Re: End of an Era

"He was an excellent man."

Clearly Chutzpah Joe has forgotten Buckley's hysterical homophobic attack on Gore Vidal

It wasn't till 1968, on the floor of the fractious Democratic convention, that the two finally came face to face; and the colloquy was as civilized as you�d expect. Buckley to Vidal: "Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-nazi or I'll sock you in your Goddamn face and you'll stay plastered." ABC caught, and aired, it all.

Source: http://www.time.com/time/columnist/corliss/article/0,9565,585397,00.html

What a fine southern gentleman Mr. Buckley was.

The end of an era. The era of thinking conservatives. Mr. Buckley was respected by all, conservative and liberal. He was always thoughtful, courteous, and reasonable. His opinions were sound, rooted in intellect....
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-dead-but-not-gone/

None his equal.

Other than his loopy take on drug laws, he will indeed be missed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_re_us/obit_buckley

His opinions were sound, rooted in intellect....

The merits of the argument aside, Mr. Buckley irrevocably proved that his brand of candor did not lend itself to public life when an Op-Ed article he wrote for The New York Times offered a partial cure for the AIDS epidemic: “Everyone detected with AIDS should be tattooed in the upper forearm to prevent common needle users, and on the buttocks, to prevent the victimization of homosexuals,” he wrote.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/business/media/27cnd-buckley.html?pagewanted=3

Anyone that correct on Gore Vidal's flaming Blame America 1st paranoia will most assuredly be sitting next to the better angels in Heaven.

“Everyone detected with AIDS should be tattooed in the upper forearm to prevent common needle users, and on the buttocks, to prevent the victimization of homosexuals,” he wrote.

OH HELL YES.

When QH praises someone, you know you are dealing with a solid citizen:

In 1955, Mr. Buckley started National Review as voice for “the disciples of truth, who defend the organic moral order” with a $100,000 gift from his father. The first issue, which came out in November, claimed the publication “stands athwart history yelling Stop.”

It proved it by lining up squarely behind Southern segregationists, saying blacks should be denied the vote. After some conservatives objected, Mr. Buckley suggested instead that both uneducated whites and blacks should not be allowed to vote.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/business/media/27cnd-buckley.html?pagewanted=3&ref=obituaries

He sure was right about w-
"William F. Buckley Jr., the longtime conservative writer and leader, said George W. Bush's presidency will be judged entirely by the outcome of a war in Iraq that is now a failure."

Two things I did like about him-
His Blackford Oakes novels were very fun, and Firing Line was actually a good fair show. Certainly compared to the current version of those type of shows.

It's nice to see the phrase "an actual conservative" make it into your post. There are many people who come to their Conservative philosohy after careful consideration.

The contrast with those who carry the mantle but have abandoned the priciples is stark and is helping to destroy this country's stature as "the land of the free."

I spoke too soon. It was peaceful while it lasted.

Well, we all know that Question Hillary WONT be going to heaven to find out who's there or not.

He's going to have to look to his left (Hitler will be on his right) while shoveling coal, to see just who didn't make it to Heaven.

As for Buckley, he NEVER represented what America should be about.

Are we going to be asked to spew euphemisms when Rush Limbaugh goes?

I won't disrespect the dead, but he did not leave a great legacy, and certainly, not one to follow.

When conservatives finally learn to dump the hate, THEN their contributions might be more favorably looked upon!

"...Especially after the founding of National Review in 1955, Buckley worked hard to prune from conservatism its most unattractive aspects. The first of these was anti-Semitism, which was a running theme of the conservative magazines and organizations of the day. Buckley's father was an ardent anti-Semite, and several of his siblings once burned a cross on the lawn of a Jewish resort, but Buckley's own record is completely free of anti-Semitism. Nor was he ever an isolationist; his closest political colleagues were not America Firsters but ex-leftists whose main concern was a forceful American role in the world. All through the fifties Buckley defended segregation, but by the early sixties he had moved to a position in favor of legal civil rights for blacks. During the same period, he broke decisively with the John Birch Society. Though he began his career as an unyielding reactionary, he moved steadily toward Chambers's and James Burnham's view that conservatives should make accommodations to the real world of politics in order to have more influence..."

Well, nobody's perfect, right 53?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_n3_v20/ai_6536869

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley121302.asp

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley121302.asp

Great lesson.

Liberals won't read or heed, of course.

Actually, on this one, you might have a point. You rarely make much sense, let alone show much coherency. IF Buckly had recanted, then I would have to reconsider my position on him.

QH:

You don't even know what a liberal is.

You managed to make a point, so don't destroy the opportunity by going stupid on me.

QH: I don't think Mr. Buckley would think much of your brand of "conservatism." I enjoy your comments but any self-respecting conservative would be appalled by them.

The attitudes you express -- whether they're real or not -- are everything Buckley and his proteges (like Rich Lowry) hate about contemporary self-described "conservatives."

I hate to sound like a jerk here, but the guy just died and someone has to stick up for what him. Sticking up for him here means pointing out how little he has in common with you, QG.

The racism of the National Review is clearly not all due to William Buckley, who was not able to clean out the entire mess.

Juan Cole caught this in NR,

Ok. Now I've read both articles.

The first one at least says it in print. I think it's believable.

The second one is just plain apologetics for Lott. Pointless, because someone doesn't make a 45 minute "mistake" like Lott did. Lott has no credibility and deserves none.

