We Legitimized Waterboarding

The thing to remember is that waterboarding, and SERE training in general, was not designed to combat interrogations meant to obtain information--which is the persistent claim of the administration's spokespeople for the use of these torture techniques.

The NKorean's (and, ftm, Inquisition's) use of these torture methods was to extract false confessions. SERE training was meant to help captured soldiers to resist signing false confessions. It has nothing to do with obtaining intelligence. It has to do with authoritarian terror--right out of Owell.

I think there are a few people they will thank more than others.

Unfortunately that's not true. When Americans descend into barbarism, I don't get a pass because I disapproved. It degrades all of us.

The two big cultural shocks I will never quite get used to are the widespread, not acceptance, but embrace and demands for torture and trying children as adults.

I'm as dark and cynical as anyone, and after watching a few episodes of 24, I can see wanting to sort of winkingly accept some rough stuff goes on under the table that the government resorts to on occasion, but I never thought it would become so openly lauded and embraced. To be against torture is the taboo, and the applause line in Republican debates goes to whoever can demonstrate the least amount of restraint in cruelty.

I see the same thing with kids here in Texas... the age they want to execute or throw children in prison for life gets younger and younger. Maybe I've just known too many kids in bad situations, but when I hear about an eight-year-old kid doing something, I want to call CPS and get them the hell out. Here in Texas, they want them swinging from the noose, and are outraged at anything short of that.

I have this right-wing, pro-torture friend who's dad wrote about his experiences as a Japanese POW in WWII, and there was this one section I always bring up whenever he goes off on torturing people. There's this moment where the camp is liberated, and the prisoners were all given a chance to do to their former captors what they did to them. They turned down the offer because as he put it, "We were Americans. We didn't do stuff like that." (What did they do to his dad that so fills my friend with rage? Made him stand in stress positions for hours, of course! Oh, irony.)

What happened to that America? What happened to the America that was slow to war but quick to victory? What eroded our faith in the system that made us the envy of the world so that we had to dismantle it?

Everything I thought I loved about this country turned out to be a fraud on 9/11. It unleashed something horribly, horribly ugly in us, and it's so demoralizing. I really, truly thought we were a different kind of Empire, as the Europeans did, that we would not get drunk with power and undo ourselves with our greed, but we are no better than any other superpower that came before us, and the ingenious system of our forefathers was not nearly as enduring as I once hoped.

Where does our moral authority derive, if not from our morality?

The bigger stick.

When I was growing up, the fictional character we wanted to be was Atticus Finch.

Now everyone wants to be Jack Bauer....

The sad thing is that one day American will be in the hands of bad people. I wonder how we will react, in this day of youtube, when we see the pictures which will find their way into the internet. As you sow....

Great quote, AMC. Got a link to the person who made it?

I have no desire to ever watch an episode of "24". Terrorism as entertainment isn't entertaining. (Witness the death of "The Kingdom" at the box office.) Anything that you know will get pulled off the air in the event of an actual terror attack on the U.S. is probably something you don't need to be watching.

(The one exception to this is the original "Die Hard", which -- REALLY OLD SPOILER ALERT -- was actually a robbery.)

"Forget threats, poor food, the occasional face slap and sexual assaults."

Umm, does one of these things seem a bit different than the others?

Ignoring issues of legality and morality, there are very practical reasons why we should not torture. Unfortunately, the primary reason our use of torture will hurt our troops in the long run is usually overlooked by the media (and many of torture's detractors). The usual argument given is that if we torture then our enemies will torture. Although this argument may have merit in some cases, here's a stronger argument that our military has been aware of for most of this country's history: If you torture, your enemies will fight harder on the battlefield and more of your own troops will die.

For example: during World War II, German troops behaved differently when they were confronted by overwhelming U.S. or Russian force. The Germans were much more likely to surrender to the Americans, and fight to the death against the Russians. The reason was that they knew that they would be treated well by the Americans, but tortured and starved or executed by the Russians. There was no advantage to surrendering to the Russians, so they didn't -- and more Russian troops died because of it. American generals knew that treating your enemy decently saved the lives of your own troops.

This is the primary reason that some of the most outspoken critics of the torture policy are current and former military. Our anti-torture policies in the past have saved American lives. Our military people know this and don't want to sacrifice future U.S. soldier's lives to this misguided policy.

Yes, let's just CARPET BOMB them instead, kids and all. Skip this silly door-to-door nation building crap.

Really. Truly. Hillary.

Why make only a few suffer for their kin's sins, when we could simply annihilate them all.

I'll have to check on that fat Pelosi Peace Dividend account balance first, and see if Wesley Clark's off duty from Pristina Airport...

Liberals STILL think terrorism exploded with Iraq and waterboarding?

