October 15, 2008 9:00

The Third Presidential Debate

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The third and final Presidential Debate was held on October 10th, and it started at 9:00 p.m. EST, John McCain and Barack Obama faced off for 90 minutes at Hofstra University in Long Island, New York. Bob Schieffer, CBS News Chief Washington Correspondent, was the moderator.

TIME's Michael Grunwald, Jim Poniewozik, and Karen Tumulty brought you live up-to-the-minute commentary on the debate.

Although the debates are over, you can still view TIME's ongoing and comprehensive coverage of Election '08. Also, your comments are always welcome, so please sign in and post accordingly.

All times listed below are Eastern Standard Time (EST).

10:39 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Tammy’s parting impression: Oooh, nice cold war with the wives. What was with the exuberant butt-grab between McCain and Schieffer, though?

10:37 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Wrapup:

There was one clear winner of this debate: Joe the Plumber.

There was no new ground broken. This seemed to me to be McCain’s strongest and most coherent performance in these debates, and he was doing a better job of articulating a big vision. However, I think what people are going to take away from it is—once again—the demeanor of the two candidates in the cutaway shots. Obama seemed cool and collected, while McCain’s grimaces were painful to watch.

10:34 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: In summary: obama was cooler and clearer; he didn't laugh at his own jokes, and he didn't look like his head was about to explode. But mostly he's just got a better hand to play. When historians look back at this election they're going to say: the republican president was wildly unpopular, so the republican lost. And that's how joe the plumber became president.

10:31 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: My wrapup: For those who complained the last debate was dull—which I guess was all of us—it provided more sparks. Did it answer what viewers wanted answered? There was acknowledgement at the beginning and the end of the fact that the economy is melting down... and then a long section in the middle that told us it apparently had to do with abortion, William Ayers and Joe the plumber. There were, though, strong differences not just of policy but, sharply, of temperament. America saw a mad guy and a calm guy. I'll be very curious to see how the candidates' reactions—especially in split screen—played at home. How pissed off do you want your President to bee, America?

10:31 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: @tj: I'm just sad that wisit isn't going to be around to design a pink men's locker room.

By the way: how about jeff lewis as moderator?

10:28 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Tammy protests: HEY! You guys didn't tell me I'd have to miss Project Runway AND Top Design! What if this is the night Ricky Schroeder's talentless, bitchy wife gets the boot?

10:27 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: What was that weird mccain snicker? Schlieffer is thinking: god, this guy looks old.

10:26 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: McCain seems to be under the impression that Sarah Palin has an autistic child.

10:25 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Hands up: who out there would like money thrown at them?

10:25 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: You've got to give mccain credit: taking on head start takes guts. Or lunacy.

10:23 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: The children are our future!

Oy vey.

10:22 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Joe the Plumber looks uncannily like McCain chief strategist Steve Schmidt.

10:21 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @KT: Here was my problem with "spreading the wealth" attack. It is shorthand that only signifies a bad thing to people who already agree with you. In itself, people don't hear "spreading the wealth" as a negative thing.

10:20 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Isn't "throwing the money at the problem" sort of like "spreading the wealth"? Guess not, when you're talking about schools.

10:20 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: I'll tell you one thing: joe the plumber is laying some pipe tonight. Tonight is definitely going to be sacred for mrs. Wurtzelfarfegnugen.

10:18 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Tammy, who used to be stationed in Bonn for the LA Times, notes: Wurzel means 'little sausage' in German.

10:18 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: I love the use of "sexuality" as a synonym for "sex.". But is it really sacred? I'd say it depends who you're having sexuality with.

10:17 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Split screen report: Obama has the gently bemused grin thing down--he thinks it';s so adorable that his opponent is wrong!--whereas John McCain looks like he sat on a tack in the split screen. Call it shallow, but people watch debates, they don't read them.

10:16 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @KT: Most famous political plumber since Watergate.

10:15 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Dial group report 2: Um, Sen. McCain, women don't like it when you put "health of the mother" in air quotes.

10:14 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Dial group report: men and women united in their opposition to unintended pregnancy.

10:14 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Obama is a baby killer!

Pretty soon I'm going to make jack drink.

10:13 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Here's a picture of Joe the Plumber.

10:12 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: I think the obvious choice for the supreme court is joe wurtzelschnitzel.

10:07 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: @JP: Oh, right, hair transplants. I forgot: McCain spends a lot of time with Senators.

10:06 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: From Tammy: Joe is going to need a nice, long, hot shower after this.

10:05 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @KT: Hair transplants?

10:04 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Did McCain just suggest that transplants are elective surgery?"

10:04 p.m - Jim Poniewozik: It sounds like McCain is defending Joe the Plumber's right to deny health coverage to his employees. Possibly a persuasive argument to Joe. To everybody else...

10:03 p.m - Karen Tumulty: TJ@MG: Guess again, Ignorant Youthful One: My future is secure! McCain just promised me FIVE THOUSAND AMERICAN DOLLARS! I'm so relieved.

10:03 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: @kt: yes. jack d. is kicking my ass...

10:01 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @MG: Too late. It's a porn site.

10:00 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Substance alert: McCain is flat-out lying about Obama's health care plan. It is not government-run health care, and looks nothing like the Canadian system.

10:00 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Excuse me: I need to go register www.joetheplumber.com

9:59 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @KT and MG: The focus group dial lines are about the only chance Americans have had to see upward graphs on the news in the past two weeks! Ba-DUM-bum!