I CAN say, that you CERTAINLY don't adhere to Buckly's standards of thought on conservativism.

I think it is high time you should!

Buckley was a master propagandist for the American plutocracy. His smoothing and styling of "conservatism" allowed it to become mainstream and enabled Reagan, who enabled Bush, who has wrecked our country.

We are where we are today, mired in endless war, crippled by corruption, choking on debt, and running on the vapors of our exceptionalism, because of the elegantly clad malignant "conservatism" promoted by W.F. Buckley.

So all hail Mr. Buckley, CIA employee, McCarthy defender, racist apologist, homophobe, and defender of the rich. The presidency of G.W. Bush would not have been possible without him.

WFB was more than anything a moral conservative, though he did take his economic Time getting around to the point -- and if he had to quake awake some liberals en route? So be IS.

The GOP was never about any guarantee, other than FREEDOM -- to think, to speak, to act, to grow, to cherish as an INDIVIDUAL, apart from the chains of the state or the slave farm. That's the real deal conservative base, 53.

Running around spreading AIDS, or doing drugs on the community dime (sorry Bill), or expecting students to rise based not on merit but old issues of race not the fault or liability of any modern child, might all one fine day be cured, with a puff of fairy dust or a shrill, strident demonstration cloaked in ACLU legal beaverisms, perhaps, but more likely these and other whining ills will see their demise only when INDIVIDUAL responsibility and self-respect coincides with the earned opportunities laid before us by our forebears, of so many different backgrounds and faiths, and that so many fought and died (still) to achieve not just for themselves, but for their future families and communities, and even persons and places unknown. THAT was and remains the American dream -- nothing more, nothing less.

Buckley understood that, if spastic Vidal never did.

Hillary's right about one thing, at least: Yapping about HOPE from the warm, protected shores of suburbia IS much, much easier than turning mantras and diatribes into something progressively, collectively, historically useful.

The GOP was never about any guarantee, other than FREEDOM -- to think, to speak, to act, to grow, to cherish as an INDIVIDUAL, apart from the chains of the state or the slave farm.

Thanks for a good laugh. I actually thought you were serious there for a minute.

"I enjoy your comments but any self-respecting conservative would be appalled by them."

We freely admit our methods are unconventional.

That does not make them any less useful, or correct.

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"Thanks for a good laugh. I actually thought you were serious there for a minute."

Freedom (which you so often easily confoozle with leftist anarchy) doesn't include gratis phone cards for Al Queda.

Try to know the difference by the next D.C. dinner party, eh?

Hmmm... HH is right and I was wrong for too quickly paying respects. Will any of the obits deal with Buckley's homphobia?

"Will any of the obits deal with Buckley's homphobia?"

Yes, there will be a write-up in HETEROPHOBE MONTHLY as soon as the Nader campaign hits the federal funding minimums.

"who, in the end, was quietly appalled by George W. Bush's radicalism"

Is that gonna be you're epitaph Joke? Even though you gave the Bush Admin a pass at every possible opportunity, you were deep down inside quietly appalled? Somehow, when I woke up this morning, I knew the world was a brighter place for some reason.

QH is quite a poet of freedom. Of course, sometimes freedom requires murder and torture to help spread it. We have a government agency called the CIA that helps our corporations spread freedom to places like Guatemala and Venezuela, even when the local people don't want their leaders assassinated.

When in 1951 I was inducted into the CIA as a deep cover agent, the procedures for disguising my affiliation and my work were unsmilingly comprehensive. It was three months before I was formally permitted to inform my wife what the real reason was for going to Mexico City to live. If, a year later, I had been apprehended, dosed with sodium pentothal, and forced to give out the names of everyone I knew in the CIA, I could have come up with exactly one name, that of my immediate boss (E. Howard Hunt, as it happened). In the passage of time one can indulge in idle talk on spook life. In 1980 I found myself seated next to the former president of Mexico at a ski-area restaurant. What, he asked amiably, had I done when I lived in Mexico? "I tried to undermine your regime, Mr. President." He thought this amusing, and that is all that it was, under the aspect of the heavens.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley%2C_Jr.#Education.2C_military_service_and_the_CIA

Assassination, torture, and destabilization of "unfriendly" governments is just part of freedom-loving America, and QH is certainly proud of W.F. Buckley's secret service to our country.

Freedom (which you so often easily confoozle with leftist anarchy) doesn't include gratis phone cards for Al Queda.

You're funnier when you're not trying to be funny.

Worshiping Dear Leader Generalissimo George Jesus Bush, Commander-in-Chief of the God Jesus Freedom brigade does not mean you love freedom.

Quite the opposite.

Despite his extreme comments--sometimes homophobic, defending autocrats like Franco, Plutocrats as well--he debated his opponents with a level of respect and thoughtfulness that you don't see in today's conservative movement.

He gained tons of respect from me when he wrote this op-ed, withdrawing his support for the Iraq War:

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200602241451.asp

This was a man that said what he thought, and was at a basic level an honorable, worthy opponent.

We freely admit our methods are unconventional.

I don't see any method at all, sir.

"Running around spreading AIDS,.."

Who does that, QH? Anyway, your solutions in the past usually don't conform to Contitutional scrutiny.

"... or doing drugs on the community dime (sorry Bill),"

Most are homeless, QH. You seem to have forgotten that welfare reform was quite a while ago. Get up to date, please!