I guess they missed that TALIBAN show in the 1990's.

And the USS COLE.

And KHOBAR TOWERS.

AFRICAN EMBASSIES.

INDONESIA.

SUDAN.

SOMALIA.

YEMEN.

MANILA.

But Wankette and the rest of the Edwards cafeteria Catholic dregs think a terrorist getting his hair wet IS an abomination before their Piedmont pandering perfumed excuse for a candidate?

All due respect to Senator McCain and his VEEP Rudy, please run with that deep message in 2008, libs.

Please.

Code Pinko needs the day jobs, and Kinko's needs the night work.

BTW, shouldn't you and Klein be going on strike soon, with the rest of the strictly loon fiction membership?

"...Everything I thought I loved about this country turned out to be a fraud on 9/11..."

Mexico IS hiring.

We'll help you pack up the Volvo and the life partner.

"Forget threats, poor food, the occasional face slap and sexual assaults."

STOP PICKING ON THE CLINTONS.

If the right feels that Waterboarding is ok, will they allow Police departments to start using waterboarding at the local level?

Also, we supported war crimes charges against the Japanese and Gestapo for their use of Waterboarding. Do we have to issue an official apology for this now?

The same clods that are screaming against alleged and assumed TORTURE would defend to the death their own "right" to on-demand ABORTION.

Don't ever doubt it, or their deadly, Blame America 1st hypocrisy.

BEHEADING OF YOUR KID IN THE STREET is torture.

PUBLIC RAPE OF YOUR DAUGHTER is torture.

GETTING SHOVED INTO A WOOD CHIPPER is torture.

But a free shampoo with scented conditioner?

Please.

The only things Gitmo lacks IS head lice and Harry Reid.

The Greatest Generation also fire bombed Dresden and nuked Japan.

Should we try them for war crimes too?

FDR and Truman must be flipping in their tombs over the bloated rants of TORTURE every time some t-head has his tongue tied by the facts and not the Taliban.

QUESTION HILLARY tm

Does that mean you would support the use of Waterboarding by your local police department? And should we apologize to the Japanese and Gestapo?

FDR and Truman must be flipping in their tombs over the bloated rants of TORTURE

Actually, FDR and Truman called waterboarding torture. Are you say that FDR and Truman are pansies?

bobcn: Bingo! You got it! Both of my German grandfathers considered themselves "lucky" to have been deployed to the western front in WWII.

QH: TIME writers' strike - clever! ;-)

The person I'd like to see brought out as a reason NOT to torture is *Jessica Lynch*! (Remember her?) Captured in combat, we send Delta Force out to rescue her from...a hospital. (ba-dam-bump). Treated humanely, given medical care...by the enemy. What will happen to the NEXT Jessica Lynch? Has Abu Ghaib, Gitmo and the waterboard increased or decreased the chances of the NEXT Jessica Lynch being treated humanely?

I suspect QH is our former SwampSpammer, forced to (barely) behave himself.

Any other takers?

Thanks for the link, Ana...The guy you cited is spot on; y'all should read the full article.

"Liberals STILL think terrorism exploded with Iraq and waterboarding?"

------------

See QH, this is what I don't get about you. Virtually every single thing your post in response to "liberals", is pointing out stuff that Bill Clinton did, or may have done, or was alleged to have done, or was accused of doing by Republicans 10 years ago.

And yet... simply being a Democrat, or supporting a Democrat, does not mean you endorsed and approved of everything Bill Clinton did, nor does it mean you glowingly endorse Hillary Clinton.

Furthermore, you expect Hillary Clinton to carry all of the mistakes of her husband, as though they were her own. They aren't, as much as people like you may want them to be.

Most commenters here appear to support candidates like Obama, Edwards, and Chris Dodd - and yet you continue to demagogue the issues by chanting things like "Somalia! Rwanda!" over and over.

Bill Clinton enjoys high retrospective approval ratings for his Administration, not because Liberals are brainwashed zombies, but because the last 7 years have been terrible. Bush has been a dud, by most Democratic and Republican accounts alike.

So stop childishly conflating the two. It's possible to be a Democrat, or to simply vote for one, without that automatically endorsing every decision every past Democratic President has made. Maybe then you might be taken more seriously, not that I think it's your desire to.

- Scott

"Also, we supported war crimes charges against the Japanese and Gestapo for their use of Waterboarding. Do we have to issue an official apology for this now?"

-----------------------

You also never answered BrotherMaynard's question, QH.