9:59 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: McCain's references to Joe the Plumber are now drawing loud guffaws in the media center.

Meanwhile TJ@MG: Yes, and tossing hostages into those free-trade deals really worked out well for the Reagan Administration!

9:58 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: @MG: Lucky for you, your retirement is now tied to the price of Time Warner stock. Oh, wait...

9:58 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: @jp: it's worse on tv, isn't it? It's the guy who's talking calmly to the camera vs the guy who looks like he's going to jump through the screen and bludgeon somebody.

9:57 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Schieffer offers a false choice between expanding coverage and controlling costs. You can’t do one without the other. Just ask Mitt Romney.

9:56 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Tammy, aren't you one of those retirees? And we both know our washington post stock is sinking faster than mccain's poll numbers...

9:55 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: I don't know how many people are listening on the radio, but when I look down to my laptop to type, I'm hearing: the mad guy versus the calm guy.

9:53 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: When I think of colombia, I think of a country that's really working hard to stop the flow of drugs into the us. Don't you?

9:51 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Tammy muses: "I wonder which is hurting worse: The 'heartland of America,' or all the retirees who live in Arizona and are now watching their nest eggs disappear?"

9:49 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Warning: substance! The first new nuclear plant would not come on line until 2016 at the earliest. It won't do ANYTHING to reduce dependence on foreign oil in two terms.

Hi, jack!

9:48 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: The battle of the reaction shots is more interesting than the actual answers. Obama has the bemused chuckle down. McCain leans on the affronted eyebrow arch.

9:45 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Ayers, ACORN and autism. Good Lord. Also, "I'm so proud of her"?

9:45 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: She understands that autism is on the rise. Well, allrighty then.

They're talking about palin like she's going to be first lady.

9:44 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: The High Sheriff weighs in: "Schieffer? Pretty good imho."

9:43 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: TJ@MG: MG: "The smirk isn't bothering me as much as the blinking."

9:41 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @KT: "Personally, I feel it would be better if my opponent's running mate became president. Because it would mean that lying bastard sitting over there is dead!"

9:40 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Schieffer now asking each candidate to contemplate his own death. This has to be a debate first.

9:40 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: I don't mean to say my opponent is a terrorist...but...

9:39 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: From Ayers and ACORN to "I'm goingg to lower your taxes"--most awkward segue of the evening.

9:38 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Through the "character" section, Obama seems unflappable, McCain heated. Not sure which of the two plays better out there, but a noticable difference.

9:38 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Very bad sign: There are no fewer than three electricians currently working on the power strips at the table where I am sitting. We seem to have a major power outage going on in this part of the hall. No plumbing problems, though.

9:38 p.m - Michael Grunwald: Mccain is gritting his teeth so hard they're going to come out his chin.

9:36 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Waaah! Someone wore a mean t shirt!

People who come to my rallies are the most patriotic people in the world!

It's going to be painful watching mccain walk back his campaign after he loses.

9:34 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: First complaint about a T-shirt in a presidential debate?

9:33 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: McCain's got a point. Who among us has ever thrown a big party without someone yelling "Kill him!"

9:33 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: If mccain's head explodes, is the debate over?

9:31 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Obama has spent more money on negative TV ads than Garfield did!

9:28 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Still waiting for anyone to say anything to anyone's face.

9:27 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Lie! Obama did repudiate those wallace remarks.

Jack is getting a workout.

9:26 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: McCain campaign keeps passing out paper here. DEBATE FACT #5: MEET JOE THE PLUMBER. Turns out he spells it Wurzelbacher.

9:26 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Tim gunn should be moderating this debate.

9:25 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Mccain keeps making that weird smirk. It's like that jon lovitz line from 1988: I can't believe I. Losing to this guy!Mccain keeps making that weird smirk. It's like that jon lovitz line from 1988: I can't believe I. Losing to this guy!

9:25 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: I think Tammy just switched over to Project Runway. She asks: "Who do you think would make a better cocktail dress out of Ho-Ho wrappers, celery stalks and dog biscuits-- Obama or McCain?"

9:24 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: The slaw just arrived so nobody heard it.

9:23 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @MG: How did the Fox News joke go over?

9:23 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: The 42K lie!

Drink.

9:22 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: I'm angry too. And so is my pal jack daniels.

9:21 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Tammy: "Not the planetarium again! Where is the Uranus lobby on this relentless attacking of the solar system?"

9:21 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Good ol boys just went nuts on mccain saying he's not bush.

9:20 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Points for senator mccain for mentioning one of my obsessions: the ridiculous tariff on imported ethanol. Unfortunately, voters dont care about my obsessions.

9:19 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: @JP: Hatchets? Wouldn't Joe the Plumber use a wrench? Meanwhile, Tammy says: "I'm drinking Drano."

9:18 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: McCain talks spending freeze: men like hatchets better than women.

9:17 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: McCain is back to earmarks. Not a good sign. In fact, a very bad sign.

9:17 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Is it wise for mccain to talk about what "we" did during the depression? I mean, he was only in his twenties then.

9:16 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Who told the mainstream media that economic downturns are the time for belt tightening? I mean, that's nuts, isn't it? Did fdr cut the budget?

9:15 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: We've heard a lot about how intimate the seated setting is, but it's less so when they never show Obama and McCain in the same frame. It's like they're doing a dueling Face the Nation appearance.

9:14 p.m - Karen Tumulty: Tammy asks: "Are there actually plumbers who make less than $250K a year?"