"... or expecting students to rise based not on merit but old issues of race not the fault or liability of any modern child, might all one fine day be cured, ..."

Affirmative Action has already ended, but what do you say about nepotism, which counted as much, but no more, than "underrepresnted minority"?

And YOU have already, by your actions, made clear you have racial issues you need to resolve before you EVER have any credibility on this subject, anyway!

"...when INDIVIDUAL responsibility and self-respect..."

Then take responsibility for your own frequent hate speech/code and change your tune. Not only change it, MEAN it! PROVE you mean it.

" coincides with the earned opportunities laid before us by our forebears, of so many different backgrounds and faiths,"

Your intolerance of nearly everything not within the Christian / White perspective is so pervasive, you need to reread that line a hundred times. Coming from you, it's empty. Not ONE word of that do you REALLY mean, and IF you do, then show us by changing your hate speech. Whether liberal or conservative, or whatever ethic group, or religion, you CAN convey your conservative ideas WITHOUT the damned hate sh*t!

"and that so many fought and died (still) to achieve not just for themselves, but for their future families and communities, and even persons and places unknown."

That definately applies to WWII, but you jump lines and entire thought processes to label those who disagree with you about Iraq as traitors - or worse! DUMP THE HATE CRAP, QH!

"..THAT was and remains the American dream -- nothing more, nothing less."

You have fallen FAR short of even getting a single idea across, you are so muddled with hate and fear of things that aren't really real, or don't even know about.

YOU need to respect the history that some individuals have EXPERIENCED, QH. And that INCLUDES our racial history. Regardless of whether you like it or not, you will NEVER be able to get your message across disrespecting those memeories and experiences.

And do you know what is particularly ridiculous?

You don't need all this hate crap to get your message across! If you tried, you could get a lot more traction if you dumped that crap and remember that even people who disagree with you are real people, have intelligence, and ARE Americans!

Some funny stuff all around today, though, QH. Welcome back.

Since QH brought up Buckley and Civil Rights

Conservatives' problem with MLK, aside from race, had to do with civil disobedience

Ronald Reagan on MLK's death
..........great tragedy that began when we began compromising with law and order, and people started choosing which laws they'd break."

That was Ronald Reagan, the governor of California, arguing that King had it coming. King was the man who taught people they could choose which laws they'd break--in his soaring exegesis on St. Thomas Aquinas from that Birmingham jail in 1963: "Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust. ... Thus it is that I can urge men to obey the 1954 decision of the Supreme Court, for it is morally right; and I can urge them to disobey segregation ordinances, for they are morally wrong."

WF Buckley on MLK in 1967 (After the "early" 1960's mentioned as a turning point by QH)

In a July 20, 1967 column titled "King-Sized Riot In Newark," imagined the dialogue between a rioter and a magistrate:

"You do realize that there are laws against burning down delicatessen stores? Especially when the manager and his wife are still inside the store?"

"Laws Schmaws. Have you never heard of civil disobedience? Have you never heard of Martin Luther King?"

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/terrified-bean-counters-by-digby-one-of.html

Civil disobedience was at the core of the Civil Rights Movement. People who were willing to use a city's firehoses manned by city firefighters and German Shepherds let lose by city and state troopers on women and children were going not going to change without pressure. There was sometimes no difference between the Klan and the police.

TomT:
We freely admit our methods are unconventional.

I don't see any method at all, sir.

Posted by TomT | February 27, 2008 2:32 PM

-------------
TomT
I just gained a ton of respect for you.

I can grasp the law and order concept, but what I'm really unable to do is to understand what solution there was besides civil disobedience.

For a time, as I remembered, the possibility of outright armed resistance existed. I think that some White Americans really don't realize just how bad it was for Black Americans back then. It took me years to understand, to wit:

I remember the Black Panthers patrolling hallways in my school. They had rifles strapped to their backs.

I remember arguing with H. Rap Brown in my high school class about what might happen with nuclear weapons. He stated that liberty was worth dying for.

It took me years to understand Muhammad Ali, back when he was a brash young man.

I finally understood, and I must say, it is worth it. Most people cry about the second amendment, but at that time, the issue was American citizens with virtually NO real protection under the constitution.

I am not saying that all that happened was right, but to REALLY understand, you have to remember who said "Give me liberty, or give me death" and then look at the situation then.

To some, it meant EXACTLY that.

In the end, for such a big Republican majordomo, that guy failed at a lot of obvious things:

Keeping the neocon fakers from eating the party alive.
Controlling out-of-control partisanship.
Discrediting sheer slimeballs like Rove.
Preventing the plutocrats and theocrats from buying complete control of the Repugs.
Keeping the conservative demagogue industry like Rush and Faux News from destroying their credibility and controlling the public discourse.
Preventing the party from sliding into total cultural backwardness ("Barack HUSSEIN Obama!")
Basically, just preventing the party from sucking.

And this was seemingly because either his ideology or his culture woundn't let him get out of bed with them until too late.

In his defense, both parties are thankfully on the rapid decline.