- Scott

QH is exactly the kind of coward we've become. The POW I mentioned who turned down a chance at revenge because, "Americans don't do that," could not say that today. He'd have to say, "Our enemies do it, too," or "like we were saints when we fire bombed Dresden or slaughtered Indians". What I once loved about this country was that even when we did do the wrong things, we always had a Kurt Vonnegut to remind us. Now we have Michele Malkin praising the internment of the Japanese on cable instead. We used to aspire to morality, even if we fell short. We used to not be nihilists and moral relativists who didn't recognize the existence of behaviors we should idealize or aspire to, or crimes we ought to condemn rather than rationalize and justify regardless of self interest.

What is so infuriating is how he's too cowardly to even say what he believes. Stress positions, so hated by my conservative friend when done to his father that to this day he won't buy anything Japanese, is something we do now, and QH says it's not rape. But we do sodomize and rape. We've shoved produce up people's posteriors, and guys like QH say it feels good. Our prisoners are dying at a greater clip than Vietnamese prisoners in that conflict. We have abducted family members of suspects for torture and sexual humiliation and orifice violation. And when the penetration of colons is to restrained, we whisk away American citizens to countries that will do the really rough stuff.

People like QH, if they could ever be honest, don't care. They like it. The fact that they were tortured is all the proof they need to justify it. If they had feces smeared on them, or were beaten to death and put on ice for Americans to snap a photo while they give a thumbs up, then they would have chopped your head off on videotape. Would a guy have a banana in his a$$ if he hadn't done something?

The need for torture, war and vengeance is so great for the armchair warriors and cable news junkies that they would force the agencies responsible for carrying out their bloodlust vicariously to do so against their will, no matter how much they protest it will only make their job of protecting us and winning the war more difficult. Yet they do so with red herrings and diversions: denying we do so, punishing those who refuse to do what we don't do, insisting we have the highest ethical standards while savaging anyone who would dare to suggest any limits on what we do to people, or impose even the most broad and symbolic of guidelines for how one might qualify to be the victim of unrestricted cruelty.

So QH, I want to know, what shouldn't we do in our fight against terrorists? What do you think is out of bounds? When would someone NOT deserve torture? What is it again that gives us our moral authority to lead the world if we don't recognize any authority but our unrestricted right to have our will with anyone who doesn't agree?

"I'm sorry General Patton, I doubt your American tank idea will really work, especially in Europe across our awfully daunting hedge rows and stale hookers." - French Field Marshall Vichy LaFoosh, April 1942

"So I just pull this little trigger here and then... BLAM!" - Sharpshooter Second Class Abbie Hoffman, January 1981

"One really requires the almost total suspension of martial law belief in any over-riding legal authority when accepting more Red Chinese slush fund campaign dough not unlike the most heady Charley Trie decade in Smalls Balls praise the lord and pass the black bag again Amen." - Buddhist People's Army Chaplain Hillary Ramrod Shiksa, September 2007

"Well crap, I'm all out of Band Aids and bogus insignia. Guess I'll just run home and get some more..." - Lt JG Jon Jon Fn Kerry, Grand March of 1969

"Gun control? We thought you said NUN control." - Former Skimmy Tedwads Campaign Sloggers Britchey & Botchie McBarrister of the former Tedwads Campaign for Cafeteria Catholics

"That's one for the money, two for the ho, three makes a weekend, and four to blow." - Secretary of Defense Monica Lewinsky, Christmas 1997

"I'll do whatever Cyrus Vance says on Iran, as long as I'm never again attacked by a rabid rabbit or mean Republican columnist." - His Majesty James Earl Crater

"Slaves at last, slaves at last, thank Allah almighty, slaves at last!" - Sir Lancelot O'Bonger visiting Oakland by hybrid camel, July 4th 2007

"Are you sure your 9MM is clean?" - Staff Sgt Rosie O'Doggie, May Day 2004 somewhere near Central Park

"To hell with the Ho Chi Mihn Trail, they'll never use it. Let's just be sure we stay off the DMZ, I don't want both the United Nations and the Goldwater Girls all over my ass for acting against their perceived threats." - All The Way With LBJ en route to DOA, November 1964

"Daddy!" - Six month Nam vet and Fitin Fotojerkalists of the 357th alum Al iGore, January 2001

"I will defend this perfect prefect with all my humus strength, so help me grapes." - Buck Naked Private Teddy Kennedy standing by for 2 years outside Belgian remedial embassy in Paris during height of Korean War, February 1952

"It really calls into question what the meaning of 'sneak attack' IS." - African Rear Admiral B.J. Clixon, Munich 1972

"Has anyone seen my like idiot brother Zippy?" - Howard Scream traversing the forests of Laos and Highlands of the NVA summer retreat late season sans a Camp Kanary Cambodian Road Map, October Surprise 1980

"Trie-dumb, Trie-dumb, Trie-dumb, gotta take what ya take..." - The Left Honorable Jezze SHAKE IT DOWN Jaxson, 1968-

"This will not stand maybe." - Jefferson Davis on Gettysburg Address (AKA Lincoln-Gate), July 1863.

