but transparent way for Putin to hold on to power, and it raises serious issues about how we're going to deal with Russia going forward.""

1) Hand-picked successor
2) Being installed by an outgoing leader (or former leader)
3) Transparent way to hold on to power
4) Raises serious issues about how to deal with as we go forward

Hmmmm does this sound familiar?

It would have been great for either Tim Russell or Brian Williams to have gone a little deeper on this with a follow-up - "So is this what you are saying: you are against a political system that appears dynastic in its operation?"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_ann_richards

Another bright moment in Clixon history.

They danced around every possible (and current) international crisis, with ZERO to offer in viable ideas?

Typical.

Good post, Joe. TomT and Titus Pullo are right-- the takeaway here is that Tim Russert is a terrible interviewer.

And Drudge faux-outrage scandals make it into the mainstream media after about a day and a half, as opposed to Josh Marshall's stories-- and he's actually done some reporting about important stuff, not Russert-Drudge's peripheral, childish crap.

Obama and Clinton are both good candidates.

Our political press is the worst ever.

Tim Russert and Joe Klein are currently engaged in a head to head battle for President of Idiotic, Fact-Free Pundits.

Rumor has it that Joe will choose David Broder as his running mate.

I wonder whether or not this will go into the books as Hillary's SNL strategy. Not just her weak effort to reference the sketch about the CNN debate, but also her dour, scowling "bitch is the new black" demeanor throughout the evening. I'll admit that I would have to rethink my support for Obama if Tina Fey were running, but she should probably revise her trope to "funny bitch" is the new black.

My favorite line of the night was when Obama described the vote to go to war in Iraq as driving the bus into the ditch. It also seems like an apt metaphor for the Clinton campaign at this point.

Considering your part of the establishment and have been assissting in trying to direct who is elected the Democratic nominee, once again you fail to analyise the events accurately and free from bias. If you were intelligent in your abilities the comment that Hillary made on the moderators giving obama pillows should have told you how brilliant she is. She said it at the beginning of the debate and focused ALL of the audience attention to the FACT that obama has been given a baby blanket and pacifier, and it zoned us in to the questions and attention he got, like when Brians hardball question to obama over Hillary's speech in RI was, "could you tell us how that was unfair to you?" Not how are you someone who has very little national service going to work through all the intricacies of the federal government? I spent the entire debate looking at how Tim Russert and Brian Williams were sucking up to obama and how they allowed obama to ramble on and on and on and how he wasn't asked anything serious.

YOU GO HILLARY, YOU ARE AWESOME!!

Cmike: "Can people afford Social Security..."

As a matter of fact, no. I can't afford to have money I would otherwise be able to invest towards my own retirement in the future spent on other people's retirement today. I can't afford to have every dollar put into S.S. returned to me forty years from now as seventy cents, which is exactly what is projected to happen if something
is not done. I can't afford for this to continue.

Yet the money is taken from me anyway.

How would HRC's health care proposal be different?

K

Obama said he denounced Farrakhan's antisemitism--which was to say, I don't like him but I won't kick away his (or the Nation of Islam's) support.

Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe. Listen to me.

Stop. Just stop.

You're saying Obama has to answer for Farrakhan because Obama and Farrakhan are...black.

Snap out of it and move on.

And I won't tell anyone we had this conversation.

Kirkuk votes to join Kurdistan, the Turks invade...Senators, do you really think a referendum on the status of Kirkuk is a good idea? What do you do if Turkey invades? (Oh, and by the way, what do you think about Turkey's current operations against the PKK in Iraq?)

Joe seems to know much more about Iraq and cares more deeply about it than most journalists. That's what makes his credibilty problems even that much more tragic. He actually does have something important to bring to the table but his Hippie-Hating Surge(tm) loving baggage gets in the way.

CMike, when I first started working (and after I moved to NYC) I really couldn't afford those social security and Medicare taxes. Yes, they were taken anyway. But I'd be in better financial position now if I'd gotten a break during the early, lean years.

Man, some folks coming out of the woodwork here.

How about this going FWD, at least in future Dem primary debates (I hope unnecessary until '12 by the way)--avoiding the MSM entirely? If Fox must be blacklisted then surely their whorish stepsister MSNBC should be, and if John King and Wolfie are posing ?s something's amiss in Denmark. Why not do straight PBS for all 20 or so next time. Can't the DNC mandate some of this? God help us when Mac's stool carriers, and I mean pooh, attempt to pose obective ?s

And when, if 3/4 goes as it appears it will, will our 1st Donkey vs. 'Phant debate be?

Ok Joe, not a bad summary.

