October 7, 2008 9:00

The Second Presidential Debate

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McCain and Obama faced off for 90 minutes in a town hall style debate at Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee. NBC’s Tom Brokaw was the moderator.

Michael Grunwald, Jim Poniewozik, and Karen Tumulty once again brought you up-to-the-minute commentary on the debate, which started at 9:00 p.m. EST. They will return here live on Wednesday, October 15, at 9:00 p.m. EST for the third Presidential Debate. Hofstra University in Long Island, New York is the site of the upcoming debate to be produced by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The moderator will be Bob Schieffer, CBS News Chief Washington Correspondent.

All times listed below are EST.

10:46 p.m. - JP - My wrapup: Congratulations, Commission on Presidential Debates! You managed to take an encounter with real Americans and drain it of any possible human interest! I can't, however, entirely blame the CPD. The candidates each seem to be playing for a tie. Politically, I can see why Obama would do that. I'm not entirely sure what McCain's aim was. And he's is supposed to be the guy who comes alive in the town hall format?

Also, I blame the people. I appreciate the audience dutifully following the instructions not to react, but even the questions—except that last corker from New Hampshire—were zombielike. Tom Brokaw, meanwhile, did not especially impress me: he seemed peevish about the time limits, and to the extent he tried to drive the discourse, it was often with weirdly stunt-y questions. ("Is Russia an Evil Empire?" Gentlemen, I invite you to start a new Cold War!)

Still and all, I'm somebody who's been following the campaign from the get-go. By definition this debate is not for me. Perhaps a voter who hasn't heard these answer before saw a very substantive, informative debate.

All in all, though, it was the work of professionals seemingly determined to avoid creating any memorable moments. And they succeeded greatly.

10:45 p.m. - MG - In conclusion: This was a lot like the first debate, except duller. They both did OK, I guess, but McCain looked old and grumpy, probably because he's old and grumpy. His real problem is that he's a Republican in a year when the Republican brand is so toxic it should qualify for a bailout. Obama keeps tying him to Bush, and because he's an allegation-ignorer rather than an allegation-answerer, he's practically conceding the point. At least he didn't roll out the slime, like Tammy Jones did.

Do you think Cindy McCain will call that the dirtiest debate in the history of the planet?

10:40 p.m. - KT - Summing up? I'm not sure this was a good night for Barack Obama, but I think it was a bad night for John McCain. And these last two debates were supposed to be his best ones.

10:35 p.m. - JP - Tom tells the candidates they are in the way of his prompter, "In addition to everything else"! Ouch! You do not do over the time limit on Mr. Brokaw!

10:34 p.m. - MG - And so they finish up: Change vs. Experience. Are campaigns really necessary?

10:32 p.m. - JP - What don't I know and how will I learn it? Um, the candidates' concrete plans to deal with the credit crisis, and—maybe by watching the next debate?

10:30 p.m. - MG - GREAT question, Peggy in New Hampshire!

10:27 p.m. - MG - I repeat: This format sucks. It's just side-by-side stump speeches with human props.

That said, if this was your only exposure to the campaign, you'd probably have enough information to make a reasonably informed decision.

10:26 p.m. - KT - Man! I was hoping McCain wouldn't bring up stinking corpses again in this debate. Plus, another "my friend."

10:25 p.m. - JP - McCain''s "maybe" on "Is Russia an Evil Empire?" perhaps his best answer of the night. A nonanswer with a cogent explanation of why it's a nonanswer.

10:23 p.m. - JP - Contributions of 2008 election to American lexicon: "petro-" as a prefix.

10:22 p.m. - MG - @JP: I doubt it. But so far the moment I'll remember from this one was McCain's little gotcha about how Obama voted for Bush's energy bill--which was actually a legitimate gotcha, because that bill sucked, but he said it in a way that suggested it was totally shocking that for once, Obama sided with Bush and McCain was on the other side. That's Obama's whole point.

10:22 p.m. - KT - @MG: Tammy totally should get to blog for the next debate. She took the buyout at the Post. What else does she have to do?

10:21 p.m. - JP - Another open question. Will there be a memorable moment from any one of the Presidential debates?

10:19 p.m. - MG - I think it's all gone downhill for McCain since Tammy criticized his tie. Now he's bragging how his snap judgment of Putin was better than Bush's snap judgment. And yes, I'm done abusing Tammy.

10:19 p.m. - KT - @JP: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

10:18 p.m. - JP - @MG: You didn't say "force for good *and not evil*." Also, sex gave us natural selection and the Internet. (At least if you include porn under sex.) I have officially dragged down the discussion.

10:17 p.m. - JP - Open question to those who study politics more than I do. I kept hearing how McCain thrives in the town hall. Um, is this thriving? Seriously, is this his usual performance, or is he accustomed to doing a different kind of town hall?

10:16 p.m. - KT - McCain: "I'm not going to telegraph my punches." You mean, like having your campaign tell the papers this weekend that you are going to go negative, so you can change the subject from the economy?

10:16 p.m. - JP - @KT: Guided By Lobbyists. Awesome band name.

10:15 p.m. - MG - @JP Are you kidding? Has there ever been a war, a scandal, or a celebrity divorce that wasn't caused by "the desire for sex"?