53_2

The US was blessed that MLK was born. He was considered pretty milquetoast by many in the North, but had eactly the right solution for the time in the South. He was a true American hero. We may be "post-race", but many race-based problems still exist.
Part of the problem that the failure to protect our borders has wrought is the drug culture. A major part of that culture is don't snitch. Witnessed crimes go unreported. Notice any similarity to "Don't Snitch" and an amnesiac Attorney General Gonzales, a current AG who doesn't want to investigate waterboarding, and the Libby pardon? Children gain their moral viewpoint from watching adults. Dont snitch is the Conservative MO.

QH, darling, you're compensating. Your sex tour holiday in rural Mexico doesn't make you a bad person--you'll always be welcome at our party baby.

Didn't Ted Kennedy, or someone, say that if there are such things as poetic justice and reincarnation, William F. Buckley will be reincarnated as an African American cleaning lady?

One less conservative, and one less conservative writer to spead lies. Next issue.

It was a pretty tumultuous time, as I remember. The thing about it is the lack of objectivity. MLK's strategy succeeded. The US stands as the first country in history to have solved egregious ethnic differences without full blown insurrection.

Had H. Rap Brown been White, he might be looked on very differently. There is a lot of talk about the Black Panthers being a terrorist group, but, back then, nobody except the Klan was practicing true, modern terrorist tactics. They had those rifles strapped to their back to protect their kids.

People can say what they want about the Black Panthers and many of those who were more radical than MLK, but there were many streams of resistance then and sometimes I they were the stick and MLK offered the carrot...

A "resistance group", what? Terrorists? How will these people really be looked at in 100 years. It will be interesting to see.

The conservatives just piss me off. Somehow, they think they HAVE to play the hate crap, and I don't see any connection that *must* exist between true conservatism and hate.

Hate is like the guy down the street who keeps showing up at the "conservative" party, drinks all the booze, and won't leave when the party's over.

Couple more things:

The Black panthers were by no means totally innocent of violence. I just forgot when I wrote the above that one faction had a shotgun strapped to a judge's neck (I think this was the "Chicago Seven"), but a lot of what I said was still true. They didn't seem to be tightly organized, the various chapters in various cities were militant to varying degrees. Some, like the chapter here, ran social programs and one recent landmark they had founded here was finally closed due to lack of funding a couple years ago.

Currents and crosscurrents...

The "don't snitch" policy is starting to unravel to some extent, but is still deeply buried. I guess we won't really know the true depth of their corruption for quite a while.

Anyway, it's time for me to get off my soapbox!

Re: Bill Buckley: de mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est.

billie: unless there is something negative that needs to be said whilst others lionize someone just because he is dead.

Malcolm X was the rightful heir to the racial harmony throne.

What did the black community, at large, do to help him?

"Conservatives' problem with MLK, aside from race, had to do with civil disobedience..."

When MLK came out against the Vietnam War, any hope of his getting along with the American majority was gone.

Unfortunately, that same tendency (avoiding military service during war time) has now led to a poor showing at the recruiting and retention level of black soldiers (normally about 20% of the total forces), a major problem that needs to be addressed, where otherwise decent black kids are being sent down the wrong Me Me Me path by the myopic idiots at Howard University and Cal-Berzerkley.

For a group that comes from some brave people, (once) willing to fight and die for their freedom and the freedom of others WITHOUT QUESTION, Senator Obama doesn't show me a whole hell of a lot, nor his newly American wife.

I'll take General Powell, any day, over the neophyte Obamas.

Hopefully candidate McCain will too.

Eventually, the "majority" became the minority, and the war was ended.

MLK opposed the war for this reason, among others:

You yourself pointed out the disproportionate number of Black soldiers. The Vietnam war was essentially a "grinder" for young Black males.

An interesting comment about Malcolm X.

Eventually his contribution to the Civil Rights battle will be recognized, but right at this moment, astonishingly, you are the first to mention his contributions, or that he even had any!

The problem is, when the Constitution itself offers no protection to American citizens, and states, under the "states rights" banner usurped it, would obedience to law and order make sense?

Forget Berkely, it has NOTHING to do with that period of time.

Instead, here is a hint about Civil Rights and a more accurate idea of what it was about:

Think 'Revoluttionary War'...

QH:

Much prefereble to your antagony!

And, exceedingly clear views of Civil Rights, undistorted by revisionism!

Under these conditions, where you raise and discuss issues instead of insulting people gratuitously, I can respect the reasons you would prefer McCain or Powell over Obama.

Colin Powell was duped into supporting The Iraq War.
While the number of Black males entering the military is decreasing, the number enrolling in college is increasing.
African-Americans fought bravely in multiple wars to gain a place where it is no longer required to enlist in the military in greater percentages than reflected by percentages in the general population to be considered patriotic.
The Iraq War has a lot to do with decreased enlistment, but I think that after watching the abandonment of fellow citizens following Katrina, young African-Americans are less willing to head into the grinder for President GW Bush. There may be a big "surge" in African-American enlistment under an Obama Presidency.

After serving with bravery and honor in the segregated armed forces, I'd say Black people don't have to prove crap to their fellow Americans about patriotism.

I'm just truly astonished by QH's commentary.

Now, if he were to engage in this kind of discourse instead of crap like "Al-Kunta", he might get more traction!

53_2:
I'm just truly astonished by QH's commentary.