9:13 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: I'm sorry, Joe the Plumber is now by far the famous plumber wherever he lives. Barack Obama probably made him rich through the sheer free advertising. Joe the Plumber just got a Super Bowl ad here!

9:11 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: "Joe the Plumber" and "spread the wealth around" are officially in the drinking game.

9:10 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: If Joe the Plumber charges as much as my plumber, he’s making more than $250,000 and Obama is going to soak him.

9:10 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Actually, joe the plumber is going to be mccain's secretary of state.

9:06 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: "Jobs." And the dial lines go WHANGO! Obama should work "jobs" into every answer, including any about Bill Ayers.

9:06 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: I'm sorry to start with facts, but this mess did NOT start with fannie and freddie. They buy mortgages - they don't issue mortgages. I'm in a grouchy mood - I'm going to drink when they lie.

And I'm drinking jack daniels. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

9:04 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Tammy Jones asks: "Is it a harbinger of horrors to come tonight that I tuned in just in time to hear Tom Brokaw quoting 'Humpty Dumpty?' And to MG already making Joey Buttafuoco references, mainly to show that he can spell Buttafooco and Mississippi right in one blog?"

9:03 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Excuse me, why is commie McCain not wearing a flag pin? I am going to send an angry viral e-mail out immediately!

9:02 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Matching navy suits. Obama and McCain look like flight attendants for the same airline.

9:02 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: There! I shook his damn hand! Are you happy?!

9:01 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: I want to see the dial group's reaction to Bob Schieffer.

9:00 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: Tammy Jones has agreed to join us, though she asks, "For this, I’m missing Project Runway?"

9:00 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @MG: Kenley does not hesitate to go negative.

8:59 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Amen! Although I think we can all agree that kenley is almost as annoying as dick morris.

8:57 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Will not be flipping channels tonight, by the way, because the other Tivo tuner is recording Project Runway finale. Commenters: no spoilers!

8:54 p.m.- Jim Poniewozik: CNN focus-group squiggly line is again going to be divided into lines for men and women. Is this really the salient division in this election? Shouldn't it be the Youngs vs the Olds?

8:52 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: Just canceled recording of 90210 on my Tivo to watch the debate. The things I do for you people.

8:51 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: @jp: I would have! I took a lot of crap for asking whether mccain was a long-shot or a no-shot....

8:48 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @KT and MG: Who would have thought, by the way, that we would be going into the last debate, and everyone on cable would be talking about nothing but what John McCain needs to do? If no one mentions Bill Ayers, there will be some glum faces around the CNN table.

8:47 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: It's karen who's in god's country tonight. Or at least my country. I grew up 20 minutes from hofstra.

Tammy jones, if you're going to butt in again tonight, I'm ready for your joey buttafuoco/howard stern/joel rifkin jokes.

8:47 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: They’re thanking the Hofstra trustees one by one. I’m starting to yearn for Brit Hume.

8:38 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @MG: Sorry, I'm afraid God made Michigan first.

8:37 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: @JP and MG: We're getting some kind of live feed from inside the debate hall. That means there are no talking heads to cut away from Frank Fahrenkopf and Paul Kirk as they tell the audience not to make noise and thank all their corporate sponsors. And no wiggly lines. I'm trying to decide if I'm better off, or you guys are.

8:37 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: @jp: well, yes. The first speaker at the cookout just welcomed us to god's country. But I should point out that the second speaker was eric fleming, the black democrat who's running against sen cochran. And he just led the crowd in a rousing chant of WE ARE MISSISSIPPI!

8:33 p.m. - Karen Tumulty: @MG: Maybe it's a sign of the hard economic times: Bud must be the libation of choice this evening. Budweiser, as it happens, is sponsoring a tent outside this filing center, but no one seems to be bringing any in here, so it's a pretty dry and dour place. We are in some kind of athletic center at Hofstra. If the debate is boring, I may go try out the climbing wall.

8:33 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: @MG: Oh, sorry, I see you wrote that you're watching Fox News. Like I had to ask!

8:29 p.m. - Jim Poniewozik: I'm settled in front of the TV, with a Blue Point Oktoberfest beer from the great region of Long Island, in honor of Hofstra University. Will probably be watching CNN, because I can't resist the squiggly lines. @MG: What channel are they watching the debate on in Real America, where people are good?

8:22 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: Hey y'all. I'll be watching tonight with a few hundred of my new best friends at Johnny Morgan's annual Good Ol' Boys political cookout in oxford, mississippi--and not the university part of oxford. The liquid of choice in johnny's barn is bud light. there are white paper tablecloths, peanuts and big hunks of cheese. A snowy old tv is airing fox news - and it's great, because I can't hear a word dick morris is saying. There's no wifi, so I'll be blogging by blackberry, as bloggers in johnny's barn always do.

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Posted by q | October 30, 2008 8:14 AM

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Posted by lauryn123 | October 22, 2008 9:43 AM

10:20 p.m. - Michael Grunwald: I'll tell you one thing: joe the plumber is laying some pipe tonight. Tonight is definitely going to be sacred for mrs. Wurtzelfarfegnugen.

Ooooookay, Michael. No more BUI (Blogging Under the Influence) for you.

How's your head this morning?

Posted by billiecat | October 16, 2008 9:37 AM

I assume "TIME's Michael Grunwald, Jim Poniewozik, and Karen Tumulty" are supposed to be journalists. They sound like teenagers slamming each other and their parents at an underage beer bust.

