February 22, 2007 2:44
Netroots Turning on Obama?
Within the boundaries of the blogosphere (and according to Joe!), the Obama won yesterday's snowball fight -- he "refused to back down," while HRC's team apparently got caught playing a little fast and loose with titles (Geffen is not Obama's "campaign finance chair"). But yesterday's praise (some of it in comments here) for the Obama campaign's rapid response is souring as word spreads around the net that the architect of that rapid response, Robert Gibbs, comes with some baggage. He was the spokesman for "Americans for Jobs, Health Care and Progressive Values," the group behind an anti-Dean ad you might remember:
The ad slowly moved in on a Time Magazine cover featuring bin Laden, zooming in on a close-up of Osama's eyes, while saying that Howard Dean was an unqualified Democratic candidate because of his lack of military or foreign experience.
Clinton's case for Geffen's comments making Obama a hypocrite was pretty weak, but this strikes much closer to home and the Netroots are noticing. Matt Stoller states the obvious:
And does Gibbs still believe that a Presidential candidate with "no military or foreign policy experience" is "unqualified"? Then how Gibbs, is Barack Obama going compete with John McCain on foreign policy. Howard Dean was right on Iraq too, ya know.
and Kos follows up:
Politics is dirty business, indeed. And there's no doubt that Obama's rapid response has been stellar.But one can't help but get a little cynical hearing Obama talk about "changing the tone" and all that bullshit, while hiring a well-known smear-meister best known for his work trashing other Democrats.
This may turn out to be nothing, but more than any other front-runner, Obama needs the kind of energy the Netroots can summon. He's trying to build a movement, not just a campaign, and the Deaniacs would be an obvious model if not actual base. Having Gibbs on board might not be enough to alienate them entirely, but it suggests that there's still an opportunity for another candidate to become the web darling. (How to avoid meeting the same end as Dean but raising the same ridiculous sums of cash is another question.)
And, to head some commenters off at the pass: I promise I'll post at some GOP catfight next.
About Swampland
Ana Marie Cox is the founding editor of Wonkette and the author of the novel Dog Days. Read more
Joe Klein is TIME's political columnist and author of six books, most recently Politics Lost. Read more
Karen Tumulty is TIME's National Political Correspondent and has also covered the White House and Congress. Read more
Jay Carney is TIME's Washington bureau chief. He has covered the Clinton and Bush 43 White Houses as well as Congress. Read more
Jay Newton-Small has covered the Bush 43 White House and Congress since the DeLay era. Read more
Michael Scherer is a TIME Washington bureau correspondent covering the 2008 presidential campaign. Read more
Mike Murphy is a GOP consultant and was a senior strategist for John McCain's 2000 presidential campaign. Read more
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Reader Comments (27)
You want to know what people dislike about the MSM? This is a great example. With all the important things going on, what is the MSM focussed on? A petty squabble, which is probably 90% media hot air.
Posted by Franco | February 22, 2007 3:34 PM
Why does the MSM focus on "A petty squabble, which is probably 90% media hot air."?
Ana has to go with what she knows.
Posted by Paul, no not that one | February 22, 2007 3:42 PM
Paul, no not that one:
"Ana has to go with what she knows."
Buttsex?
Posted by Anonymous | February 22, 2007 3:45 PM
I think I've turned to the dark side:
Joe Trippi said, of the ad produced by Gibbs' group, that it was, "...the kind of fearmongering attack we've come to expect from Republicans..."
At least those tactics win elections.
I want to be offended, especially because I still love Howard Dean. I just can't get there. Gibbs has, if nothing else, been effective for Obama thus far. If he starts to screw up...maybe then we can string him up. Till then, though...
Posted by Bill | February 22, 2007 3:50 PM
Another Hairball attack. Somebody clean out the litter box and get back to real issues. What was it a week ago that two Bloggers for Edwards got death threats and lunatics like Donohue gained credibility by using 'Catholic' League and I'm sure filled their treasuries.
It's like the ANS judge said: Get the DNA tests, enough already.
Posted by linda | February 22, 2007 3:58 PM
Obama's schtick, running as a political Messiah will be his undoing.
It is not sustainable over a long campaign.
He will end up hiring dirty tricks consultants, getting in the gutter and fighting and looking like a typical politician, saying one thing doing another.
He will look like a hypocrite.
His campaign is all about style over substance. His argument is that he should be president because he will transform politics and usher in an era of civility.
This sounds good short term. Long term it can't be a platform for a presidential campaign.