10:15 p.m. - KT - @JP:

Tonight, John McCain said: “There is too much special interests and too many lobbyists working there.“ [Presidential Debate, 10/7/08]

THE FACTS: MCCAIN HAS ACCEPTED MILLIONS IN CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS FROM LOBBYISTS AND PACs AND HIS CAMPAIGN IS RUN BY LOBBYISTS

McCain Accepted Millions In Campaign Contributions From Lobbyists And PACs. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain’s presidential campaign has accepted $841,716 from federal lobbyists, and $1,346,385 from PACs. [Center for Responsive Politics website, accessed 10/1/08]

MCCAIN IS A WASHINGTON INSIDER, WHOSE CAMPAIGN IS “GUIDED BY LOBBYISTS”

10:13 p.m. - JP - Obama: "You're doing a great job, Tom." Fortunately did not call him "likeable enough."

10:12 p.m. - JP - @KT: Nuggets, please!

10:12 p.m. - JP - @MG: Greatest force for good in the history in the world? Sorry, I've gotta give that one to "the desire for sex."

10:11 p.m. - KT - @JP: I'm getting constant nuggets. But I'm ignoring them. Should I post some of them?

10:09 p.m. - JP - @KT: Am curious--are the campaigns continually emailing you mini-spin nuggets to the debate answers? Or do they do a big spin dump afterward?

10:07 p.m. - JP - McCain: Next time you say foreign policy requires a "cool hand," go for a little less glowering and intense. And maybe don't make a fist.

10:06 p.m. - MG - I'm having trouble concentrating, because I'm trying to decide whether the United States is the greatest force for good in the history of the world. It's become one of those silly talking points, but it's really an incredibly provocative idea.It would be a great essay question: Discuss.

10:04 p.m. - JP - @KT: Seriously, it's like someone coached him to get into every frame possible. It's looks like the photos from Zelig.

10:03 p.m. - KT - I'm very distracted by McCain standing behind Obama and looking really, really mad.

10:03 p.m. - JP - Switching to beer, btw. In honor of Joe Sixpack.

10:02 p.m. - MG - The dials are going berserk again as Obama talks about how much we're spending in Iraq. Which raises a larger point that JP and I were discussing a bit offline: It may be that the post-debate polls favored Obama and Biden--and the national polls favor Obama-Biden--because more Americans agree with Obama and Biden about foreign and domestic policy. Which would be a problem for McCain.

10:01 p.m. - JP - @ the commenters: Yeah, I don't know what's going on with the CNN pundit scorecards either. I think some of them may have passed out. Poison gas?

9:59 p.m. - JP - Seriously, on that health-care-as-right thing: the dial-group's women had their dials jammed at the maximum for Obama for nearly his full answer. I think he may have broken the equipment.

9:57 p.m. - KT - Oh, what the hell, next time let's just bring Tammy into the blog. She now asks:

If you go across the state line' in Arizona in search of a better health plan, won't you be in Mexico?

9:56 p.m. - JP - Health care: right or responsibility:? Amazingly, they both answer. McCain says responsibility, Obama, right. I am going to sound partisan here, but just politically: You call health care a right. You just do it. I don't care what you actually believe. And the dial group, at least, seems to concur.

9:54 p.m. - MG - Obama has an ad in FL that says: The $5000 tax credit goes to the insurance companies. The new taxes go to you. I don't know if it's true--I am embarrassingly ignorant about health care--but it's pretty devastating.

9:53 p.m. - JP - On health care, a Bill Clinton would have laced his answers with little questions to the questioner—"Your premiums have gone up, right?"—that would prompt affirmations. Neither candidate is doing that, and I don't know why.

9:52 p.m. - MG - @JP: The crowd does look bored, even though Tom Brokaw said at the beginning that they had specifically promised to be "attentive." That's not attentiveness we can believe in.

9:51 p.m. - KT - @MG: Tammy retorts:

I am honored, and validated.

But... I was in the kitchen getting 'my friend' swig of sauvignon blanc and missed Obama's expression when McCain just taunted, 'THAT one.' Report, please!

9:50 p.m. - JP - McCain looming again. It's like he's going to come up on Obama with a blackjack.

9:48 p.m. - MG - Who would have thought that in the first hour, the only really nasty zinger would come from that vicious attack dog Tammy Jones?

9:49 p.m. - KT - That one?

9:47 p.m. - JP - The crowd of voters is doing an excellent job of looking unenthused. Nobody's bringing the fireworks.

9:45 p.m. - MG - @JP: Maybe they didn't like McCain scoffing at the notion that Obama thinks nuclear power ought to be safe. The nerve!

9:44 p.m. - JP - CNN dial group says: The ladies do not like nuclear power.

9:43 p.m. - KT - Third "my friends." You know what to do.

9:41 p.m. - JP - Where is this magical "table" you sit down to to solve all our problems? Why couldn't they just bring it out on stage?

9:41 p.m. - MG - The stage directions would have said:

MCCAIN (laughing creepily) "I'll answer the question."

9:40 p.m. - KT - @MG from my friend Tammy Jones:

Now MG made me feel bad for ridiculing an injured war hero. I wore a POW bracelet in 8th grade, even though it turned my wrist green!

Am I allowed to suggest that McCain find a personal dresser who appreciates that a tie is not supposed to exceed the length of the wearer's torso?

9:38 p.m. - JP - Tom Brokaw asks the candidates for a "date certain" on Social Security. What the-? I thought candidates were supposed to whip out stunt pledges. And also, that this debate's rules specifically forbade them. Is Tom Brokaw also going to whip out a veto pen?