Mememe keeps getting her Petra Kellified panties confused with winning elections.

Dateline Damascus:

We shrill, strident, supposedly academic liberals keep retro-yapping "We're for the troops, just against their mission" (of seeking actual instead of pretend peace, and freedom, and schools, and soccer, and voting, and cellular networks, and open hospitals, and closed torture chambers).

Proof? Why heck-fire, more than a Kennedy family cookout on Cape Crap for St. Drunkard's Day!

= We loon leftists spend 99.96% of our Pell Grantee time dragging up a 6-pack of misfit rednecks at Abooboo Grape, and state that's the undeniable SOP for the greater U.S. military membership - but we're really for the troops.

= We claim Gitmo is a disgrace (never mind there were more suicides in San Fransisco last week than in all the terror scum brigs combined in the last 3 YEARS) - but we are still for the troops.

= We say CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS, CNN-Time-Turner, and Airhead Jizzera have every right to video-enable terrorism 24-7 with stunning HD clarity (soon involuntarily required by law in all non-cable rural venues) - but we are still for the rural troops.

= The VA and Walter Reed indeed lack a host of specialty workers, medical to research to management, and we Do As I Tell, Not As I Do liberal hacks yet again refuse to serve, even there - but say we are still really almost for the troops.

= Our whining, spoiled Blue State private ivy college campuses (that otherwise glibly accept all available federal funding) refuse to allow American Army recruiters near their $45,000-a-year tuition camels, for fear of upsetting the local tenure cart - but we are still just for the troops.

= Hillary Clixon, Skimmy Edwards, and Obama Chavez aim high to split the Guard & Reserves politically if not socially and militarily from the regular armed forces - but we are still for the troops.

= Fancy Leftosi requires a brand spanking new Air Force 757 to haul her skinny ass to DNC campaign events in Marin County, along with family & friends, while real real deal warrior families have to fly coach to West Germany to meet their field battled political media pawns - but we plead we are still always for the troops.

We also have some fresh waterfront property in New Orleans you might like - if you still stupidly think that the loon left IS (or ever really was) for the troops.

Smell you at the monthly whine & cheese MeetUp!

What will never end, certainly not before any alleged TORTURE does, is the knee-jerk lefty accusations tossed at our troops like some virtual bombs, with assumptions galore that taint the group as though they were all involved in Abu Ghraib or knocking Moomahr's paperback into the can at Gitmo.

BIG FREAKIN WHOOP.

When we start BEHEADING people in the street, as standard operating procedure, or arming toys in playgrounds Soviet-style, or poisoning the wells of the village across the valley, or running arms in ambulances, by all means, then DO wake us.

Otherwise girls, get dressed, get on the bus, get to work, and get me a clean fork.

Having problems dissecting Clinton Spiel from Obama Camp from Edwards Prattle from Cronkite Croaking? Here's some help...

Anti-War: Anti-victory, anti-military (particularly the United States military), anti-democracy, anti-Israel, anti-female education, anti-actual employment, anti-human marriage, anti-pay back your overdue college loan Bruce, anti-shoes, anti-baseline personal hygiene. Not to be confused with true peace and actual justice, at any moment in human history.

Bigot: Any person that freely attends the church or temple of their choice.

Blogger: If with former Senator Skimmy Edwards campaign? See BIGOT, above.

BLT: Bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich (may optionally use mutton for bacon, with similar results). Properly applied to lightly toasted sourdough bread with mayo, it is widely believed to be heaven on earth. May be the key to world peace, if not your own flame-throwing DNC political hack Global Gutter. See EGG SALAD on wheat, as an acceptable substitute if no sacrilegious celery is used.

Diversity: More than one narcissistic Mommy or Daddy living in the same household. Also see MARIN COUNTY.

Halfbright: Maddie (also see CRATER, JIM BOB).

Hate speech: See DEAN, HOWARD.

Homophobia: Safe, effective, politically incorrect antidote for heterophobia.

Justice: Getting back to your Seattle luxury condo from the Earth 1st Soup & Salad MeetUp in time for the 4 o'clock CW re-run of Will & Grace.

Mother Jones: Never heard of him.

NOW: Flailing, fictional PBS series that affords PBS staffers the publicly funded PBS monies to pay the private PBS re-hab bills for their adult PBS stoner kids.

Oral sex: Purely redundant Blue State massage obligation for post-graduate, pre-law license revocation studies.

Oscar ceremony: When some guy named Oscar has a ceremony.

Peace: Use of a special prosecutor or Human Lefts Watch lawyer to harass working Republicans.

Penis: Allah's worst invention, after the vagina.

Petra Kelly: Last known leftist to hold an actual day job. Also see FRANCO, FRANCISCO and GERMANY, FORMER EAST for similar political results.