Posted by DonB | February 22, 2007 4:09 PM
"And, to head some commenters off at the pass: I promise I'll post some GOP catfight next."
Good. Sounds lke AMC is getting trained and trying to at least avoid a Jay Carney-like whupping.
Posted by jbk | February 22, 2007 4:23 PM
Can someone start a spreadsheet to keep track of all the Swampland posts about Democratic squabbling vs. Republican squabbling between now and the general election? The betting line starts at 15-1, Democratic mentions.
This is how Bush was elected in 2000. Allow Giuliani to make general comments about "turrists", "evil doers", "lower taxes", and "family values"....while ripping the living sh#t out of the Democratic nominee.
Posted by Jake Gittes | February 22, 2007 4:27 PM
"but it suggests that there's still an opportunity for another candidate to become the web darling"
John Edwards has won both of the DailyKos Strawpolls in 2007, which have had over 20k votes.
Posted by Jake Gittes | February 22, 2007 4:31 PM
now, kids, be nice to ana, she linked to me in this story.
ana, i take back most of what i ever said to you!
but, to be precise, i am not one of those in blogtopia (and yes, i coined that phrase) who is so gung-ho in favor of barak "to the future" obama to start with.
true enough, i did say that obama "refused to back down" in this dust up, and i did portray the hillary camp more as whiners than the obama camp. but i was just reporting things as i saw them in this specific instance. and in this specific instance i think obama came out looking more like the adult.
that does not mean, however, i endorse obama over hillary (or versa visa). i don't like obama's pandering to religiosity so much, and i don't really even know where he stands on most issues.
in fact, that he is considered a "superstar" by the mmm (multi-millionaire media) is enough to make me suspicious.
but, feel free to link to me anytime, and you are actually doing a better job than jay "hey rube" carney with actual links and cites to back up your positions.
Posted by skippy | February 22, 2007 5:43 PM
Okay, let's see if I've got this story straight.
"Do you know what Maureen told me? She said that Hillary was upset because she thought that David liked her but then she found out that he liked Barack better so now she's mad at Barack. Then she started telling everyone how she never really liked David anyway..."
Are we back in junior high?
Posted by Franco | February 22, 2007 5:56 PM
I read MyDD and Kos every day and I like a lot of what I read there --- but I can't imagine more quick to the trigger thin-skinned people than the bloggers mentioned. The majority of Obama's netroots support actually tends to come from a newer Facebook type of crowd.
I want Howard Dean to do something crazy like drop out of the DNC to chair Hillary's campaign so the netroots eat themselves.
Posted by Gwen | February 22, 2007 6:20 PM
Does anyone have any thoughts on how Obama's Hollywood connections could affect the view of him out in the so-called Heartland? I wonder if there's any possibility of Geffen's remarks having an unintended negative effect on voters who don't like Hollywood types messing in politics. Just a thought.
Posted by Bemused | February 22, 2007 6:28 PM
This was apparently a fight over money bottom line. The Queen thinks that if you give her money, she is entitled to all your money. It is an act of disloyalty to give money to anyone else. Plus, she wants all the money, not just most of it. As part of America's other royal family she is entitled to it after all. Just like she is entitled to the job. Admitting mistakes is something the common people, the little people, do.
Luckily, Clinton has surrounded herself with dick swinging, southern hillbillies, who just can't keep their dick in their pants. Trying to blame Obama for something Geffen said, when it is really about money, is an example her hillbillies primarily use their dicks to think.
By the way there is no Netroots. It's just people with computers, who can think for themselves.
Posted by Unapologetic Liberal | February 22, 2007 6:42 PM
Ooookaaay, now. I'm new to these finer points of order for the netroots rules of politiking....lets see if I have gotten these rules right?
a] candidate is to be held responsible for whatever supporters may say
b] candidate is to be held responsible for any past history of any staff person hired
c] candidate is to be held to negative account for receiving money from any supporters who are critical of other candidates
d] candidate is to be held to negative [suspicion-alert!] account for receiving free press coverage
So, ahem, any candidate who is worthy of netroots support must only attract mature non-judgmental supporters, must only hire staff with perfect non-controversial pasts, must not take money from persons who speak against other candidates, and [bizarrely in light of rule #c] must also never attract free press coverage.
For what its worth, I am a Deaniac AND an Obama fan. Both of these guys have what it takes to evoke the deepest values and common sense and share that with whomever really listens to them. And that common sense includes the maturity to realize we live in and grapple with an imperfect world, not the 'idealized' world inhabited by fools.