9:36 p.m. - JP - "Senator Obama's secret, that you don't know..." Oh my God! He's going to play the Muslim card! Oh, wait, no, it's taxes.

9:35 p.m. - MG - McCain is really staking his claim on taxes. In Florida this week we've been deluged by Obama-will-raise-your-taxes ads. They seem very 1994.

9:35 p.m. - JP - Why not ask the $35K a year teacher to tighten her belt? Her reward is in Heaven!

9:35 p.m. - JP - @MG: Next debate: Presidential foam fingers!

9:33 p.m. - MG - @JP: He's like those guys behind the basket trying to distract the free-throw shooter!

9:32 p.m. - JP - McCain stands during Obama's response and sort of weirdly looms behind. He seems to be doing a lot of moving for the sake of moving.

9:30 p.m. - MG - Like John McCain, I am somewhat obsessed with porkbarrel spending and earmarks. But I don't know anyone else who shares our obsession.

9:29 p.m. - JP - @MG: To be fair, spending by terrorists stimulates all manner of economic sectors.

9:28 p.m. - KT - @MG: Yeah, I'm kind of mystified about that $700 billion statement. Plus, this whole town hall format is not working for McCain.

9:27 p.m. - MG - Obama is an allegation-answerer. McCain is a allegation-ignorer. I have no idea which comes off better. It makes McCain look like the aggressor, since he doesn't bother to answer Obama's charges. But maybe it means that Obama's charges stick.

9:27 p.m. - JP - Surprised that Obama actually does rank his economic priorities in order, which seems begging to be made into an attack ad. But doesn't take the bait to put entitlement reform on his list, since it automatically means goring someone's ox.

9:26 p.m. - JP - Staffer who gave Obama the current price of gas in Nashville gets a little something extra in his paycheck this week.

9:24 p.m. - MG - Did McCain just say he'll make sure the $700 billion (the bailout, right?) won't end up in the hands of terrorists? Or did I miss an antecedent?

9:24 p.m. - JP - Rank health care, energy and entitlement reforms in order of importance? It's Marry, Boff, Kill for the economy!

9:24 p.m. - KT - Second "my friends." Drink!

9:22 p.m. - KT - @MG: Yes, it really is feeling like Short Attention Span Theater.

9:22 p.m. - JP - @MG: And neither is taking any chance to phrase these concerns in kitchen-table terms. Somewhere, Bill Clinton is throwing things at the TV.

9:21 p.m. - JP - McCain tells a voter that he understands her "cynicism"?

9:20 p.m. - MG - This is almost useless without follow-ups. It's like they take turns delivering their stump speeches.

9:18 p.m. - MG - I hate to be even unfunnier than usual, but McCain moves that way because he got the living crap beaten out of him in a prison camp.

9:18 p.m. - JP - @KT: Yeah, maybe not fair, but relevant anyway. McCain does not move like a young man, or even a spry 72-year-old. I'm not sure all the walking is well advised.

9:17 p.m. - JP - @MG: I want to see politicians jabbing fingers.

9:16 p.m. - KT - My friend Tammy Jones writes:

McCain moves in a peculiar manner that makes me suspect that Obama gave him a wedgie before they went onstage.

9:15 p.m. - KT - Nancy Gibbs notes that this is maybe not the best day for McCain to invoke Meg Whitman:

Agence France-Presse
Page 18
2008-10-08 01:21 AM

Internet giant eBay Inc., which has seen sluggish growth in its online auction business, announced Monday it was cutting its global workforce by about 10 percent....

9:14 p.m. - MG - I'm interested in hearing politicians pointing fingers! Why aren't the American people?

9:13 p.m. - KT - McCain starting to get breathy and angry.

9:13 p.m. - JP - We're getting all kinds of crazy back and side shots of the candidates. There is such a thing as too much moving aboutt the stage.

9:12 p.m. - JP - Wasn't Obama directed never to say "I agree with John" about anything? Wasn't McCain directed not to mention his campaign "suspension"?

9:11 p.m. - MG - How condescending is that? I'll bet you never heard of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac? McCain isn't even right about the facts; the FM's were far from the worst offenders when it came to the subprime craze.

9:09 p.m. - JP - 1.3 million Americans make their living off eBay? Factcheck.org, please? Although, give it a few weeks, and it will probably be true. Can you sell tin cups of pencils on eBay?

9:08 p.m. - KT - First "my friends." Drink!

9:07 p.m. - JP - McCain was directed to go into the audience and address voters. Is this permitted in the debate rules? In any case, the question from the frowning guy in the Uncle Junior glasses was perhaps not the moment.

9:06 p.m. - JP - "Senator Obama, it's good to be with you tonight at a town hall meeting." ROWRRR! Or rather, ROWRR!, to the few thousand political junkies who get the reference.

9:06 p.m - MG - Senator Obama, it's good to be with you at a town-hall meeting. A bit subtle, but I laughed.

9:06 p.m. - KT - Commenter ivb: McCain isn't wearing a flag pin. Took first drink anyway.

9:04 p.m. - JP - @KT: There will be an acoustic guitar segment.

9:03 p.m. - KT - What's with the stools? Is this "Cheers"?

9:03 p.m. - JP - McCain shakes Obama's hand AND looks at him!

9:00 p.m. - JP - NBC's debate-coverage graphics include Greek columns. I call that arrogant!

8:58 p.m. - JP - On Fox News, Bill Kristol wants McCain to play the Ayers card. Also says it's OK for him to be "a little peevish."