Pinprick: Lowest common legal denominator for stellar 4-month liberal war hero's GET ME HOME NOW, DADDY medal qualifiers.

Sven Ifill Tower Records: Tall, empty, soul-less shell of a fading leftist archival media lieberry found in Paris, France, with a rather unreasonable facsimile version in Washington, DC. Publicly funded, less speaking fees.

Ugly Truth: See GEFFEN, DAVID.

Unilateral Surrender: Core DNA sample results from most American liberals of post-Truman appeasement era (also see KENNEDY, FONDA, HAYDEN, MCGOVERN, CASTRO, CHAVEZ, LETTERMAN, LENO, UNCLE HO for related details before purchase).

More here soon!

WORTH A RWANDAN RE-LINK-A-RENO...

Liberals STILL think terrorism exploded with Iraq and waterboarding?

I guess they missed that TALIBAN show in the 1990's.

And the USS COLE.

And KHOBAR TOWERS.

AFRICAN EMBASSIES.

INDONESIA.

SUDAN.

SOMALIA.

YEMEN.

MANILA.

But Wankette and the rest of the Edwards cafeteria Catholic dregs think a terrorist getting his hair wet IS an abomination before their Piedmont pandering perfumed excuse for a candidate?

All due respect to Senator McCain and his VEEP Rudy, please run with that deep message in 2008, libs.

Please.

Code Pinko needs the day jobs, and Kinko's needs the night work.

BTW, shouldn't you and Klein be going on strike soon, with the rest of the strictly loon fiction membership?

I made QH angry...

With so many Americans still trying to justify the use of torture with totally fallacious arguments, the United States cannot seriously pretend to have any moral superiority on anyone. Past and present abuses by American officials and soldiers only ensure that captured American soldiers will most probably be tortured from now on. Then, don't come crying indignantly about what others are doing to Americans, because you will be rightly called a hypocrite.

I thought that Swampland was now regulated. What is QH still doing here, spewing his idiotic nonsense? He has repeatedly proved that he has absolutely nothing positive to contribute to this blog and can only sour any attempt at an intelligent debate.

wow. that post you linked to Ana is the most incredible thing I've read in some time.

I did not know what waterboarding meant. Now I do, and I second memekiller. Your post on culture shocks captures my mood about my country exactly. Then I think back to how I felt on 9/10 and I hate what Cheny/Bush/Yoo/Gonzo et al have done.

I wish I knew how to stop it.

Martin asks:
I thought that Swampland was now regulated. What is QH still doing here, spewing his idiotic nonsense?

this is the first time QH has used his "cut and paste numerous long, off-topic rants" technique.

unfortunately, there does not seem to be a way to notify anyone of this kind of crap, but he'll be gone soon enough.

"...unfortunately, there does not seem to be a way to notify anyone of this kind of crap, but he'll be gone soon enough..."

Same old Kos Klowns.

When you can't win the debate on facts?

Censor!

What a legacy.

Stalin, Hitler, and Uncle Ho would be so proud.

WORTH A RWANDAN RE-LINK-A-RENO RE-DO...

Liberals STILL think terrorism exploded with Iraq and waterboarding?

I guess they missed that TALIBAN show in the 1990's.

And the USS COLE.

And KHOBAR TOWERS.

AFRICAN EMBASSIES.

INDONESIA.

SUDAN.

SOMALIA.

YEMEN.

MANILA.

WTC I.

WACO.

SOUTH BEACH.

But Wankette and the rest of the Edwards cafeteria Catholic dregs think a terrorist getting his hair wet IS an abomination before their Piedmont pandering perfumed excuse for a candidate?

All due respect to Senator McCain and his VEEP Rudy, please run with that deep message in 2008, libs.

Please.

Code Pinko needs the day jobs, and Kinko's needs the night work.

BTW, shouldn't you and Klein be going on strike soon, with the rest of the strictly loon fiction membership?

"...Past and present abuses by American officials and soldiers only ensure that captured American soldiers will most probably be tortured from now on..."

JESUS H. CHRIST, SKIPPY.

They have ALREADY tortured our troops, and innocents, and allies -- WITHOUT PROVOCATION.

9-11 RING ANY BELLS?

USS COLE?

KHOBAR TOWERS?

AFRICAN EMBASSIES?

PENTAGON?

PENNSYLVANIA?

Try the pawn shop, ask for Lou, and use a pillow to at least keep the mess less in front of the kids, eh Abbie?

Halloween 2007 Topic, for group discussion:

What are the best earth-friendly uses for any brain dead retro-McGovernite?

Estate lawn or golf course mulch?

Winter car battery blanket in Vermont or Maine?

Drop cloth at the local 10 Minute Oil & Lube Pit?