You should hire some of the more intelligent commenters to replace then.

Posted by Usher73 | October 16, 2008 1:18 AM

Just speaking as a person without biases, as far as that is possible as we do carry those around, McCain is so so very, very angry and dislikeable. He reminds me of that grumpy college professor who uplifts himself and his credentials and belittles everybody else; and you either go and drop his class or endure a semester of him gyrating about himself. Then you spread the news around college to stay away from that crazy guy. I think he will have a hard time winning over young independents. He is so angry!

Posted by nice | October 16, 2008 12:56 AM

I have a question, if Obama feels that the Fox channel makes him look like a freak, why shouldn't his opponent have a friendly channel? Obama has a channel or two that is more than happy to attack McCain. If it wasn't for those channels McCain would be up a couple of points also. If Obama gives everyone under $250,000 a tax cut, then who is going to fund America? You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Posted by freedom | October 16, 2008 12:34 AM

hate to break it to you Dogtail but politicians and the way they talk to each other are pretty much universal

Posted by Euro99 | October 16, 2008 12:10 AM

Let's see, the first exodus of jobs was to Mexico in the past. Who's watch did that happen? Have we seen an actual trickle down yet? I don't think so. I do believe that a trickle down will actually work if the we can get the jobs back. What do the Democrats think will get the jobs back, tax cuts to people making under $250,000? Yep, that should do it. Why should industry stay here when they are out to make a profit and a profit is easier to make over seas?

Posted by freedom | October 16, 2008 12:05 AM

John, before you can debate you much be up on the issues. You failed to lay out a plan again. I remember watching you on meet the press with tim before he died and you admitted to not reading the bush's plan to go to war you just vote to go to war. John, how can you be president and unprepared at the same time--you are not a leader, you are a yes man.

Posted by LA | October 15, 2008 11:57 PM

These blogs have been the highlight of each debate for me. You all seemed to nail what I was thinking while I was thinking it. And Tammy too. Thanks a lot!

I want you all to liveblog different things. Academy Awards? Sporting events? Miss America contest? Just tossin' it out there...

Posted by craig | October 15, 2008 11:43 PM

When was the last time that McCain had to worry about heath care? Thank you US!
Where is he coming from...for heavens sake we are drowning in Heath Care bills, give us a break. We NEED some help...best country in the world...we did in the waiting rooms of Emergency Rooms - where is that going?

Who do you really want to run this country..someone who has worked to succeed or someone who married RICH to get to the top.

And keep in mind LADIES...oppose Roe vs Wade..please why should government tell us what we need to do...OH MY women can't decide this because we need the GOVERNMENT to tell us it's our BODY-
OH PLEASE ..I am choking with the Republican policies!@ Help me understand this ..Is this 1950?

Posted by Dyane | October 15, 2008 11:42 PM

The Democrats truly understand what is needed to create a new economy, Bill Clinton has done it before, and Obama has a plan around energy on the same lines. There cannot be a transformation in economy by fixing broken things at this point (which is important but not solely the solution in itself...), but creation of a whole new sub-economy around energy (and potentially few other areas) is essential that becomes the catalyst for the entire economy down the line and rest of the world would look up to America for seeking that expertise and technology.

Posted by ra2008 | October 15, 2008 11:39 PM

Hey...you know Obama was thinking, "this is one crazy mofo" and so I was wondering. In England or Italy...Europe, would you have a real "debate" in that Obama would just say a this? Say something we all know is TRUE? Why can't we just call McCain a nutso old man?

"Senator McCain...ah..(clears throat), look,
you are just one crazy old mother f----- and well, we all know it."

Why can't he just SAY THE TRUTH?

Posted by Dogtail | October 15, 2008 11:34 PM

You can’t pull out of a slow economy without jobs. What pulled us out of the recession in the late 70’s, was new tech related jobs in the 80s and 90s and the U.S. auto industry revamping their production lines. Well since then, the Republican’s have let all those tech jobs go to places like India or let big business import workers for the cheaper labor cost and the U.S. Auto industry guessed wrong again and thought we all wanted gas hog SUVs. Also most other manufacturing has also went over seas to China so the CEOs could make more profits and give themselfs multi million dollar stock options to avoid taxes. We need to create new jobs here for the American people. Reagan’s Trickle Down Theory just made the rich wealthier and did not create new jobs here. The new jobs for Americans will have to come from new technology in new Energy related areas. Lets not export this too! Making solar panels in China wouldn’t help. I’m voted Republican up through 2000, I have changed, we need a change, I’m voting Obama. Yes, I’m from Illinois and do believe he is the right person for the job. Biden is also a better VP candidate. I once said it didn't matter, the Democrats take my hard earned dollar and give to those too lazy to work or the Repubicans take that same dollar and stick it into their own pocket. Well I have decided that I would rather help those in need than those who just want to buy another vacation home.

Posted by Dkuntzi | October 15, 2008 11:28 PM

McCain is about McCain and the McCain Family's history. He always brings up how he's been serving our country, he can continue to serve from CAPITOL HILL because he won't serve from THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!!!!

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Posted by menokia | October 15, 2008 11:15 PM

McCain keeps praising Palin in his debates, perhaps he could have been better off by keeping her off the discussion tonight. How Palin's qualifications match up to what is needed for a VP of the greatest nation on this planet? The complexity and scale of demographics and economy she has managed just for few years is nowhere close to what a VP of United States of America deals with on a daily basis....haven't heard much substance from her either, she may be a great speaker with the will do right things, but where's the relevant experience, knowledge and vision? May be she can prove all of this down the line, but does not seem to the case in this election..