QH does have periods off lucidity, but think about it
QH met Colin Powell
_Powell was duped into supporting Iraq, and now regrets his decision. QH would push on into Iran. What difference did the meeting make?
_Malcolm X has become, along with MLK, a new Conservative folk hero. Think about QH's commentary when QH reverts to form. Do you see either Malcolm X or MLK having any true respect for QH if they saw all the posts?
If Conservatives are exorcised by the lack of a flag lapel pin, a wife's college thesis on the racial divide, etc, do you truly believe they would accept a Malcolm X style candidate?
_The QH meeting with Colin Powell meeting raises another issue. Colin Powell is brave enough to clearly state his opposition to the war. Powell also stated clearly that he would not have voted for Pat Buchanan if Buchanan were the GOP nominee. Most Black Republicans go along with the GOP Party line. There are a variety of Black voices in the Democratic Party, half supporting Barack Obama and half supporting Hillary Clinton. How diverse are voices within the GOP? The Black GOP can always come out of the woodwork to decry pathology in the African-American community. Drug use is bad. Lack of parental supervision is bad, etc. If you have attended an Operation Push Conference or heard Rev Al Sharpton speak, the message is no different. The same message was heard from academics, activists and politicians at the State of the Black Union Conference last weekend.
Al Sharpton has criticized the use of profanity and derogatory words against wwomen in rap songs. In response, rapper David Banner mentions Rev Sharpton in a very negative way in one of Banner's hardcore rap songs. Sharpton himself in the same category that C Delores Tucker found herself when she criticized rap lyrics. Black Republicans cannot take credit for being lone voices addressing internal issues in the community.
Several Caucasian Republicans have spoken against the war in iraq. With the noticeable exception of Colin Powell, how many Black Republicans will go against the grain of concensus GOP thought? My impression is that they go along to get along.
How many people actually think Condoleeza Rice has been a competent Sec of State? If Rice were a SoS in a Democratic administration, we would be hearig that she was an affirmative action hire, even from some Black Republicans. When you read the Black Republican magazine you will see historical references to the bigotry of the Democratic Party of old, and apologetics for the impact of Bush economics on the African-American poor. No one is brave enough to address the reasons that the majority of Blacks reject the GOP today. Those reasons lie within the GOP itself.
QH is saddened about the decreased enlistment of African-Americans in the military while they are instead obtaining degrees from Howard and Berkeley. Bamboozlement.

mrd0000:

No worries here. I am by no means fooled by Question Hillary!

I'm not sure Colin Powell, and most reasonably-minded individuals would apprciate QH, let alone the leaders of the Civil Rights movement.

If you've noticed, since our combined efforts with RKA, smedley and others to apprise him of the downside of codifying racism, he has been more reticent in doing it. He changed his approach somewhat as a result since we gang tackled him.

He since has gone about as low as they come with KT's memorial piece, and he's gotten constant bombardment from all of us.

He hasn't changed inside, I think, but his discourse is changing outside - but only to an extent.

I'm sure you noticed the "Al-Kunta" item in one of his posts. Knowing QH, I interpret that as a sneaky attempt to equate Blacks Americans with Al-Queda via Alex Haley's "Roots". This may be too deep an "analysis" for some, but I'm sure he knew it.

We have succeeded to some extent in encouraging him not to try revisionism when descussing civil rights. He is showing some grasp of the idea that discussing Civil Rights in it's real context with all the warts can be much more productive than revisionism.

As for the Black GOP, I am pretty shocked at their behaviour.

I wrote them (the Black Republican Caucus) a letter last year blasting them for their attempts at revisionism, commenting that they should be ashamed and embarrassed for attempting it.

The Black Republican Caucus, Alan Keyes and Clarence Thomas are participants in an attitude, embarrasingly, that is best described in an old book featureing Huckleberry Finn...

The Black GOP is a strange "crewe" indeed!

My personal wish isn't really to change QH's mind about anything. QH is representative of anybody with a like mind, and I know them well from the '80s and '90s.

With QH, I am demonstrating to everyone that discourse on race can be done without anyone needing to feel guilty or angry, and that hate speech/code are counterproductive and only serve to antagonize.

QH is just one of thousands of like minded individuals who consider hate as a legitimate venue for political discourse. Many who haven't posted may see our Swampland threads and pick up on what we have been doing here.

My motivation is simple:

All I'm hoping for a tiny, but successful contribution towards essentally eradicating hate as a political vehicle. I think, if I can help with what will be a long, LONG process, and it is successful, I will have done some good in this world.

53_2

Message received. I have observed QH's brief periods of lucidity, but QH just can't help reverting to form. My attempt at clarifying who QH is was obviously not needed

On another note. Taylor Marsh who is a Hillary Clinton supporter has a blog that is really over the top in her dislike for Obama. Oliver Willis refreed to it today.

http://taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27104

The Taylor Marsh blog provides a viewpoint that I am amazed is out there. I think most Democratic Primary voters respect both Obama and Clinton, but would just prefer one over the other. Either candidate would get the vote in November. When I compare their positions on websites and in interviews, Obama wins. I have even taken several of "pick a political position" questionnaires regarding a Presidential candidate's views on healthcare, Iraq, etc in USA Today and the SF Chronicle (or was the Boston Globe) as a joke. Suprisingly, in both cases, Obama's position was closest to mine. Interestingly, the difference between Hillary and John McCain in both cases was not that great. I do take the results with a large grain of salt.

mrd0000:

On QH's character, I've been pounding him not really so much that I have any *personal* vendetta, but I want people (and there are a lot of 'em) who think that this sort of stuff is normal discourse.