Bumper pad on any Kennedymobile?

Flotation device in any Kennedymobile and/or seaplane?

Something soft for all those millions of innocent pine trees to fall upon, in the Time-Life yellow rag production process?

Someone for Mother Jones to chat up?

Guest host on Letterman?

Freebie with your next purchase of $500 or more at Whole Ferns Market?

Health & beauty planner for Code Pink?

SEC escort at Kos Klowns?

Jane Fonda's next major squeeze?

John Kerry's next VEEP pick?

Managing editor at the New York Timid?

Golly gosh Halloween week IS fun!

"When you can't win the debate on facts? CENSOR!"

-------------------------------

This pretty much sums you up, QH. Perpetually missing the point, but going down screaming regardless.

Were you to engage in half-way reasonable discussion, and not cut and paste foolishness that makes you sound like you're skipping several different medications, you would be responded to in kind.

- Scott

Gosh Scooter, I do think I get the point, actually:

Libs are more concerned with prosecuting our troops, than with our prosecuting the war.

Never mind that 99.9% of our armed forces serve with honor and dignity not found near any Ivy League campus.

But this IS not a new phenomenon.

You can go back to at least the Civil War, and the history from the semi-pacifists IS not all that different: Whiners, slackers, mal-contents, head cases, academic monks on mountains high, and your basic losers.

On the other hand, we can't all be the shining examples that the Clinton, Gore, and Kerry klans have set, eh?

IS I really missing anything?

Libs obfuscate, orchestrate, masturbate -- but rarely get much done, of merit.

Maybe when that Pelosi Peace Dividend kicks in, and the libs pay back their overdue student loans -- how many poor kids would that feed, in America? -- we can discuss some new priorities, like defending the nation from enemies foreign and domestic, and other precipitate of the failed socialist policies and political pandering of the past.

"...we supported war crimes charges against the Japanese and Gestapo for their use of Waterboarding..."

You want to re-examine your equivocations, Junior -- or just continue making an ass out of yourself online?

We supported war crimes charges against the Nazi's and Empire's MASS MURDERS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. Not exactly waterboarding damage.

Get your facts straight, or get off the board.

"Are you say that FDR and Truman are pansies?"

You mean the geniuses of Yalta and the UN status quo?

History will judge that loose pair, if not already.

FDR was dragged kicking & screaming into Europe by Churchill -- and his incarceration of innocent Japanese-Americans in concentration camps (no other word for them) makes the 3 or so alleged incidents of oh-so-evil waterboarding look like an afternoon with Vidal Sassoon.

Proper, aggressive, legal interrogation of terrorists will continue.

Liberals will just have to get used to actual Americans caring enough to make the case, and defend the cause.

Useless Senate Chickenfooters Anti-Victory Debate Update # 251 (collect them all):

Co-Senator Hipplery Clixon: "I will surrender Iraq and the greater Middle Eats to Iran by January 2009. I helped create the Boat People fleeing from communist Vietnam, and By Borat I can do the same for Iraq. I mean, IS that a legacy, or what? Then I will toss a Pepsi bottle across the kitchen at Blozo. Have a happy New Killing Fields!"

Senator Pepe Hagel: "I will surrender Iraq and the greater Middle Class to Iran by January 2008. Then I will declare my Canadian citizenship, once and for all."

Senator Biden Xerox: "I will surrender Iraq and the greater Middle Sex to Iran by last June 2007. Then I will thank my black maid Bessie and black limo driver Rufus for being, well, black."

Senator Ho Chi Richardson: "I will be attending North Korea's next ICBM launch party, but will surrender Iraq and everything not the Dodgers west of the Mississippi as soon as I'm back from Pyongyang."

Senator Booboo Boxer: "I'm just back from the ribbon cutting ceremony in Damascus for Jimmy Carter's latest HABITAT FOR HEZBOLLAH. Have we surrendered to Mexico yet?"

Senator TV Chuck Schoooooooooooooomer: "I will surrender my new book, preaching involuntary socialism to Babs & Booby Barrister, for just $19.95 plus tax, taxable in every state, in every mode of sale, taxable before birth, taxable in life, taxable after death, tax tax tax..."

Senator Harry CENTURY 21 AGENT Reid: "I will surrender 40 acres and a mule not my own to the highest Mafia bidder."

Senator Ted SCUBA Kennedy: "I surrendered, eh ya, to Jack Daniels, eh ya, years ago. Urp."

Senator Jon Jon Kanary: "As long as there's a bogus medal to be had, I will report for surrender, er, duty."

Co-Senator Hipplery Clixon: "I see your early surrenders, and raise you 2 fat interns and a redneck racist cracker half-wit brother-in-law that tells slave jokes on the golf course with Blozo in tow."