8:57 p.m. - MG - David Gergen also said that voters want to hear real specific plans, which is even stronger evidence that voters don't want to hear real specific plans.

8:57 p.m. - KT - On MSNBC, I think I hear Chris Matthews in the 1.0 version of his stump speech for running against Arlen Specter.

8:54 p.m. - JP - Only 68% of the CNN undecided focus group think the country is headed in the wrong direction? Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the most optimistic people in America.

8:51 p.m. - MG - I would also like to say that like all those undecided voters in Columbus, I'm really looking for a candidate who will lay out a plan. With real specific details, not just vague political talking points. Because I'm a liar, and I know that's what I'm supposed to say when they put a camera in front of me.

8:49 p.m. - JP - By the way, do we have a rule in the drinking game for when someone in the crowd yells "Traitor!" or "Terrorist!"?

8:44 p.m. - JP - By the way, what does Soledad O'Brien think about again being consigned to undecided-voter-panel hell in Columbus again?

Also, as a Michigan Wolverine, I resent people from Columbus getting to speak for America's undecided. Although who am I kidding, the entire city of Ann Arbor is voting Obama.

8:44 p.m. - KT - Commenter grape_crush notes:

Karen, you may want to get the linky to this debate moved to the top of the page over at Swampland...some folks (non-regulars) may miss the posting you made earlier today...Just a suggestion.

Second, I have CNN HD on the teevee because Blitzer promised something special on HD and CNN.com Live sharing my Desktop with this liveblog...I have officially entered news junkie mode.

Third, it's a cheap seasonal spiced wine tonight...

Fourth, why can't the marketing geniuses at CNN come up with a better name for the magic board than "the magic board"?

8:41 p.m. - MG - Did Cindy McCain really say that Obama is running the dirtiest campaign in history? Dirtier than Jefferson 1800? Dirtier than the six militiamen? Dirtier than Ma, Ma, where's my Pa? Dirtier than George Bush sliming John McCain in South Carolina in 2000?

Next they're going to say Obama is too old to be president.

8:41 p.m. - JP - On CNN, someone—I believe it was Suzanne Malveaux—said that because of stereotypes Barack Obama cannot afford, as a black man, to appear too angry or use humor. Really? Not even a "white people dance like this..." joke?

8:37 p.m. - JP - @KT: Don't worry. John McCain can't use the remote, either.

8:34 p.m. - KT - So I'm trying to figure out which of our six remotes will actually tune the TV. My 16-year-old son comes in and finds MSNBC and adds: "It's called technology, Mom." Oh.

8:31 p.m. - MG - I will say that tonight, I'll be looking out for the candidate whose soothing voice can put my 6-month-old to sleep. Because like all American voters, I want a candidate who cares about helping people like me. Also, it would be good if they could promise to cut taxes on live-blogging.

8:31 p.m. - JP - John King is having electoral fun with his big screen touch map. Do they have that as an app for the iPhone? Because I would be on that ALL DAY.

8:25 p.m. - KT - @JP: I'm drinking a Fess Parker chardonnay, buddy, because no one is more American than Daniel Boone.

8:24 p.m. - MG - I'm drinking Crystal Spring, because I'm a wuss!

8:21 p.m. - JP - The dual-tuner Tivo is my friend. One tuner is set to PBS, as a base, recording the debate. On the other, I flip.

But I want to know what we're all drinking! I'm drinking a Bonny Doon Syrah, because I am an elitist. But it's an American wine!

8:15 p.m. - MG - I like the squiggly lines! Is that OK?

8:02 p.m. - KT - Okay, guys, first let's figure out where we are watching this thing. CNN's squiggly lines confuse me, plus I'm willing to give home-court advantage, so I'm going to find some flavor of NBC to watch tonight. And you?

Plus, I'm going to copy my post from Swampland. I think the burden is on McCain tonight, and here's what I think he needs to accomplish.

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Reader Comments (532)

Posted by q | October 30, 2008 8:10 AM

riff raff! these people give me the creeps. riff raff. My heart hurts.350-030 / 350-001 / 646-363 / 646-204 / 70-293

Posted by lauryn123 | October 22, 2008 9:44 AM

thanks
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مقاطع مضحكة
مقاطع بلوتوث

Posted by dhomi | October 9, 2008 12:39 PM

مقاطع مضحكة
مقاطع بلوتوث

Posted by dhomi | October 9, 2008 12:38 PM

I missed you guys tonight... I had a soccer game and missed the debate! I'm watching it alone now...three hours after the fact. BOO!!!

Posted by canada_girl79 | October 8, 2008 12:29 AM

I love you guys...you are hysterical...I actually screamed at my tv at about the 9:45 mark, "I am not you F*****G FRIEND."

Posted by haynes | October 8, 2008 12:08 AM

I haven't seen anyone note the following yet:
Tom Brokaw thanked John McCain six times after his responses during the debate using two methods: "Sen. McCain, thank you very much" or "Thank you Sen. McCain."

Brokaw did not once thank Barack Obama for his responses.

Posted by tymepasses | October 7, 2008 11:39 PM

"I didn't think Obama was so great, but I did think McCain was pretty awful."

That's the best analysis I've heard yet.

Posted by stuart_zechman | October 7, 2008 11:29 PM

I want to applaud Senator McCain for once again taking a brave and principled anti-Holocaust stance. That's a real limb he's climbed on to, a couple of times now, and I hope he sticks with it no matter how much grief he takes for it.