Posted by ra2008 | October 15, 2008 11:01 PM

Joe the Plumber!!! He should be Pres!
check out www.zazzle.com/joetheplumber*

Posted by ForJoe | October 15, 2008 10:59 PM

Tonight's debate between Obama and McCain was classic Ali and Frazier. Frazier relentlessly pounds at the Champ while Ali does his rope-a-dope. Who wins? And who only appears to be winning?

Posted by mr_however | October 15, 2008 10:59 PM

Stuart sorry, I didn't mean to indicate that I believed that any thinking person would feel that McCain won the debate, I was trying to indicate what I thought the talking heads would declare.

Posted by ivb | October 15, 2008 10:59 PM

Joe the Plumber needs to do the math. I don't think he gets it. It's apparent who he is for. He will not be better for voting that way.

Posted by alrac70 | October 15, 2008 10:58 PM

CBS insta poll of uncommitted voters

Obama wins 53%
JOhn wins 22&

28% undecided to vote Obama
14& for McCain

McCain right on health care - 27 before debate, 30 after debate
Obama right on health care - 60 before debate, 69 after debate

CBS HAS JOE PLUMBER ON THE PHONE!!!

Posted by dgopalan | October 15, 2008 10:57 PM

ivb is completely right about the wisdom of Bob Somerby.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/

Posted by stuart_zechman | October 15, 2008 10:57 PM

I would like the same choice the John and Cindy had for schooling. Can I have the McCain Foundation pay for my kids' tuitions at very expensive and exclusive private schools?

Can I have $32 million in the bank?

Didn't think so...
John McCain faux populist.

http://harpers.org/archive/2008/02/hbc-90002519

Posted by CTS | October 15, 2008 10:56 PM

dgopalin, it's late and I'm tired, but I think Bob Somerby has had some things to say about David Gregory.

Go to www.dailyhowler.com and search David Gregory.

If you aren't familiar with Somerby's site, I first learned of it several years ago in a Paul Krugman column when he said he read it every day. I figured if it was good enough for Krugman, it was good enough for me. Sometimes Somerby's prose is over the top and I don't always agree with him, but I always think about what he says and much of the time he's right. He has changed the way I think about media.

Posted by ivb | October 15, 2008 10:54 PM

Thanks Stuart - skimming through the article right now, interesting

Stay up people CBS instal poll coming up after the next break

Posted by dgopalan | October 15, 2008 10:54 PM

ivb:

I honestly can't believe that McCain won any arguments tonight.

For Americans who want reasonable, concerned people to govern them, Obama looked and sounded just that.

For Americans who want frustrated, incoherent people to govern them, McCain looked and sounded just that.

Posted by stuart_zechman | October 15, 2008 10:54 PM

McCain came out nasty. Obama has too much dignity and class to meet McCain on the nasty. To tell the truth, McCain should be glad Obama does not fire back in the same nasty tone that McCain uses. McCain lied because he did not reprimand his supporters until the press criticized him for allowing people to shout things like 'kill him', etc. And face it, McCain does run a nastier attack on Obama. Obama tries to stick with the issues.

Posted by alrac70 | October 15, 2008 10:53 PM

Andrea Mitchell doesnt watch the debates it seems. She just says the same ish over and over. "Barack Obama just sat on a lead"

Gimme a frikking break. Obama laid out in specific terms all of his policies.

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 15, 2008 10:51 PM

Jon King is near worthless as a journalist:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/01/16/king/

Posted by stuart_zechman | October 15, 2008 10:50 PM

Ok, this is still driving me crazy. Sarah Palin has an infant with Down's Syndrome, so I don't see how that makes her an expert or even a potential advocate for autism. She is just STARTING to learn what it's like to parent a child with Down's Syndrome. Autism is an entirely different disability. Also, funding for programs and services for persons with disabilities is determined by STATE governments, not the federal government. Programs, services and access vary tremendously from state to state. So, no matter what she says to pander to voters who have an interest in this area, she would have no direct ability to affect funding or programs.

Posted by naomi | October 15, 2008 10:50 PM

I guess half of these comments show the level of intelligence and social class that the Obama campaign is appealing to.

Posted by AshleyOh | October 15, 2008 10:50 PM

John McCain comes off like a creepy funeral director. And good heavens, doesn't he know that 1/3 of working Americans (ONE THIRD) work for minimum wage??! McCain seems to fret only about the super-wealthy-- but then again he has that heiress trophy wife-- something we can all relate to, right?
Obama is actually much too moderate for me- this "left" designation would be a howl, if there were not so many taking it seriously.

And "terrorist pal-ing around?" Oh please. McCain's huggy-kissy thing with (anti-Castro) Cuban terrorists (who have killed dozens) makes Obama being on a committee with someone who did his thing when Obama was 8 ( and whose kill ratio compared to McCain pals= negligable) is pretty pathetic.

McCain platform tonight: Ayers & "Joe The Plumber." Great. I can take that to the bank.
And Palin? Jeez. She's barely qualified to be an Avon Lady.

Posted by JaiJai | October 15, 2008 10:50 PM

Thanks ivb - every-time he comes on screen I think I should pay attention to him cause he has grey hair and is not screaming at me but when I listen to what he has to say - I find that he doesn't break any major stories but rather speaks about the people he has met

Posted by dgopalan | October 15, 2008 10:49 PM

stuart, I agree. I said way downthread that I thought that McCain won this debate. I think Obama got better as he went along, but this wasn't the big positive I thought the other two were.

