October 30, 2007 9:08
Liveblogging: The Fracas in Philly
9:00 PM I think that publicity still of Brian Williams was taken when he was twelve.
9:02 PM And Bri-Bri, right in with the "tell us how Hillary will eat our babies."
9:03 PM Obama's first canned joke -- something about a guy named "Rocko"? -- falls as flat as his smooth washboard stomach.
9:04 PM Obama could not attack if he were surrounded by stinging bees. HRC brushes him off with nary a misconceived metaphor to stand in her way: "Waving sabers"? I'm glad you're so hawkish on foreign policy because you have no idea how to handle a sword!
[hotel wi-fi a little hinky. Will continue as I can.]
9:09 PM No one can lay a glove on her. I should probably stop blogging now. Or, you know, for the rest of the cycle.
9:11 PM Cute old man talking about Iran! Is he related to Hillary?
9:16 PM Not only is Obama not taking the bait to attack Hillary but I think he may endorse her by the end of the night.
9:17 PM Also, Hillary is the only one running against George Bush. Everyone else is has mentioned her more than any Republican. I love that she is into "vigorous diplomacy." Bill feels the same way. Carrots and sticks! That's what Bill said!
9:19 PM Edwards mentions "neo-cons"! Drink!
9:20 PM Richardson: Not only would I negotiate with Iran without preconditions, but I would also wear a burka.
9:22 PM You can drink when they say "saber waving" OR "saber rattling."
9:24 PM Hillary has "pledged that I will take all the steps I can to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon." She actually got a laugh for that, but, understood: promising to keep them from developing a nuclear weapon sort of attributes to her the kind of wiccan powers only Bob Tyrell and John Podhoretz think she has.
9:26 PM Biden, on the other hand, is perfectly ready to pledge pretty much anything.
9:30 PM When Bill Richardson talks about his successes in international negotiating, he should not use the specific numbers of those he got released.
9:31 PM Is Kucinich really really talking about nuclear power? I think I see Hillary yawning.
9:32 PM True fact: Originally, before she was going to say she does "not oppose the brave men and women fighting" in Iraq, Hillary was going to say, "I hate those damn kids. Screw 'em."
9:33 PM Oh, she just talked about her friends, "Bill and Joe and Chris." Leaving anyone out, there, Hillary?
9:35 PM Shorter John Edwards: I would like to remind you that Hillary is not actually president yet.
9:36 PM If you could combine Edwards's attacks with Obama's positions... well, you'd have Hillary Clinton. But Edwards is at least taking jabs.
9:39 PM Writes a Republican pal: "I'd trust her with the country."
9:43 PM Wow, talk about running for the general, Hillary responds to a Rudy critique with, "They obviously think I am communicating effectively about what I will do as president." Also, she's totally talking for like, a half hour at a time. And, content-wise: She manages to dismiss the entire "experience" question by saying that she doesn't have the same experience as the current administration. It's true, by some measures, she has less! (And by some measures, more: the whole "experience" yard stick is kind of a joke.)
9:45 PM The RNC has been emailing Tim. (See: Question about opening the Clinton archives.)
9:47 PM Oooooh, BHO mentions "bundling"! Winkle Paw! Drink!
9:49 PM John Edwards believes in the Tooth Fairy. And here I was worried about creationist Huckabee.
9:52 PM Okay, even I am now kind of tired of BHO bringing up his stand against the war. Oh, and Richard doesn't like personal attacks! Thanks Secretary of State Richardson! Oh, you wanted veep? Sorry, that will go to someone who didn't even try to run against her.
9:56 PM There is another hour to go.
9:57 PM SwampDad (just so you know it's not genetic):
I so much like Edwards. And now Richardson. These guys are good.
But:
I am switching to The Unit at 9pm.
9:58 PM "Congressman Kucinich, why are you smiling?" "Because I am totally high."
10:06 PM I love Biden for calling Rudy out on his complete lack of foreign policy experience. LOVE IT. Something 9/11 noun verb something. Whatever. Nice.
10:07 PM I guess this is a segment on Social Security. Time for BHO to shine! If I can stay awake, I will totally write about it.
10:09 PM Obama is totally a Muslim. Brian Williams just told me so. Also, a John McCain mention, in his only appearance among Democrats until he joins the Hillary administration.
10:12 PM Someone's still reading!
I guess I missed The Unit, have to catch it on iTunes later.So I am going to stay with you.