But I thought Little Timmy was in parody mode -- for a second I figured maybe Boehlert or Greenwald was asked to "perform" as Russert and that's who was up there asking those inane, trivial questions, with no follow up whatsoever. How about he listen to the answers, which are not terribly complicated, instead of insisting on mind-numbingly dumb yes/no "gotchas"?

Any halfway competent trial attorney can see that Russert is just awful at cross-examination. Either that or he really is as dumb as he seems.

Do you want a litmus test for the press?

Here is one!

McCain tried to distance himself from Bill Cunningham and gets hashed from head to toe for "throwing him under a bus".
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/27/cunningham.mccain/index.html

And, of course we have Joes' peice right here.

I don't have ANY doubt ANY more. It couldn't be clearer.

If you are a Republican, you get a free pass on hate speech. As a matter of fact, you can get severly lambasted for distancing yourself from it! Hells bells, it gets reported as nothing but a political event! No judgement, no nothing!

If you are a Democrat, if you DON'T divorce yourself from hate speech, then your arse is gorse. And you have Joe and other pundits making judgements on either side, with threats of execritude abounding!

What the HELL is wrong with the press, AND, with Republicans, anyway?!?!?!

I CHALLANGE the pundits to address this honestly!

53 spewth... "If you are a Republican, you get a free pass on hate speech."

You're the first black Howard Dean, apparently.

Question Hillary:

Besides the fact that you are lower than a spirochete (microbes aren't racist they don't insult the dead, and they certainly don't stoop so low as to insult those who were near to them), you are jumping to more than a few conclusions heare.

I won't tell you which ones, either.

It isn't a question of whether you are smart enough, you aren't. I instead leave it to others to see the divide here.

And, if YOU don't like what I said, given that you are a filthy, pointless, ignorant, and fear filled pshyco caught in the '80s, I will CERTAINLY take it as a complement!

You, in the meantime, should watch those rocks from space...

Obama doesn't have to apologize for Farrakahn any more than McCain has to apologize for David Duke.

Candidates do not have to take responsibility for and then apologize for the beliefs, opinions or behavior of anyone they aren't intimately identified with.

I'm afraid the narrative of the next 9 months is going to be "is Obama prostrating himself sufficiently in front of right wing Jews?" Who gives a s**t? Why should he?

Every time Joe talks about young people and health care, I get this image of Joe standing on his porch, waving his cane and yelling for us young people to stop riding bikes and climbing rocks like a bunch of damn monkeys, and how we should all get real jobs and start wearing caftan sweaters like normal people.

I'm not saying he's being inaccurate, but I love how crotchety he sounds.

as low of a low point as it was in tim russert's moderation of last night's democratic debate, i do think it's interesting that many in the blog world are harping on russert's louis farrakhan questioning and not seeing what i saw in the moment: senator obama wanted to have it both ways.

read all of:
tuesdays

To Kempesh

My Dad railed against Social Security his entire life. He was a doctor and made lots of money and he hated paying taxes and he hated SS. Needless to say he ALWAYS voted Republican.

He spent every dime he ever made and then some.

Three years ago he had a stroke. It didn't kill him but it incapacited him enough that he couldn't work any more. Want to know what his sole income is today?

Social Security.

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منتديات دليل مواقع منتدى قريش منتدى صور الكون شبكة اسلاميه العاب مركز تحميل تحميل صور
اداره مواضيع المميزه تعارف تبادل نصي تبادل روابط نصيه اهدائات ترحيب تعارف خدمة الاعضاء الرئيسيه مواضيع اسلاميه مواضيع عامه نقاش حوار السياحه السفر الاخباريه جريمه اثاره الرياضه سيارات دراجات ناريه الاسره المجتمع شباب العربي ابناء ادم عالم حواء بنات حواء عالم الطفل الطفل الطب الصحه مطبخ الزواج الحياه الزوجيه ديكور اثاث منزلي اشغال يدويه الابداعات الشعريه الابداعات الادبيه همس القوافي شعر عذب الكلام خواطر قصص روايات ترفيهيه العاب مسابقات نكت ضحك فرفشه افلام انمي افلام كرتون المكتبه الصوتيه المكتبه السمعيه الابداع التصوير الفوتغرافي فوتشوب فلاش سويتش صور صور ورده تصاميم الاعضاء ابداعات الاعضاء تقنيه الالكترونيه الاتصالات كمبيوتر برامج كمبيوتر برامج ماسنجر ماسنجر هوتميل ماسنجر ياهو جوال موبايل برامج جوال ارشيف مواضيع مكرره مواضيع محذوفه

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