Most Americans who weren't adults in the '80s and '90s don't really realize how hard the Republicans worked to include people like QH in "normal political discourse".

You've heard their constant harping on "diversity of opinion", I'm sure...

I looked at the video newsclip and I think that this is more of Hillary complaining that she's being sabotaged.

I think the real reason is that after so long being put on the defensive, Democrats see real hope of a leader that will deliver change. Of course, delivering on the promise will be hard.

I think Obama, even above McCain, is truly the most independent of special interests of all of them.

I don't know how much protectionist is in you, but I've seen a LOT of damage from globalization and free traders. I think we both know who will lose jobs first...

I've started seeing some VERY unsettling newspieces on the economy, too. They are along the lines of what I think might happen if things don't get fixed, but I don't want to go there...

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العاب ،
دليل ،
منتديات ،
منتدى ،
مسجات ،
افلام ،
العاب سيارات ،
بيجامات ،
اكسسورات للموبايل ،
اكسسورات للجوال ،
فساتين اطفال ،
العاب طبخ ،
العاب الطبخ ،
القران الكريم ،
رسول الله ،
محاضرات ،
خطب ،
فيديو ،
صور ،
بلوتوث ،
برامج ،
برامج جوال ،
باربي ،
العاب تلبيس ،
نغمات ،
ازياء ،
أزياء ،
موضه ،
موضة ،
طبخ ،
مكياج ،
اناشيد ،
اناشيد مشاري العفاسي ،
عبايات ،
زهير مراد ،
احذيه ،
بدلات ،
ازياء روعه ،
مريم الحمادي ،
نقوش حنه ،
مكياج 2008 ،
مناكير ،
اقنعة للوجه ،
احمر شفاه ،
فتوح الفهد ،
اذان مكة ،
اناشيد طيور الجنة ،
اناشيد اطفال ،
اناشيد جديدة ،
أناشيد ،
تحميل اناشيد ،
دعاء ،
وظائف ،
توظيف ،
طب ،
صحه ،
شعر ،
شعر صوتي ،
خواطر ،
خواطر قصيرة ،
قصص ،
قصص قصيرة ،
قصص مرعبة ،
قصص حقيقية ،
قصص رومنسية ،
قصص اطفال ،
قصص واقعية ،
فساتين سهرة ،
فساتين ،
فساتين اعراس ،
جلابيات ،
جلابيات اليشمك ،
ديكور ،
الطفل ،
المرأة ،
مسجات ،
ديكورالمنزل ،
ديكور الحديقة ،
تصاميم ديكور ،
ديكور المطبخ ،
ستائر ،
مفارش ،
زفة العروس ،
زفات عروس ،
موديلات عروس ،
العروس ،
مسكات عروس ،
صور مكياج ،
مكياج جديد ،
العاب بنا ت ،
العاب للبنات فقط ،
العاب بنات ،
العاب اطفال ،
العاب زوارق ،
العاب بحرية ،
العاب كمبيوتر ،
العاب قتال ،
العاب حرب ،
العاب رياضية ،
العاب دراجات ،
العاب دراجات نارية ،
العاب السيارات ،
العاب اكشن ،
العا ب ،
ألعاب ،
نكت ،
مسجات حب ،
مسجات رومنسية ،
مسجات عراقية ،
مسجات مصرية ،
مسجات فراق ،
مسجات عتب ،
مسجات زعل ،
مسجات غرام ،
مسجات هيام ،
العاب كمبيوتر ،
تحميل العاب ،
مسجات جديدة ،
احلى المسجات ،
مسجات 2008 ،
مسجات غزل ،
نكت محششين ،
نكت 2008 ،
نكت جديدة ،
العاب فلاش ،
كورة ،
كرة قدم ،
اخبار الرياضة ،
رياضة ،