10:14 PM Dad says more (about Social Security):
[Obama mentioned the] "actuarial gap''. Actually those who hate soc sec make a big deal of this. But as Milton Friedman says in his book, slight adjustments will fix it - he read the actuarial report. Congress did that kind of fix when they raised my retirement age by 10 months.The real big problem with SS is medicare, not the cash benefit program.
I will forward this to Atrios.
10:17 PM "Rattling sabers" is the new black!
10:19 PM This is the second time that Obama has mentioned he once said something that automakers found disconcerting. I wish he had more examples.
10:22 PM Chris Dodd is about to do a rain dance.
10:24 PM I believe that John Edwards just advocated private donations over government assistance for disaster relief. Uhm, wow. But there should also be unlimited federal assistance to victims of natural disasters. He's so making a little bit of sense right now!
10:28 PM Alternative minimum income tax. Talk amongst yourselves.
10:30 PM "Congressman Kucinich, I want to mention the issue of hedge funds." "Tim, have you ever really looked at your hand?"
10:33 PM Seriously, if this were the first debate, Edwards would be the choice as the anti-Hillary. Name checks: Halliburton, Wal-Mart, lobbyists, Blackwater, insert name of another bad guy here.
10:36 PM Bri-Bri saying "Time...time...time... time... time..." is going to be my new ringtone.
10:38 PM Okay, seriously: Lightning round? What does that tell us about a candidate? The ability to answer questions in under 30 seconds is helpful for contestants on game shows, but kind of disastrous among, you know, adults.
10:43 PM A friend suggests a question appropriate to the lightning round: "Ginger or Mary Ann?"
10:45 PM I'm still pissed about the CONCEPT of the lightning round. But apparently DOCTORS have asked Bri Bri to ask something. BUT WITHIN 30 SECONDS! BZZZZT! Too long! Brian Williams has been eliminated.
10:51 PM Barack: "I didn't realize it was a lightning round." Ha ha! The whole thing is a lightning round! Seriously, tho: If only the whole campaign was a lightning round, Barack, if only.
10:52 PM Seriously, the beep-beep when they go over? Is this a game show on an election? Wait, don't answer that...
10:53 PM I've been told that the official nickname is not "Bri Bri" but "BriWi." My apologies.
10:53 PM FIRST MISTAKE OF THE NIGHT FOR HILLARY, first mistake of perhaps the entire campaign: Advocating DLs for illegal immigrants. She does! Or not. Something. For a second she forgot she's already President.
10:56 PM OMG they are ganging up on HRC over illegal aliens driving. SPEAKING OF! Kucinich saw a UFO. BREAKING! And, "space." I thought that was Lou Dobbs' thing.
10:59 PM Hillary will cure cancer.
11:00 PM Apparently Christmas is coming.
11:01 PM Why isn't this over?
11:02 PM Obama gets a final jab in... at Mitt Romney.
Nanu-nanu.
About Swampland
Ana Marie Cox is the founding editor of Wonkette and the author of the novel Dog Days. Read more
Joe Klein is TIME's political columnist and author of six books, most recently Politics Lost. Read more
Karen Tumulty is TIME's National Political Correspondent and has also covered the White House and Congress. Read more
Jay Carney is TIME's Washington bureau chief. He has covered the Clinton and Bush 43 White Houses as well as Congress. Read more
Jay Newton-Small has covered the Bush 43 White House and Congress since the DeLay era. Read more
Michael Scherer is a TIME Washington bureau correspondent covering the 2008 presidential campaign. Read more
Mike Murphy is a GOP consultant and was a senior strategist for John McCain's 2000 presidential campaign. Read more
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Reader Comments (39)
I can't get the video to play at MSNBC.com...oh, well.
Posted by THEO | October 30, 2007 9:22 PM
I don't know, I think Obama got a slight hit in with the "politics of fear" stuff. And Edwards is throwing punches, but no one seems to care for some reason. His comments about learning how the Bush Administration operates and not repeating mistakes were sweet.
Posted by slcathena | October 30, 2007 9:35 PM
Neither can I, which really irritates me, because Comcast doesn't have the channel on their crap basic cable! X_X
Thanks Ana for your liveblogging, but don't overdo it with sarcasm for those of us who are unable to see the real thing! ;)
Posted by Sylvo | October 30, 2007 9:36 PM
next time, make sure you get out of hillary's pocket before you do this. you may as well be watching a different debate than me. zzzzzz
Posted by Dave | October 30, 2007 9:41 PM
Hillary has bigger balls than anyone on that stage and that's why when she's the nominee she's going to tear whoever the Republican candidate is and stand up to the GOP slime machine. (Of course, she doesn't have as big boobs at Tim Russert.)