On a similar note, that League of Democracies sounds better every time I hear it. The only trick will be convincing Aquaman, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern that we need them to work together and check their superhero egos at the door. But Senator McCain knows how to talk to superheroes, to get them to sit across the table from one another and make something positive happen for the American people, right?

Posted by FastEddie | October 7, 2008 11:27 PM

Obama highlights

in depth explanation of his health care plan and calling health care a right

His story about his Mom fighting with insurance people when she was dying of cancer

mentioning how many jobs alternative energy will bring

Actually prioritizing which of his plans would come first

Pointing out that McCain never talks about how HE is going to pay for HIS plans. Nuclear plants aint cheap

sorry I just have to stop

WTF DID THE GUY ON CNN SAY ABOUT OBAMA NOT WINNING BECAUSE HE IS BLACK???!!!

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 7, 2008 11:23 PM

Whoo-hoo! I just got a called for a phone-poll from the local NBC station about my impressions from the debate! I'm almost as influential as the dial people on CNN!

Posted by Anon | October 7, 2008 11:07 PM

KT here--

DFH: I didn't think Obama was so great, but I did think McCain was pretty awful.

Posted by Karen Tumulty | October 7, 2008 11:06 PM

Eleanor asks then - why can't you say? FDR would not have been elected with the visuals of a handicapped person. End of list. And so because McC has his handicaps he shoudl get a break? You figure Putin will be softer accordingly? Chavez? Kim il Sung (if that's his real name)?

I call fraud on you sir. You whine about Obama getting too much of a break but then call time out because McCain needs a rest stop.

Posted by Sherm Kent II | October 7, 2008 11:00 PM

Brazille just said they both bonked on the market drops and lacked linakge; would agree with that -- they should have ENERGY POLICY stamped on each other's foreheads for Debate 3.

Folks, and my friends, we are in a 3-5 year down cycle (we've been there before, in the early 60's, late 70's) BUT the ball is still in our court if we don't FREAK OUT, and then do what we do best: INNOVATE, in the private sector, with government GETTING OUT OF THE WAY.

That means LESS regulation of small businesses that are the true economic engine, not more and more taxes and legal beaver crap.

Anything less is 1933.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:55 PM

One thing I've noticed from Obama in both debates is that he's eliminated almost all of his vocal pauses. Seems like he has really been working on this and so some of the eloquence he's known for in his set speeches comes through when he's speaking off the cuff.

Posted by superterrificdelegate | October 7, 2008 10:54 PM

I have to concur. This was no mauling. This was polite biting on both sides. I think McC got the best end line but we're talking a couple tenths of a point. So overall - not much change.

And what the hell is up with pincushion boy commentating on CNN?

Posted by Sherm Kent II | October 7, 2008 10:53 PM

Gunny, you beat me to it. I just flipped over to MSNBC and heard Buchanan say that McCain won it and thought he has to watch on CNN next time.

Posted by ivb | October 7, 2008 10:48 PM

This was, I think, a mauling: a devastating and possibly electorally fatal debate for McCain

...

Oh good grape.

It was another tie, McCain perhaps stronger in the last 30 minutes.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:48 PM

was the presidency something that should have a handicapped sign hanging from the oval office window

...

Geez Eleanor, I can't say.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:46 PM

Breaking: Pat Buc.. McCain won the debate.

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:46 PM

KT, in other words it was a drwa.

Posted by dfhstill | October 7, 2008 10:45 PM

Chris Matthews makes the point that McCain wouldn't engage in the character assassination he's okayed for his VP to level. Why won't he cast these aspersions face-to-face?

Posted by time-blogger | October 7, 2008 10:44 PM

Sullivan:

This was, I think, a mauling: a devastating and possibly electorally fatal debate for McCain. Even on Russia, he sounded a little out of it. I've watched a lot of debates and participated in many. I love debate and was trained as a boy in the British system to be a debater. I debated dozens of times at Oxofrd. All I can say is that, simply on terms of substance, clarity, empathy, style and authority, this has not just been an Obama victory. It has been a wipe-out.It has been about as big a wipe-out as I can remember in a presidential debate. It reminds me of the 1992 Clinton-Perot-Bush debate. I don't really see how the McCain campaign survives this.

Posted by grape_crush | October 7, 2008 10:44 PM

CBS all up in the hillarious THAT ONE line.

Poor, poor Katie.

The news readers keep flailing in the wind...

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:42 PM

Jeff Greenfield called the "that one" remark the watercooler moment where people will discuss whether that was too demeaning

Posted by dgopalan | October 7, 2008 10:39 PM

THAT ONE.

Best line of the debate.

GO JOHN GO.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:39 PM

OK, I am so totally into the CNN lines and Obama really won. Made me think that the polls are really right. Oh my.

Posted by ivb | October 7, 2008 10:38 PM

TV blather is all about the McCain mortgage buy-up deal.

I need some numbers.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:37 PM

Not going to change much. Although I did think Michelle was about to kick Cindy's knees out there.

Posted by Sherm Kent II | October 7, 2008 10:36 PM

My memorable moment: Brokaw telling the future president of the United States, basically, to get the f--- out of his way.

Posted by Murdoc829 | October 7, 2008 10:36 PM

McCain didn't meet the expectations set for him in this debate being that this is supposed to be a style that suits him well.

Posted by dgopalan | October 7, 2008 10:36 PM

I have really messed up relationship with politics. Every time after I watch one of these debates I hate myself for doing so.