تحميل برامج ،
برامج كمبيوتر ،
تحميل برامج ،
كراك ،
سيريل ،
برامج جديدة ،
برامج تصميم ،
برامج عربية ،
برامج لاب توب ،
فتوشوب ،
فرش ،
ستايلات فتوشوب ،
خطوط عربية ،
خطوط انجليزية ،
خطوط جديدة ،
دروس فتوشوب ،
خامات ،
نغمات اسلامية ،
نغمات ،
mp3،
نغمات جديدة ،
نغمات نوكيا ،
برامج نوكيا ،
ثيمات جوال ،
ثيمات نوكيا ،
برامج اسلامية ،
برامج جوال اسلامية ،
ثيمات سوني ،
تنزيل ثيمات ،
ثيمات خاصة ،
ثيمات الجيل الثالث ،
ثيمات فنانين ،
ثيمات لاعبين ،
ثيمات فنانات ،
ثيمات متحركه ،
الماسنجر ،
مسنجر ،
تحميل الماسنجر ،
ماسنجر 9 ،
صور ماسنجر ،
توبيكات ،
توبيكات ماسنجر ،
ماسنجر الهوت ميل
ماسنجر بلس ،
بطاطس ،
شيز كيك ،
مقبلات ،
ماسنجر الياهو ،
تحميل فيديو ،
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فيديو مضحك ،
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فيديو حقيقي ،
مقاطع فيديو ،
صور رومانسية ،
صور بنات ،
صور مضحكة ،
صور غريبه ،
صور متحركة
خلفيات ،
صور مسلسل نور ،
شنط ،
كوليكشن ،
احذيه ،
صنادل ،
hotmail ،
صور حب ،
تحميل صور ،
صور مرعبة ،
صور جن ،
يوتيوب ،
youtube ،
يوتوب ،
مقاطع يتويوب ،
تحميل يتويوب ،
جديد اليوتيوب ،
جديد الافلام العربية ،
تحميل افلام عربية ،
بوسترات افلام عربية ،
مشاهدة الافلام العربية ،
تنزيل الافلام ،
جديد الافلام الاجنبية ،
اروع الافلام الاجنبية ،
تسريحات العروس ،
بوكيهات العروس ،
بوكيهات ،
ماتحتاجه العروس ،
كاسات عرايس ،
عقود للعروس ،
تحميل الافلام الاجنبية ،
بوسترات الافلام الاجنبية ،
تنزيل الافلام الاجنبية ،
تحميل المسرحيات العربية ،
مسرحيات خليجية ،
مسرحيات طارق العلي ،
مسرحيات مصرية ،
قمصان نوم ،
بطاقات زفاف ،
سلطات ،
ايس كريم ،
ايسكريم ،
المندي ،
فيديو مرعب ،
صور نور ،
صور هدايا ،
مسكات ،
مسكات العروس ،
تسريحات ،
تنزيل مسرحيات ،
مشاهدة مسرحيات ،
مسرحيات ،
صور مطابخ ،
مغاسل ،
مرايا ،
صور مهند ،
صور لميس ،
ثريات ،
غرف طعام ،
افلام عربية ،
افلام اجنبية ،
افلام انجليزية ،
افلام كرتون ،
انمي ،
you tube ،
يو تيوب ،
مسلسل نور ،
غرف الضيوف ،
غرف نوم ،
مكياج العروس ،
دبل ،
فساتين زفاف ،
مسلسل نور التركي ،
ترافيان ،
رسائل حب ،
صور اطفال ،
ازياء محجبات ،
ارواب حمام ،
ربطات الحجاب ،
بلايز ،
ياهو ،
الغاز ،
hotmail.com ،
صور للماسنجر ،
العاب 2008 ،
محول الصوتيات ،
العاب بنت ،
بلياردو اون لاين ،
سابك ،
المسافرون العرب ،
ألعاب طبخ ،
الياهو ،
تحميل مسلسل نور ،
تحميل افلام كرتون ،
تحميل الانمي ،
جديد افلام الكرتون ،
جديد الانمي ،
توم وجيري ،
افلام كرتون للاطفال ،
صور افلام كرتون ،
صور انمي ،
رسايل حب ،
صور توم وجيري ،
نقوش حناء للعروس ،
تاج العروس ،
كوشات ،
فساتين بنات ،
تحميل صور افلام كرتون ،
اروع صور الانمي ،
صور افلام كرتون ،
تلبيس ،
العاب ميك اب ،
العاب طبخ ،
ألعاب بنات ،
ألعاب بنوتات ،
العاب بحرية ،
العاب زوارق ،
سنوات الضياع ،
مسلسل سنوات الضياع ،
العاب قوارب ،
كتب طبخ ،
المطبخ ،
الكيك ،
كيك ،
شاورما ،