Posted by ivb | October 15, 2008 10:49 PM

oh yeah and by the way I usually have nothing but scorn for Mike Scherer but he did provide this link which matches TOTALLY what we just saw from John McCain. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l63SRpGXBHE

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 15, 2008 10:49 PM

Romney on NBC: Obama doesn't want to keep America, America

Posted by dgopalan | October 15, 2008 10:47 PM

dgopalin, I don't think much of John King. I think he is one of the Village wannabes and is not the independent journalist he tries to seem.

Posted by ivb | October 15, 2008 10:47 PM

This seemed to me to be McCain’s strongest and most coherent performance in these debates, and he was doing a better job of articulating a big vision.

This seems to be the consensus that the chatterers are herding towards.

I guess that the expectations game is still what the punditocracy is playing. McCain's head didn't explode, so therefore he "won".

I guess that's something to be expected from a class of people who will never be personally affected by the policies articulated by the candidates.

Posted by stuart_zechman | October 15, 2008 10:46 PM

Gregory is trying so hard to make Obama more negative than McCain and Andrea Mitchell twisting herself into a pretzel to indicate that Obama had more negative ads because he has had more ads.

No distinction if it is negative by saying policy is wrong or palling around with terrorists, of course.

Posted by ivb | October 15, 2008 10:44 PM

For those of you still remaining- how much weight do you give to John King's (of CNN fame) analysis?

He comes across as so knowledgeable and independent but I don't know if thats really the case

Posted by dgopalan | October 15, 2008 10:42 PM

These people are out of their minds.

Posted by stuart_zechman | October 15, 2008 10:41 PM

Andrea Mitchell, McCain's best performance evah!

Mathews, Barack again.

Posted by ivb | October 15, 2008 10:41 PM

Does anyone else see a problem with the fact that Mc Cain is using the fact that Palain has a disabled child to better his campaign , and how does he know Joe the plumper him and his wife left right after the last debate. You know Mc Cain was real tight with Bush till he noticed it was hurting him.

Posted by Laura | October 15, 2008 10:40 PM

I don't know if anyone else got this, but Mccain came across ridiculously rude, not strong.

Posted by roxychick2006 | October 15, 2008 10:40 PM

CNN's panel is apparently high from huffing paint during the debate.

Unbelievable.

Posted by stuart_zechman | October 15, 2008 10:39 PM

McCain needs more substance in his statements, although he took on a more aggressive stand and got emotional at times on petty issues. Obama maintained his balance as usual, is a much better speaker in general, but he should have steered the conversation in his favor on economy and war in Iraq.

Posted by ra2008 | October 15, 2008 10:37 PM

Oh bollocks. Talking heads going on about how this was a great debate. Hoeey. They didn't spend any significant time on foreign policy. A non trivial part of the office, and how is it with all the economy talk, Obama didn't mention the gobsmacking amount of money we are spending on the two wars.

Posted by Curseword69 | October 15, 2008 10:37 PM

Bill Bennett - McCain was a good conservative, Bob Schieffer great moderator.

Paul Begala - split screen wins it for Obama.

David Gergen - McCain lost it during the exchange about the campaign ads while Obama kept his cool.

In unrelated news, the 12 person table is RIDICULOUS, CNN.

Posted by Chaddogg | October 15, 2008 10:36 PM

JDavison - I heard that! I actually clapped...lol

Posted by canada_girl79 | October 15, 2008 10:36 PM

John McCain was like a monkey that has been told to pull a lever to get a peanut. The poor creature yanks the lever a dozen times, gets nowhere, but can't think of an alternative, so goes back for another hopeful jerk with a pathetic belief that it has to work out sometime, anytime.

Posted by basilbrush | October 15, 2008 10:35 PM

I bet the plumber will be on every news show tomorrow and an overnight celebrity. Eventually drug addict and then molestor! what a life!

Posted by New Voter | October 15, 2008 10:35 PM

I don't even know what to say. This was like rubbernecking on the highway.

Posted by dfhstill | October 15, 2008 10:34 PM

NBC just gave credit to a commenter for the Watergate joke, in case you missed it.

Posted by JDavison | October 15, 2008 10:34 PM

I don't know who won that debate.

McCain did come out strong and seemed angry but for some reason I think people are going to like that he was angry perhaps thinking that his anger translates to him being like the everyday man angry at washington

Posted by dgopalan | October 15, 2008 10:34 PM

Anderson Cooper -- "Joe the Plumber, probably the most-talked about plumber in the history of presidential debates."

Posted by Chaddogg | October 15, 2008 10:33 PM

Look at the body language of the Obama's versus the McCains. The Obama's are standing close to each other, arms linked. There's a couple of feet between John and Cindy.

Posted by Kathryn | October 15, 2008 10:33 PM

awww.... I just kinda felt bad for McCain, he looked a little crazy looking for his wife.

Posted by canada_girl79 | October 15, 2008 10:33 PM

Wasn't Obama's best performance but at least he didn't smirk and make faces through the whole thing. No knock out punch for Mac daddy.

Posted by waterboy | October 15, 2008 10:33 PM

Obama ruined McCain.

I can't imagine anybody watching this debate truly walking away with the honest belief that McCain bested Obama.