Posted by jbk
|
October 30, 2007 9:43 PM
Additional question, Ana, the way I see this is as follows:
Edwards and Obama are drawing distinctions and taking hits, it would appear her strategy for dealing with the attack that she doesn't answer questions is to...not engage in answering the attacks.
Huh?
The question is, will the media that has so far let her get away with this strategy with comments like "Edwards is throwing punches at Clinton, but they miss, they are all glancing blows..." (paraphrased from the MSM, but you know what I mean...)
Posted by slcathena | October 30, 2007 9:50 PM
While You Were Out
For: Bill Richardson
From: New Mexico
Re: Please stop. Domenici's senate seat is open and you could totally win that.
Please call.
Posted by Mike M. | October 30, 2007 9:56 PM
i still don't understand how anyone can believe anything that comes out of her mouth. i listen to her and i hear a pandering, question dodging, liar who is claiming to want change but shows no passion for new ideas only passion for getting elected.
Posted by Dave | October 30, 2007 9:59 PM
Edwards is just toxic and shrill. I find it hard to listen to him.
Posted by Intrepyd | October 30, 2007 10:04 PM
That Obama/Osama question is laughably shallow and ridiculous. Dude. MSNBC should be embarassed.
Posted by slcathena | October 30, 2007 10:12 PM
Also never ran a business, state, or city:
Gerald Ford
Richard Nixon
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Bob Dole
Fred Thompson
John McCain
etc., etc.
Posted by THEO | October 30, 2007 10:15 PM
If Hillary runs to the middle any faster she'll be inducted into the NBA hall of fame before midnight.
Posted by QUESTION HILLARY tm
|
October 30, 2007 10:51 PM
"I so much like Edwards. And now Richardson. These guys are good."
Yes, all the loudest sycophants for 3rd world nukes feel the same way.
On to loverly Tehrannosaurus with the kids and the Saab!
Posted by QUESTION HILLARY tm
|
October 30, 2007 10:53 PM
Agree that the lighting round is stupid and does'nt work. Poor Obama; MSNBC sucks.
Posted by Roving Eye
|
October 30, 2007 10:53 PM
"I love that she is into "vigorous diplomacy." Bill feels the same way."
So does Monica.
When Chlesea gets big, maybe Mo gets the empty room?
Posted by QUESTION HILLARY tm
|
October 30, 2007 10:55 PM
Russert is an idiot. Whats with the Space qustions?
Posted by Roving Eye
|
October 30, 2007 10:59 PM
Pat Moynihan's ghost was going to be there, but he was busy reading Hipplery's jazzy 401k fed privatization plan (to replace Granny's SSI checks).
Maybe he'll show up for the halftime bands from Code Pinko and Al Queda USA, er, DNC HQ.
Posted by QUESTION HILLARY tm
|
October 30, 2007 10:59 PM
obama rocked the idiotic life on other planets question. perfect answer!
Posted by Dave | October 30, 2007 11:00 PM
Bidden is the best.
Posted by Roving Eye
|
October 30, 2007 11:02 PM
And old, fat, unlevitated to the extreme Abbie Hoffman's ghost just peed on Kookooseeniche's PF Flyers.
Kookoo is happy just for the attention.
Though old, fat Abbie's carrying a non-union pitchfork seems a bit strange.
Posted by QUESTION HILLARY tm
|
October 30, 2007 11:03 PM
Our maid Janga wants to know when she can file for her driver's license and fake tax refund.
I told her to pipe down and bring me another Molson with some of those little mini pretzels and a fresh lobster bib.
Posted by QUESTION HILLARY tm
|
October 30, 2007 11:06 PM
Shorter John Edwards: I would like to remind you that Hillary is not actually president yet.
Ana please forward this memo to the DC media, oh, and the Obama campaign.
Posted by AJ | October 30, 2007 11:07 PM
Julio gets a free FastPass for the Jersey Turnpike too?
Good news, legally legal Americans.
The doomsday clock to another Clixon takeover just ran out of hemp oil power, with far far yet to go.
WELCOME PRESIDENT MCCAIN & VEEP RUDY.
Posted by QUESTION HILLARY tm
|
October 30, 2007 11:13 PM
"...Edwards, meanwhile, felt at least one jab. Kucinich, alluding to Edwards' past financial dealings, said: "When people get money from New York hedge funds and then they attack another person for getting money from Washington interest groups, you know what? They're both right..."
WANKETTE WANTS TO CRY NOW, YOU DENNIS THE MENACE.
Posted by QUESTION HILLARY tm
|
October 30, 2007 11:16 PM
A little snark is fun, but that was about 90% snark. Ana, you are smart and interesting! Please, more substance!