Posted by Donna | February 22, 2007 6:42 PM
"I promise I'll post at some GOP catfight next."
How about the cat fight going on between McCain and Bush? For example, who kept the idiot Rumsfield on for 4 years. Why has he done nothing about the environment? Is McCain getting even for the black child and the Manchurian Candidate story. Did McCain just suck up to Bush to get his money men on side? Does he phone Bush at night to apologize for ripping him all day?
That sort of thing.
Posted by Unapologetic Liberal | February 22, 2007 7:11 PM
Donna thank you
I too believe this stuff about being disapponted by Obama because of Geffen's comments is full of crap.
If he doesn't respond, he's avoiding the issue
If he says I'm not going to muzzle a supporter making a personal statement, he's a hypocrite.
As I pointed out in another post. SC Sen Ford made a statement that Obama couldn't be elected because White voters were rascists (that was the take home message). Geffen stated a personal opinion about the Clintons.
HRC campaign manager goes on Chris Mathews to continue the acttack. To my knowledge, Obama is moving on to other issues.
After GW, I'm open to any Democratic Party candidate. This episode leans me towards Obama.
Wolfson stated that John Edwards' request for Hillary to clarify her Iraq war vote was a negative political maneuver. That's bizarre.
Posted by rmrd0000 | February 22, 2007 7:18 PM
OK I gotta be the outsider here, I just can't muster up the enthusiasm to be interested.
There has got to be something more substantial in the realm of electoral politics to talk about than this, doesn't there? Have either HRC or Obama doen anything worth talking about in say the last week or so?
As a reluctant Dem this time around I am about to end my own life rather than face the prospect of voting for either of these two. But alas, GW has forced me into the belief that the GOP has to be immediately disbanded, it's leaders banished and it's name never spoken of again, so we can pretend the damage done by his administration happened to some other country...
For the sake of the many of us that know we have to elect a democrat this time around, because the RNC is diseased beyond the hope of redemption, please let this go and find a story that makes one of these people look like a viable candidate.
Posted by DEMbyDEFAULT | February 22, 2007 8:33 PM
Oh get a grip Ana. You read two posts and come to the conclusion that the netroots will dump Obama?
Ana, you've officially become a member of the DC inner bubble. I thought you had a better understanding of what the blogosphere is all about but I guess I was wrong.
Posted by Jason | February 22, 2007 9:18 PM
I bet Obama wished Gibbs was there for him when he slipped and referred to his fellow Senator, Barara Boxer as a....cutie?
MMMMM, not exactly a good move to make a sexist comment like that, especially if you want to be Presdient.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/indexn/?blogid=14
Posted by Diane | February 23, 2007 11:27 AM
Linda, (responding to your thoughts on my tour of the head to head polls in an earlier thread)
I was working from the Real Clear Politics
averages of a basket of national polls (Marist, Qinnipiac, Rasmussen etc). As an average it makes a reasonable stab at washing out the biases of individual polls as well as
the effects of different sampling techniqiues and differnent definitions of "likely voter".
I think you interpreted me as being overly optimistic about the Dem's chances in the general. I'm not. In fact where I was saying that they need to avoid hubris. Particularly the sort of hubris that implies that it doesn't matter what we do to each other in the primary because the nominee will win the general election. I'm happy to stick with with my conclusions. Which are :
The Democratic base is staying fairly loyal regardless of which prospective nominee you ask
them about, but the GOP base is not.
Nevertheless, a moderate(ish) GOP nominee with security credentials would still have a real shot at holding the middle ground and winning the general election.
The GOP can blow their chances in the general election by nominating the wrong person.
The Dems will have a fighting chance in the general election by nominating any one of their front runners.
So, the biggest factor and highest priority for the GOP is to pick the right nominee. By contrast, the biggest factor and highest priority for the Dems is to position their nominee, whoever they are, to compete effectively for the middle ground in the general election. Importantly, this means that the Dems need to avoid delivering a nominee into the general election arena who is too damaged by the primary process to compete.
So, the sort of thing we've seen over the past few days, which makes all candidates come off as vicious, small and immature is exactly what the Dems don't need. Which is why I'm happy to pile on and say that both David Geffen and the HRC operatives who started all this have been both dumb and disloyal to their party.
Posted by Robert Beswick | February 23, 2007 9:19 PM
Obama is nothing like Howard Dean. He has CRITICIZED Dean, while failing to do much in his two years in the senate. He's all glitter, but no substance. By the way, Hillary Clinton SUCKS.
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