العاب ،
دليل ،
منتديات ،
منتدى ،
مسجات ،
افلام ،
العاب سيارات ،
بيجامات ،
اكسسورات للموبايل ،
اكسسورات للجوال ،
فساتين اطفال ،
العاب طبخ ،
العاب الطبخ ،
القران الكريم ،
رسول الله ،
محاضرات ،
خطب ،
فيديو ،
صور ،
بلوتوث ،
برامج ،
برامج جوال ،
باربي ،
العاب تلبيس ،
نغمات ،
ازياء ،
أزياء ،
موضه ،
موضة ،
طبخ ،
مكياج ،
اناشيد ،
اناشيد مشاري العفاسي ،
عبايات ،
زهير مراد ،
احذيه ،
بدلات ،
ازياء روعه ،
مريم الحمادي ،
نقوش حنه ،
مكياج 2008 ،
مناكير ،
اقنعة للوجه ،
احمر شفاه ،
فتوح الفهد ،
اذان مكة ،
اناشيد طيور الجنة ،
اناشيد اطفال ،
اناشيد جديدة ،
أناشيد ،
تحميل اناشيد ،
دعاء ،
وظائف ،
توظيف ،
طب ،
صحه ،
شعر ،
شعر صوتي ،
خواطر ،
خواطر قصيرة ،
قصص ،
قصص قصيرة ،
قصص مرعبة ،
قصص حقيقية ،
قصص رومنسية ،
قصص اطفال ،
قصص واقعية ،
فساتين سهرة ،
فساتين ،
فساتين اعراس ،
جلابيات ،
جلابيات اليشمك ،
ديكور ،
الطفل ،
المرأة ،
مسجات ،
ديكورالمنزل ،
ديكور الحديقة ،
تصاميم ديكور ،
ديكور المطبخ ،
ستائر ،
مفارش ،
زفة العروس ،
زفات عروس ،
موديلات عروس ،
العروس ،
مسكات عروس ،
صور مكياج ،
مكياج جديد ،
العاب بنا ت ،
العاب للبنات فقط ،
العاب بنات ،
العاب اطفال ،
العاب زوارق ،
العاب بحرية ،
العاب كمبيوتر ،
العاب قتال ،
العاب حرب ،
العاب رياضية ،
العاب دراجات ،
العاب دراجات نارية ،
العاب السيارات ،
العاب اكشن ،
العا ب ،
ألعاب ،
نكت ،
مسجات حب ،
مسجات رومنسية ،
مسجات عراقية ،
مسجات مصرية ،
مسجات فراق ،
مسجات عتب ،
مسجات زعل ،
مسجات غرام ،
مسجات هيام ،
العاب كمبيوتر ،
تحميل العاب ،
مسجات جديدة ،
احلى المسجات ،
مسجات 2008 ،
مسجات غزل ،
نكت محششين ،
نكت 2008 ،
نكت جديدة ،
العاب فلاش ،
كورة ،
كرة قدم ،
اخبار الرياضة ،
رياضة ،
تحميل برامج ،
برامج كمبيوتر ،
تحميل برامج ،
كراك ،
سيريل ،
برامج جديدة ،
برامج تصميم ،
برامج عربية ،
برامج لاب توب ،
فتوشوب ،
فرش ،
ستايلات فتوشوب ،
خطوط عربية ،
خطوط انجليزية ،
خطوط جديدة ،
دروس فتوشوب ،
خامات ،
نغمات اسلامية ،
نغمات ،
mp3،
نغمات جديدة ،
نغمات نوكيا ،
برامج نوكيا ،
ثيمات جوال ،
ثيمات نوكيا ،
برامج اسلامية ،
برامج جوال اسلامية ،
ثيمات سوني ،
تنزيل ثيمات ،
ثيمات خاصة ،
ثيمات الجيل الثالث ،
ثيمات فنانين ،
ثيمات لاعبين ،
ثيمات فنانات ،
ثيمات متحركه ،
الماسنجر ،
مسنجر ،
تحميل الماسنجر ،
ماسنجر 9 ،
صور ماسنجر ،
توبيكات ،
توبيكات ماسنجر ،
ماسنجر الهوت ميل
ماسنجر بلس ،
بطاطس ،
شيز كيك ،
مقبلات ،
ماسنجر الياهو ،
تحميل فيديو ،
تنزيل فيديو ،
جديد الفيديو ،
فيديو مضحك ،
فيديو حزين ،
فيديو حقيقي ،
مقاطع فيديو ،
صور رومانسية ،
صور بنات ،
صور مضحكة ،
صور غريبه ،
صور متحركة
خلفيات ،
صور مسلسل نور ،
شنط ،
كوليكشن ،
احذيه ،
صنادل ،
hotmail ،
صور حب ،
تحميل صور ،
صور مرعبة ،
صور جن ،
يوتيوب ،
youtube ،
يوتوب ،
مقاطع يتويوب ،
تحميل يتويوب ،
جديد اليوتيوب ،
جديد الافلام العربية ،
تحميل افلام عربية ،
بوسترات افلام عربية ،
مشاهدة الافلام العربية ،
تنزيل الافلام ،
جديد الافلام الاجنبية ،
اروع الافلام الاجنبية ،
تسريحات العروس ،
بوكيهات العروس ،
بوكيهات ،
ماتحتاجه العروس ،
كاسات عرايس ،
عقود للعروس ،
تحميل الافلام الاجنبية ،
بوسترات الافلام الاجنبية ،
تنزيل الافلام الاجنبية ،
تحميل المسرحيات العربية ،
مسرحيات خليجية ،
مسرحيات طارق العلي ،
مسرحيات مصرية ،
قمصان نوم ،
بطاقات زفاف ،
سلطات ،
ايس كريم ،
ايسكريم ،
المندي ،
فيديو مرعب ،
صور نور ،
صور هدايا ،
مسكات ،
مسكات العروس ،
تسريحات ،
تنزيل مسرحيات ،
مشاهدة مسرحيات ،
مسرحيات ،
صور مطابخ ،
مغاسل ،
مرايا ،
صور مهند ،
صور لميس ،
ثريات ،
غرف طعام ،
افلام عربية ،
افلام اجنبية ،
افلام انجليزية ،
افلام كرتون ،
انمي ،
you tube ،
يو تيوب ،
مسلسل نور ،
غرف الضيوف ،
غرف نوم ،
مكياج العروس ،
دبل ،
فساتين زفاف ،
مسلسل نور التركي ،
ترافيان ،
رسائل حب ،
صور اطفال ،
ازياء محجبات ،
ارواب حمام ،
ربطات الحجاب ،
بلايز ،
ياهو ،
الغاز ،
صور لميس ،
صور سنوات الضياع ،
لميس ،
hotmail.com ،
صور للماسنجر ،
العاب 2008 ،
محول الصوتيات ،
العاب بنت ،
بلياردو اون لاين ،
سابك ،
المسافرون العرب ،
ألعاب طبخ ،
الياهو ،
تحميل مسلسل نور ،
تحميل افلام كرتون ،
تحميل الانمي ،
جديد افلام الكرتون ،
جديد الانمي ،
توم وجيري ،
افلام كرتون للاطفال ،
صور افلام كرتون ،
صور انمي ،
رسايل حب ،
صور توم وجيري ،
نقوش حناء للعروس ،
تاج العروس ،
كوشات ،
فساتين بنات ،
تحميل صور افلام كرتون ،
اروع صور الانمي ،
صور افلام كرتون ،