Posted by stuart_zechman | October 15, 2008 10:32 PM

Holy crap...does Cindy McCain have a portrait in the attic? She's starting to look like his granddaughter.

Posted by Speque | October 15, 2008 10:32 PM

Bob Schieffer -- seriously, YOU are the BIG winner tonight. Excellent moderator who deserves HUGE applause for letting the candidates DEBATE!

Posted by Chaddogg | October 15, 2008 10:32 PM

That's one for Obama.

Posted by gb67 | October 15, 2008 10:32 PM

alright Sen.McCain - now tell us how Sen.Obama's policy on education is wrong - don't tell us your policies - just trash his... His plan here is to trash Obama at all stops.. he looks angry/bitter.

Posted by skip2249 | October 15, 2008 10:32 PM

Well, MY Granddad told ME that "You shouldn't shoot 77-year-men in the face". But, I think these are different situations.

Posted by CorruptAbramoff | October 15, 2008 10:32 PM

Ok one last time for the cheap seats. John McCain lied through his teeth about nominating Supreme Court justices. Taken DIRECTLY from his websites on johnmccain.com

Overturning Roe v. Wade

John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 15, 2008 10:32 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this was McCain's worst performance by far. His strategy of stuffing every talking point he could think of into each answer, regardless of the relevance, made hims sound absolutely incoherent about 90% of the time.

Posted by superterrificdelegate | October 15, 2008 10:32 PM

By the far the best debate because I paid the least attention. I totally feel watching Lost on DVD now. I think my slowly developed hatred that occured over season 4 is starting to thaw.

Posted by Curseword69 | October 15, 2008 10:31 PM

Obama's closing statement was more concrete and meaningful indeed...

Posted by ra2008 | October 15, 2008 10:31 PM

Why is he just focusing on Autism. Palin's child has Down's Syndrome. He should be making reference to all children with special needs. Everyone child can't have a voucher. What about the rest of the students.

Posted by alrac70 | October 15, 2008 10:31 PM

Go Obama/Biden!!!

Posted by New Voter | October 15, 2008 10:31 PM

@AshleyOh - If McCain knows what he stands for, why has he flip-flopped on tax cuts, immigration, and negative campaigning, for starters? The McCain we're seeing in this campaign bears very little relation to the one who ran in 2000 or who branded himself a maverick. If he knows what he stands for, why is is kow-towing to the worst elements of the Republican party?

Posted by time-blogger | October 15, 2008 10:31 PM

@James Poniewozik - I'm calling for a Lostwatch: Election Style tomorrow....we CLEARLY need to cast the Election as Lost characters.

Posted by Chaddogg | October 15, 2008 10:30 PM

Someone needs to point out to Senator McCain that Governor Palin's son has Down Syndrome, not autism.

Posted by Jai E | October 15, 2008 10:30 PM

Obama has what we used to call in my family a trophy head. cute sticky out ears.

Posted by brownbell | October 15, 2008 10:30 PM

McCain's closing: about McCain.
Obama's cosing: about us.

Smart.

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 15, 2008 10:30 PM

and Joh? what is up with the side left side of your face. Looks like he got popped before the debates.

Posted by New Voter | October 15, 2008 10:29 PM

Stop calling me your friend, McKnobGobbler! I wouldn't have a lying sleazebag like you on the front lawn, never mind in my house!

Posted by basilbrush | October 15, 2008 10:29 PM

I know why McCain laughs and ridicules Obama, it is is why to release his stress, that he is really scared about losing and that he only talks bad about his oponent is to make time to not answer the questions completely and to show is hypocrite face of 'I understand you, I'm on your side' ... he is on the rich people's side not us, working poor people.

Posted by Kat | October 15, 2008 10:29 PM

I really dislike Sun as Palin. Sun is more independant and intelligent. She is willing to challenge authority, question plans, demand answers.

Posted by Curseword69 | October 15, 2008 10:28 PM

We do not trust you John. You are creepy!@

Posted by New Voter | October 15, 2008 10:28 PM

Indeed--the Keating bailout was the work of a real tax steward.

Posted by mbaker | October 15, 2008 10:28 PM

Are you kidding me? Obama has McCain slaughtered...but only in eloquence. Obama repeats the same BS-just delivers it in a more defined way. John McCain has the gentlemanlike demeanor to simply ignore Barack's rude and untimely placed interruptions. Look-Barack Obama is a incredible orator, but if he actually knew what he was talking about, and had the experience to prove it(Like Senator McCain does) it might be a bit more believable.

A) How many things are going to be Obama's "Highest Priority"...? Because thus far, I've heard about three different things.

B) All of these fantastic -Obama-proposals are going to be funded by...oh, our tax payer money, ya know, after all of the cuts he's going to be giving the "Middle Class."

C) How many times has Obama reiterated exactly what McCain said - calling it his own ideas...

I think Obama could stand to learn a thing or two by someone who has a record of taking a stand...rather than just voting "present." We need a President who KNOWS what he stands for.

Posted by AshleyOh | October 15, 2008 10:28 PM

(As a soon-to-be college student...)

Posted by Susan | October 15, 2008 10:28 PM

mydebates.org??? Can I give feedback there?

1. Bob Schieffer if you have to have a moderator.

2. No moderators -- just let them go and debate!

3. Seriously -- why do we let these campaigns set the rules???!!! Screw 'em! We want REAL debates!

Posted by Chaddogg | October 15, 2008 10:28 PM

Me!