Senator Olympus Snowed: "I am no Margot Chase Smith, never was, never will be, and therefore today surrender the great state of Maine to mighty Vermont. Go Patriots!"

Senator Booboo Boxer: "Have we surrendered to Mexico yet? I have a hair appointment, then have to get my stirrup pants waxed."

Senator Ben DeNova: "Speaking for all the other mostly no-name DNC coward hacks, we simply can't surrender fast enough, on anything of merit."

Senator Henry Waxlike: "I am not an appeasing, narcissistic democrap Senator. I just act like one on PBS."

Senator Kinky Coleman: "I may as well be a democrap, because the GOP sure as hell won't want me around for another half-assed term."

Senator Junior Pryor: "My daddy was a Senator too! Only, he had a spine."

Co-Senator Hipplery Clixon: "G-D it, when threatened, I will surrender this currently free nation and our brave allies faster than you can say CO-IMPEACHMENT, er RWANDA, uh SOMALIA, oh USS COLE, oops WACO, duh SOUTH BEACH, maybe AFRICAN EMBASSIES, or perhaps WTC I, then TALIBAN CAMPS..."

More weak weather vanes soon, on this same Airhead Jazeera network.

Dateline, North Africa:

"Mutterings of a quagmire from his own party today following severe American losses in initial forays with hardened German units have led some to speculate that charges of impeachment may soon be brought against President Roosevelt.

'Hitler did not bomb us, Japan bombed us, so why are we at war with Germany?' shouted Senator Hart Shanks (D, NY). 'Bring the boys home, now!'

Meanwhile, college campuses in the Midwest and feeling their first taste of live radio feeds to both of the left coasts demanded FDR re-instate Marxist social reforms, as the troops slogged through Tunisia. 'We are wasting billions on this illegal war, caused by a duped Congress and a 3-term dictator hell bent on getting all social services removed for the sake of world freedom. Ludicrous!' exclaimed Ben DeNova of Students For A Detonated Society.

Congress seemed inclined to fence-sit, awaiting the outcome of the next major battle results before deciding which side to join in this escalating political street fight. 'I'd like to think the President knew what he was getting us into after Pearl, but we've been at war for almost 2 years and we still haven't reached Europe or Japan to any degree. I'm beginning to think Mr. Roosevelt has been mislead by his advisers, or mislead us deliberately, simply to get public minds off his Depression numbers.'

Asked to comment, White House spokeschick Fawn Doo stated that the 'President has heard these same complaints since before the war was initiated by Japan and Germany, never mind Churchill's missed dire warnings from a full decade earlier, and we think that once the Japanese interment camps in California hit full capacity the tide will begin to swing our way, at least in the Congressional districts where our paid voters have been apt to accept anything as a unionized favor in the past. In the mean time he's off to Canada's beautiful Campobello Island once again to do whatever he do do.'

More on this same network, after this word from Tokyo Rose."

Wow. I've never seen anyone type, or even think, so fast.....

I think the more QH is on the losing side of an argument the more cut and past childishness it resorts to. A couple of the early post made me chuckle but in the last half of the thread QH has behaved like a 2yrold throwing a tantrum

Jack

Speaking of tantrums...

http://www.sacbee.com/341/v-print/story/456858.html

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=F119DEBC-3048-5C12-008B73CC05E770EC

Man you libs IS funny!

How IS that impeachment thing going?

Or your cut & run retreat for Bin Laden planning?

The S-CHIP for $80,000 households (though most not under 29,000 square feet)?

Any better than Booboo Boxer's tinder control in Cali?

If burning away fuzzy animules and suburban homes from pure eco-loon neglect was a war crime, she'd be on trial at The Hague right now.

That you lefty dolts fail to see the folly of your ways, electing these NUTS to office, over & over, IS indeed your legacy -- and your shame.

Oh well.

HILLARY HAPPENS.

BTW: When do we bring our troops home from NOLA and Philadelphia? Those people really don't want us there anyway, do they? Those are simply civil war zones, and we really have no business forcing freedom down their throats. I say we just let the urban thug types fight it out, until one IS the clear winner, that we can support in a clearly sycophantic fashion not unlike Carter with Arafat, or Clinton with the Hutus, or Waters with the Crips. I'm just following lib loon logix here.

2008.

The year John Murtha will have FDR and JFK exhumed and tried for war crimes.

Can't wait for the backhoe action on CNN and PBS.

"...The POW I mentioned who turned down a chance at revenge because, "Americans don't do that," could not say that today..."

You blathering New School pinheads really believe that some incidents of "intolerance" began with Iraq and Vietnam?

Have you ever read ANY history of the AMERICAN CIVIL WAR, for starters?

WORLD WAR II perhaps? KOREA maybe?