Posted by Curseword69 | October 7, 2008 10:36 PM

"Excuse me, you're standing in front of my script," as McCain runs away.

THAT was funny.

Posted by Lulu Lulu | October 7, 2008 10:36 PM

Flash Poll Results:

CUBS STILL SUCK.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:35 PM

I AM GOING TO REPEAT THIS ONE LAST TIME FOR OUR FRIENDS AT TIME.COM .....JOHN MCCAIN DID NOT LIST, IN ALL OF THE WARS THAT HE DID LIST, THE CURRENT IRAQ WAR AS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS GOOD JUDGEMENT. LOOK IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 7, 2008 10:35 PM

Game changer. NO@

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:35 PM

McCain goes POW!

I had to move on to drinking Listerine, 'cause there's not a drop of alcohol in the house...

Posted by grape_crush | October 7, 2008 10:34 PM

Oh gag me. We get it. You're a veteran. Enough already.

Posted by Beshka | October 7, 2008 10:34 PM

GREAT closing by McCain.

Brokaw's a ghost.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:34 PM

I'm just so tired of the blah, blah, blah

Posted by kimberly | October 7, 2008 10:34 PM

Man, don't tell me you know what its like when you are in a position where you can't answer the simple question as to how many homes you and your wife own

Posted by dgopalan | October 7, 2008 10:34 PM

were you a pow?
could you elaborate on that just this once?

Posted by imamavrick2 | October 7, 2008 10:34 PM

Wait -
were you in a war, john?

Posted by imamavrick2 | October 7, 2008 10:33 PM

Let's see if he can get in one more my friends before it is over

Posted by Ceylove79 | October 7, 2008 10:33 PM

OMG, KT's watching the debate with Rick Redfern!

Posted by billiecat | October 7, 2008 10:32 PM

Obama!

He's New!

Vote for new!

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:32 PM

Did I mishear the question, Obama?
Was it: Please give me your stump speech?

Posted by NucularOption | October 7, 2008 10:32 PM

Are we allowed to have a Zen question in this country.

Posted by Sherm Kent II | October 7, 2008 10:32 PM

"Sychronized swimming. A complete mystery to me."
Posted by Curseword69

You're ready to write for the Daily Show!

Posted by time-blogger | October 7, 2008 10:31 PM

"Mama scrimped by in HAWAII."

DRINK BONG WATER.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:31 PM

Could Brokaw be a wee bit less obvious that he is making up to the RNC for Keith and Chris?

Every time he got pissy about the time length was after Obama spoke.

1 time, McCain went too long for his 1 minute follow up, and Brokaw yelled at Obama about it.

Then the military guy saved for last. There is being fair, and there is being a tool. Brokaw was a bit of a tool.

McNasty still got stomped though.

Posted by trifecta | October 7, 2008 10:31 PM

Obama's up by 11% in NH. Has Brokaw been playing in the drinking game?

Posted by time-blogger | October 7, 2008 10:30 PM

McCain just gave Obama an opening to talk intelligently about the role of diplomacy.

Posted by ArtPepper | October 7, 2008 10:30 PM

"Sychronized swimming. A complete mystery to me."

Posted by Curseword69 | October 7, 2008 10:30 PM

Zen like.

HEMP BROWNIE.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:30 PM

Brokaw really IS just cutting off Obama

Posted by imamavrick2 | October 7, 2008 10:30 PM

That is the only time he probably has ever done that.

I just think that he just wants the title.

I'm scared that McCain will die and Palin will be president. ouch!!!!!

Don't get me wrong I don't want Biden either.

Posted by kimberly | October 7, 2008 10:30 PM

Are those the twins from The Shining. They didn't age well at all.

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 7, 2008 10:29 PM

Another tie.

Tie goes to the Nam vet.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:29 PM

Anyone remember the 2000 GOP primary town hall debates against Keyes and Bush. McCain was a lot more natural and human. He never blatantly kissed ass. His anger back then was genuine and you could feel it as being genuine.

Here is he's coming off as seething, cowering creepy old guy that is completely disingenuous.

What the hell happened?

Posted by dgopalan | October 7, 2008 10:29 PM

I can't possibly imagine that anybody but the most committed partisans believe that McCain is besting Obama in this debate.

Posted by stuart_zechman | October 7, 2008 10:29 PM

Also -

is anyone else a little tired of the word "evil?"
How old are we?

Everything is subjective.
I have family in cuba who love Castro.

Posted by imamavrick2 | October 7, 2008 10:28 PM

@JP: "Will there be a memorable moment from any one of the Presidential debates?"

No. Just the words "my friends" echoing in your nightmares.

Posted by grape_crush | October 7, 2008 10:27 PM

Here we go again. Obama wants to sit down without pre-conditions ... blah blah blah ... Ooo! Snap, yes, we're proud of your service now shut up and sit down Grandpa.

Posted by Beshka | October 7, 2008 10:27 PM

Game changer.

TOKE.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:27 PM

To much hitting of page down key makes live blogging no fun.

Posted by Curseword69 | October 7, 2008 10:27 PM

John McCain just cant help himself. He would have done much better with out the attacks

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 7, 2008 10:27 PM

@JP - Aside from the occasional zinger, so far not really. Mostly holding pace. Seems the externals are the drivers so far. But - 4 weeks to go. Where's my way-back machine when I need it.

Posted by Sherm Kent II | October 7, 2008 10:27 PM

...and if Iran wanted to jump off a bridge...so would the other coutries?