Posted by Susan | October 15, 2008 10:28 PM

More money is definitely needed for education. Need to get back to the basics. No child left behind was a joke. Now McCain is going to fund it. Just a minute ago, he was critical of Obama for making a statement about funding education. He is such a cynical little man.

Posted by alrac70 | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM

Wowie.

Vouchers for Plumbers!!!

Thanks for hosting you all.

Posted by waterworld wizard | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM

"Its nice to be with you...uh"... he couldn't even call him Sen.Obama?! geez

Posted by canada_girl79 | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM

Vouchers, Charters, Vouchers, Charters

There goes the blinking again...

Posted by gb67 | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM

"My friends" There it is!!!

Posted by cilstone | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM

Palin's boyfriend will run to the hills the day Barack wins the election. You know that is a shotgun relationship.

Posted by New Voter | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM

Ugh, I can't even describe how despicable I just found McCain's snickering

Posted by dgopalan | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM

"Sen. McCain, do you have a closing cackle?"

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM

John McCain is a very very very creepy guy

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM

Sarah's child is under 6 months and is NOT autistic!

And children do NOT lose the gains of Headstart, they are at grade level instead of behind! They would stay ahead of grade level if given appropriate resources.

I'd like to 'pie' that smirk.

Posted by carolc | October 15, 2008 10:26 PM

Karen he's lying again she from teach for amrica and she does not believe in vouchers

Posted by Dee in Columbia MD | October 15, 2008 10:26 PM

"Senator McCain is absolutely right." I think keep saying it to get under McCain's skin. Watch McCain's face every time he says it.

Posted by TheNewGuy4321 | October 15, 2008 10:26 PM

I would love for Barack to slap him one time... that would be classic!!

Posted by New Voter | October 15, 2008 10:26 PM

Wait, wait, McCain's going off on a riff about children with autism and how Sarah Palin knows more about them than anyone else, just ask her. Does he know the difference between autism and Downs syndrome?

Posted by ivb | October 15, 2008 10:26 PM

Senator McCain has performed like Captain Queeg on the witness stand.

Posted by Andy from Massachusetts | October 15, 2008 10:26 PM

anyone think that Palin's daughters boyfriend will drop her daughter once McCain looses the election? He is being forced to do 'the right thing'..

Posted by skip2249 | October 15, 2008 10:26 PM

How does Palin know best about autistic children? Isn't her autistic child only like 5 months old?

Posted by cilstone | October 15, 2008 10:26 PM

The only way that McCain thinks he is going to win is to ridicule his opponent instead of showing respect and showing he knows about the stuff. Same thing with his running mate, Palin, they only know how to talk bad about their opponents instead of showing their real qualifications to win, why should we trust and believe in them.

Posted by Kat | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

Does anyone else that John MCCain doesn't answer questions but attacks Obama instead?

Posted by jacksmom | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

Excuse me?? Sarah Palin knows about autism because she has a Down Syndrome child?? Is McCain aware that the two are NOT interchangeable???????

Posted by Speque | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

Chaddogg -

Not Palin as Sun? Really, she's got the mother bit, harbors a serious mean streak, looks to others for leadership and keeps wanting her man (McCain) to swing back to her view.

Posted by JDavison | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

Cindy McCain is Penny Widmore -- rich, wealthy, standing by her man....

Posted by Chaddogg | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

They keep saying 'autism' but I thought that Palin's child has Downs' Syndrome.

Posted by Terrapinion | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

Is Obama pro-Autism? Did I miss something?

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

Does Sarah Palin have Autism?

Posted by dfhstill | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

autism new drinking game entry

Posted by Dee in Columbia MD | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

MG sweetie, it's time to take the lampshade off your head and please do not open up the next bottle of Jack. Drink a quart of water before you pass out, it will help with the hangover. Then give Mrs. G a kiss and tell her you love her and will make it up tomorrow.

Sleep tight!

Posted by Kathryn | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

MG, Joe the Plumber is actually laying pipes right now with C-Span in the background...

Posted by TheNewGuy4321 | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

What the hell is transparency? invisible plans?

Posted by New Voter | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

He just totally lied about Head Start. Every objective analysis says Head Start makes a helluva difference

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM

which Lost characters are which politician, BRILLIANT!

Posted by yogi | October 15, 2008 10:24 PM

No child left behind has been a DISASTER on the ground. I'm guessing John McCain's not too familiar with how this program has decimated inner city schools.

Posted by time-blogger | October 15, 2008 10:24 PM

Pay attention Obama! I'm surprised he didn't reach over and swat him with a ruler.

Posted by waterboy | October 15, 2008 10:24 PM

Rousseau as Palin. She isolates herself from other people. She is an amazingly committed mother. Weids a gun well, and is occasionally a little bit crazy.

Posted by Curseword69 | October 15, 2008 10:24 PM

McCain's last point of the night is going to be about vouchers?

Posted by superterrificdelegate | October 15, 2008 10:24 PM

I figured Sarah would be good for more Saturday Night Live skits, but Barack is the only actual person that makes sense in this entire debate. John needs to just give up now and stop us from spending millions to tell him we do not want him any where near the White House.

Posted by New Voter | October 15, 2008 10:24 PM

There was McCain's full stare with blinking, as Obama talked of the problem of unfunded mandates.

Posted by carolc | October 15, 2008 10:24 PM

"Your wife"? Why not just say "that woman"?

Posted by mbaker | October 15, 2008 10:24 PM

That was the first time McCain has look