Your blanket statements, accusing today's armed forces of massive atrocities, is no more convincing than your peers bogus attacks on our troops from the comfy confines of Congress during Vietnam -- Kerry's crazy Summer Slacker "vet" brigades, as one shining example of the limp legs of your floundering lefty logic -- nor any finer than your total lack of reference to all the things that have been PREVENTED by our entry into Iraq (one more time): No oil fields on fire, no majority mass exodus of refugees (other than the wimp academic class), no regional war, no diverted waterways (the marshlands have been RESTORED in south and eastern Iraq, as a matter of fact), no children lacking basic medical care (if not basic Al Queda In Media care), no genocide (sorry, Klein can't always have his way with the fiction), and yes no WMD's (glad we checked, personally) unless you include all the loose bomb parts and sarin canisters and mortar stockpiles and mass grave sites that our troops have uncovered. Never mind what went into Syria that the IAF just obliterated.

Mind you, the UN and State's foreign service has been zero help.

But they were never really for freeing the slaves and protecting the free to begin with, were they?

The day we turn Soggy Bottoms and Rock Creek Park into gratis condo units for our retired combat soldiers and Marines will be a great day indeed.

We supported war crimes charges against the Nazi's and Empire's MASS MURDERS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. Not exactly waterboarding damage.

Yukio Asano was a Japanese officer sentenced to 15 years in prison for hitting prisoners as well as waterboarding them. Both of these were viewed as "war crimes" at the time and are now supported by you and the Administration. Will you and the administration issue a pardon and an apology to Yukio Asano for this conviction?

http://williamrussellforcongress.com/

Make it so.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/pelosi-finesses-tax-message-2007-10-30.html

Whoops!

Another WHOOPS from the loon left!

What a shocker.

no majority mass exodus of refugees (other than the wimp academic class)

There have been over 2.2 million refugees leaving Iraq. You don't consider that a mass exodus?

unless you include all the loose bomb parts and sarin canisters and mortar stockpiles

The ones that under UN lock and key? the ones that we failed to secure during the initial invasion and were looted afterwards?

Never mind what went into Syria that the IAF just obliterated.

What proof do you have of that? Also, are you suggesting President Bush allowed WMDs to moved out of Iraq and given to terrorists?

Also QH, you never answered my other question. Should your local police force be allowed to waterboard prisoners? Would you want your local police force to have that option?

"...Yukio Asano was a Japanese officer sentenced to 15 years in prison for hitting prisoners as well as waterboarding them..."

Any other charges, perhaps, or details?

Take your time.

You have 14 months until President McCain IS sworn in.

"Should your local police force be allowed to waterboard prisoners?"

I'd have to defer to Ted SCUBA Kennedy on any use of water torture, sorry.

Any other charges, perhaps, or details?

From the Case Synopses from the Judge Advocate's reviews

Charge: Violation of the Laws and Customs of War: 1. Did willfully and unlawfully mistreat and torture PWs. 2. Did unlawfully take and convert to his own use Red Cross packages and supplies intended for PWs.

Specifications:beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; water torture; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward

Verdict: 15 years CHL

"Should your local police force be allowed to waterboard prisoners?"

I'd have to defer to Ted SCUBA Kennedy on any use of water torture, sorry.

So... are you now saying that waterboarding is "water torture"? Or are you too afraid to answer my question?

"...are you suggesting President Bush allowed WMDs to moved out of Iraq and given to terrorists?"

You admit then that Syria is indeed a terrorist state, a state sponsor of terrorism, and part of the Axis of Evil?

Good progress then today.

Well worth the crew's time and effort, here at QH HQ.

We are most pleased.

And thanks again to the IDF and our other valid allies, for your ongoing support of freedom without failure.

"...are you now saying that waterboarding is "water torture"?"

Magic 8 Ball says Uncertain.

No doubt driving around with Teddy Kennedy, or any Kennedy behind the wheel (ground or air), would be torture.

BTW, did they ever finish those underwater landing lights off Cape Cod?

I was thinking the Big Dig unions may have had that on their radar.

After they repair their other fine work.

And get those ugly wind mills out of sight.

You admit then that Syria is indeed a terrorist state, a state sponsor of terrorism, and part of the Axis of Evil?

When I have I ever said that Syria has no connections to some Terrorist organizations? Can you provide a citation for that?

Now, are you also admitting that President Bush allowed WMDs to be given to terrorists?

"...are you now saying that waterboarding is "water torture"?"

Magic 8 Ball says Uncertain

Luck for us, the International Military Tribunal for the Far East has already made that decision for us. But you are welcome to try and overturn it.

Internet broadcasters We Hit & Run (http://wehitandrun.info) used waterboarding as a political satire and on-air stunt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muPliLpTSb8

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