At least...that's what Iran's mom would say.

Posted by Corey | October 7, 2008 10:27 PM

"STINKING CORPSE!" Isn't there some way we could get PUTRID in there? C'mon!

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 7, 2008 10:26 PM

Somebody suggested we move on to the base ball questions. I agree. Without preconditions.

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:26 PM

Ugh Creepy McCreeperson.

Posted by dgopalan | October 7, 2008 10:26 PM

brokaw is tired of this s*#$, "Yes or No"

Posted by drjf1489 | October 7, 2008 10:26 PM

He REALLY thanks him.

Posted by NucularOption | October 7, 2008 10:25 PM

Yes, they tried to free the border slaves.

Russians hate that.

Posted by McCain4America Author Profile Page | October 7, 2008 10:23 PM

B*llsh*t. The Ossetians and Abkhazians have voted in numerous referendums for independence from Georgia. Tbilisi has been trying to force them into line by ethnic cleansing and murder. That's not an ally you can trust for anything.

Posted by basilbrush | October 7, 2008 10:25 PM

The MSM went ballistic after the Barack/Hillary debate moderated by George and Charlie.

I doubt Brokaw's bias toward McCain will incite them to much passion.

That said, McCain looks tired and mean

Btw, Cindy McCain said today that the Obama campaign was the meanest in history. I know we're supposed to stay away from spouses, unless you're Michelle Obama in which it's fair game to rip her to pieces in public, but isn't Cindy projecting herself into the campaign in an ugly way? Will the MSM ignore her statement?

Posted by Southern Bell | October 7, 2008 10:25 PM

Who the hell is named Terry Sherry. WTF.

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:25 PM

Yes or no question?

They actually both did OK on that stupid question.

Posted by ArtPepper | October 7, 2008 10:25 PM

Could we have a Cubs question again?

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:25 PM

@JP: "Um, is this thriving?"

Guess it's different when it's not an audience selected by the McCain campaign.

Posted by grape_crush | October 7, 2008 10:25 PM

John McCain is so powerful he can reignite the Cold War just by saying "yes".

Posted by Curseword69 | October 7, 2008 10:24 PM

Sounds to me like McCain is having trouble catching his breath. Scary. Gotta wonder what is hidden in those medical records that were so "fully disclosed." Sarah Palin for prez anyone? Anyone?

Posted by kilakiwi | October 7, 2008 10:24 PM

Kimberly, what about that whole "Obama won't recite the pledge of allegiance" thing? Did the video of him actually reciting the pledge of allegiance crash your computer?

Posted by time-blogger | October 7, 2008 10:24 PM

seriously people-
SERIOUSLY

Who needs all these debates?
Haven't they been saying the same things for the last TWO YEARS?
I do not get "undecided voters"
Pick up a paper.

Posted by imamavrick2 | October 7, 2008 10:24 PM

"Keeping all of you safe ..." - nice line, seriously. Talking to us. Protecting us. That's how you talk at a Town Hall forum.

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 7, 2008 10:23 PM

Didn't Georgia provoke Russia?

...

Yes, they tried to free the border slaves.

Russians hate that.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:23 PM

I would really have liked to see someone touch on how to deal with the Russians under conditions where their economy has a big hiccup.

Posted by Sherm Kent II | October 7, 2008 10:22 PM

Like our naked aggression into iraq john?

Posted by drjf1489 | October 7, 2008 10:22 PM

McCain just can't stop replaying the same tired jokes that he's been running on over the last 10 years. This pathetic. And he is flat wrong on Georgia - Tbilisi was far more aggressive than Moscow, and has been since 1991, when it tried a little ethnic cleansing in Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Posted by basilbrush | October 7, 2008 10:22 PM

"We're not going to have another cold war with Russia, except that Putin is a KGB agent."

That's not tact we can believe in!

Posted by BrendanB | October 7, 2008 10:21 PM

The KGB joke! A HA HA HA...

Is there anyone who's been watching McCain's stump speeches who can tell me if he's saying anything different here than in a rally?

Posted by grape_crush | October 7, 2008 10:21 PM

@Chaddog...

DO a find on my handle. I posted a link to a Zeiss projector McCain may have been talking about.

Posted by Corey | October 7, 2008 10:21 PM

McCain's secret plan to get Osama is reminding me of Dick Nixon's plan in 68 to end the vietnam war.

...

Works for me.

When does the bombing commence?

Maybe we should check with Wezzley Quark...

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:21 PM

15 minutes to go - not seeing a fumble here.

Posted by Sherm Kent II | October 7, 2008 10:21 PM

He defers to Petraeus on everything except the "victory" part. I'll vote for him, if he takes Katie Couric as VP.

Posted by Ceylove79 | October 7, 2008 10:21 PM

How does one show moral support for Georgia? Stand on the Russian border while they are conquered?

Posted by Curseword69 | October 7, 2008 10:20 PM

That shot on McCain where it frames his shoulders is his best one. If he stops moving out of the shot he can save himself.

He only seems confident discussing Russia or how he was right on Iraq, but hes good when hes running with those.

Posted by NucularOption | October 7, 2008 10:20 PM

"KT - McCain: "I'm not going to telegraph my punches." You mean, like having your campaign tell the papers this weekend that you are going to go negative, so you can change the subject from the economy?"

Zinnnnnnnng!

Posted by superterrificdelegate | October 7, 2008 10:20 PM

Didn't Georgia provoke Russia?