Posted by Thinkerton | October 30, 2007 11:56 PM
What I took from this is that MSNBC should be ashamed of themselves...UFOs? Then Tweety kept asking the UFO question in the post game. Someone might want to explain to the closeted one that his beloved Reagan saw one as well. Just stupid.
I think Hillary got touched up a little, by Edwards mostly but by Obama a little too and I'm liking Dodd more and more, it's just too bad he's so charismatically challenged. I'm hoping this is the beginning of the end for her, I really don't want this to be another vote for the lesser of 2 evils again.
Now for some levity:
"State Rep. Richard Curtis, R-La Center, admitted to having sex with a man he met at an adult video store in Spokane last week, according to a police report released Tuesday afternoon.
The police report contains an account of how Curtis allegedly donned women’s clothing, red stockings and a black sequined lingerie top before engaging in a sex act at the store. He continued to wear them throughout the night under his clothing."
"During his visit to the video store Curtis was observed wearing women's lingerie while receiving oral sex from an unidentified man in one of the movie viewing booths inside the store."
kxly.com/news/?sect_rank=1§ion_id=559&story_id=15425
www.columbian.com/news/localNews/2007/10/10302007_Police-report-sheds-new-light-on-Curtis-encounter.cfm
Posted by Titus Pullo | October 31, 2007 12:03 AM
Wonkette probably doesn't understand this, stuck as she is in the mindset of those who love having their nannies being able to drive, but even most *New Yorkers* oppose giving DLs to IAs.
So, if Hill is soft on this issue, that's a big mistake.
[beginning to laugh] Hopefully Time can do a real grown-up report on this issue, covering it from all sides and looking into what Spitzer wanted and who he was trying to help. You know, following the money and all. [who am I kidding? Maybe Wonkette could fly out to Malibu and cover Britney.]
Posted by NoMoreBlatherDotCom
|
October 31, 2007 12:04 AM
Er, this driver's license mishegoss, hasn't UTAH - effen UTAH - already done the same thing that Spitzer is proposing? Why is it now suddenly an issue? Oh, wait...never mind. I forgot the Sally Quinn rules. If a Democrat, especially Hillary is involved, it must be Armageddon.
Posted by jbk
|
October 31, 2007 12:11 AM
Uh, where was Gravel? Not a real debate if it didn't include all the candidates.
Posted by Mike M. | October 31, 2007 12:12 AM
Ana, were you drunk for this? :) Keep it up!!
Posted by Brian A. Bucher | October 31, 2007 12:30 AM
Historically, it's nearly impossible to be the "front-runner" this early and get the nomination. Keep in mind that many people don't even have a land-line anymore. And the average voter is less willing to answer polls every year, as the MSM is less and less involved on an issues level every year, and that leads people who care about the issues (and are therefore likely to be the real swing voters) away from answering stupid questions. Mostly because they can be pretty much 100% certain that their answers will only ever get used in misleading ways. Meaning, we don't actually know who the front-runner is.
This whole "front-runner" means nominee blahblah is stupid. It would be less (though still) stupid to say instead, HRC can't possibly win the nomination, because she was the front-runner too early. You have to "catch fire" to win the nomination; still smoldering isn't quite good enough.
Totally anecdotal, but a year ago most of the people (Democrats) I personally asked were mostly planning to vote for HRC, with a few for Edwards. Now, none of those people are telling me HRC. They're telling me mostly BHO, with the Edwards people saying Edwards, but hedging for a possible switch to BHO. Down here in off-the-radar, no landline 30-something land, BHO is on fire, and HRC isn't even still smoldering. I don't think anybody else has the charisma needed for catching fire except Edwards. So I'd say the two of them are the only ones with a chance.
Posted by RubyPanther | October 31, 2007 4:47 AM
Surprised by the desperation of Edwards - a nasty trial lawyer in action. Obama was up and down. I wondered: if he were a Senator in Washington how would he have voted in 2002 given the atmosphere and Timmeh's gentle handling of Cheney. (Russo the Enabler in Chief). On the licence issue: this is LouDMOUTH Dobbs great issue on which his votes recall Pravda's days in Russia : he finds 90% for everything.
Other states already provide driver's licences for illegals. It has happened. Why is it an issue. I heard Spitzer on CNN: he appears to have backed off the type of licence than can be used as an indetification to one that in fact identifies illegals.And the Homeland Security gang support his modified proposal. It is a gotcha question and so typical of Timmeh: as were the one's the Clinton Papers and Social Security. Diggers for Dirt: ther's hope for you yet.
I just found Edwards disappointing: and here I was pushing for him, then Obama. Dodd anyone?
Posted by bp | October 31, 2007 7:36 AM
That sounded as uninteresting as it did uninforming. So it showed Obama once again is not ready for prime time because he threw Hillary softballs all night, Hillary turned SHrillary by the end, and Edwards sounded like a bumbling idiot talking about natural disastors. So all in all, just what I expected.
I think this was one of my favorites of the night which was Clinton's trademark flip flop on the New York mayor's proposal of illegals getting licenses.
"what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is fill the vacuum left by the failure of this administration to bring about comprehensive immigration reform"
Ok that was as cryptic as it was retarded. Would someone PLEASE tell the democrats that George Bush is not running for President again. PLEASE! Everyone knows what happened and pointing out mistakes dosen't make one right or qualified for anything. However, Clinton has made a career of it.
Mrs. Clinton came back to say that she didn’t say it should be done, but that she recognized what the governor was trying to do. She and Mr. Dodd got into a spat about what she had said. She dismissed it as a “gotcha” question.
Yet another demonstration of flip flopping right in front of the camera and being called on it and then she says, as she does everytime she gets caught, its a "gotcha" question. It isn't a "gotcha" Mrs Clinton, you just need to pick a side on an issue and not try to have them all.
AT the very least this showed some balls by Edwards
Mr Edwards said, “Unless I missed something, Senator Clinton said two different things in the course of about two minutes just a few minutes ago.”
I hate it when Clinton gets away with that stuff so I am glad she is finally getting called out.
It was kind of sickening to see Dodd though, seemingly groveling for the Vice Presidential on national tv by saying those who were calling out Clinton on what she said and calling it "personal attacks". What a weasel. She is a big girl. She is going to have to be able to take the hits with out brushing of questions with the typical that's a "gotcha" question or "I don't do hypothetical" replies.
I found all their statements on not letting Iran have nuclear weapons disturbing, and I don't think they assurded anyone. I think that is going to be a problem for them. India and Pakistan got nuclear weapons under Clinton's watch and I don't think we can afford Iran and Syria to get them now. We need a promises it won't happen, not I will do what I can.
Posted by Judgement | October 31, 2007 10:22 AM
Uh, Thinkerton? You realize that live blogging is, you know, live? She's not going to write an exhaustive treatise between each question.
Posted by KleinShield | October 31, 2007 2:43 PM
Uh, Thinkerton? You realize that live blogging is, you know, live?
Uh, yeah. I've read many many live blogs, and they usually have more substance. I'm not asking for a treatise, I'm asking for more substantial comments. There's a difference between typing something like, "HRC didn't actually answer that question," and, "who picked that suit out for her?" Both comments take about the same amount of time to type, but I find the former more helpful.
I enjoy the loose tone of a good live blog, but wall-to-wall snark doesn't do much for me. Just a personal preference.
Posted by Thinkerton | October 31, 2007 3:13 PM
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Posted by libya | July 23, 2008 12:13 PM
منتديات دليل مواقع منتدى قريش منتدى صور الكون شبكة اسلاميه العاب مركز تحميل تحميل صور
اداره مواضيع المميزه تعارف تبادل نصي تبادل روابط نصيه اهدائات ترحيب تعارف خدمة الاعضاء الرئيسيه مواضيع اسلاميه مواضيع عامه نقاش حوار السياحه السفر الاخباريه جريمه اثاره الرياضه سيارات دراجات ناريه الاسره المجتمع شباب العربي ابناء ادم عالم حواء بنات حواء عالم الطفل الطفل الطب الصحه مطبخ الزواج الحياه الزوجيه ديكور اثاث منزلي اشغال يدويه الابداعات الشعريه الابداعات الادبيه همس القوافي شعر عذب الكلام خواطر قصص روايات ترفيهيه العاب مسابقات نكت ضحك فرفشه افلام انمي افلام كرتون المكتبه الصوتيه المكتبه السمعيه الابداع التصوير الفوتغرافي فوتشوب فلاش سويتش صور صور ورده تصاميم الاعضاء ابداعات الاعضاء تقنيه الالكترونيه الاتصالات كمبيوتر برامج كمبيوتر برامج ماسنجر ماسنجر هوتميل ماسنجر ياهو جوال موبايل برامج جوال ارشيف مواضيع مكرره مواضيع محذوفه منتدى شات دليل دليل منتدى منتديات شات دردشه صور
Posted by shooooq | September 19, 2008 8:11 PM
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Posted by libya | September 22, 2008 8:28 PM