Posted by time-blogger | October 7, 2008 10:20 PM

KG and a B. Hmmm. Where have I heard that before?

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:20 PM

How can Putin get something in his sights with all those letters in his eyes?

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 7, 2008 10:20 PM

Again with the K G B line.

Posted by dgopalan | October 7, 2008 10:20 PM

"We're not going to have another Cold War with Russian"

Because my Veep will start a hot one!

Posted by ArtPepper | October 7, 2008 10:19 PM

Luckily sexy sarah is keeping her eye on them...

Posted by imamavrick2 | October 7, 2008 10:19 PM

This Petreaus guy sounds great, and McCain seems to really defer to him on anything militaristic. Can I vote for him?

Posted by Curseword69 | October 7, 2008 10:19 PM

"Honestly - why do we need a moderator?????

Let them debate!!!!! No moderators, no questioners....let's see them go Lincoln-Douglas style."

Agreed.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:19 PM

Yeah the surge worked so well, that's why we're still there spending $

Posted by Ceylove79 | October 7, 2008 10:18 PM

Okay if the General dies.
What's the plan?

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:18 PM

"We have to look in to these new horseless carriages I am hearing about."

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 7, 2008 10:18 PM

Is General Petraeus John McCain's messiah?

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 7, 2008 10:18 PM

I'm so waiting for the day when Johnny gets into office and fixes everything on Day 1 (hopefully it will be at 3am)...He knows how to do it, but he's keeping it to himself for 26 years....

Posted by Somewhere in Oregon | October 7, 2008 10:18 PM

McCain's secret plan to get Osama is reminding me of Dick Nixon's plan in 68 to end the vietnam war.

Posted by trifecta | October 7, 2008 10:18 PM

Brokaw - "If either of you become president, which one of you will"

All 3rd parties are screaming right now

Posted by yogi | October 7, 2008 10:17 PM

I will make them famous.

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:17 PM

bomb bomb bomb iran.... AHAHAHAH SOOOOO FUNNNNNNNNY!!!!

Posted by drjf1489 | October 7, 2008 10:17 PM

Objects we need to see after this debate:

1) The "aisle" McCain reaches across.
2) The projector at the Chicago (Adler?) Planetarium.
3) The "stick" we need to carry in Pakistan.
4) "That one."

Posted by Chaddogg | October 7, 2008 10:17 PM

After Obama takes out Bin Laden, does Ayers take over with Al Queda, or Martin Sheen?

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:16 PM

Wait -
McCain was in the military -
WHAT?!

Posted by imamavrick2 | October 7, 2008 10:16 PM

The telegraph.

Posted by jarais | October 7, 2008 10:16 PM

McCain knows how to get em. Just friggin chill people.

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:16 PM

17 my friends so far. Is that a record?

In a Washington Post profile, they noted that it was a verbal tic of his father. Admiral JS McCain JR said my friend in a sarcastic way though.

Posted by trifecta | October 7, 2008 10:16 PM

McCain: "I have Al Qaeda's names on this sheet of paper"

Posted by grape_crush | October 7, 2008 10:16 PM

Damn when McCain said he knows what to do in terms of finding bin Laden, the dials went down.

McCain just lost the commander in chief battle as well it seems

Posted by dgopalan | October 7, 2008 10:16 PM

kimberly, McCain doesn't wear a flag pin. Why does he hate America?

Posted by ivb | October 7, 2008 10:16 PM

He was joking when he sang "Bomb, bomb Iran" so it's OK. Whew!

Posted by superterrificdelegate | October 7, 2008 10:16 PM

McCain is expending an ENORMOUS amount of energy not killing Obama with his bare hands.

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 7, 2008 10:15 PM

If I hear "my friends" one more time ... let's limit "my friends" to follow ups please. Pretty quick we'll be hearing "I know you are, but what am I?"

Posted by Beshka | October 7, 2008 10:15 PM

Oh crap. McCain is about to beat Obama's physical ass. after that sh33t.

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:15 PM

Skippy thinks killing Bin Laden wins the war.

You heard it tonight, America.

POCKISTAN your burka.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:15 PM

Honestly - why do we need a moderator?????

Let them debate!!!!! No moderators, no questioners....let's see them go Lincoln-Douglas style.

If I had a billion dollars, I'd put up $50 million of it to charity....on the condition both candidates engaged in a Lincoln-Douglas debate every 4 years.

Posted by Chaddogg | October 7, 2008 10:15 PM

"Somber" - "Bomb Iran" OH SNAP!

Posted by ArtPepper | October 7, 2008 10:14 PM

I was just about to say that this debate has lost of lot is earlier energy but this followup scuffle might just re-energize the debate

Posted by dgopalan | October 7, 2008 10:14 PM

Does that smirk ever go away?

Posted by Ceylove79 | October 7, 2008 10:14 PM

The follow up thing calls to mind to children arguing over a lollipop.

Posted by Curseword69 | October 7, 2008 10:14 PM

Brokaw! Retreating like that is unpatriotic!

Posted by NucularOption | October 7, 2008 10:13 PM

WHAT? McCain says we ought to work with Pakistan and go into the NWFP and engage the bad guys? With who? The boy scouts? I don't think we've called them up yet.

Posted by Sherm Kent II | October 7, 2008 10:13 PM

Walking Tall.

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:13 PM

M4A, when are you going to withdraw from A*sholeistan? You've been spending a lot of blood and treasure there - for nothing!

Posted by basilbrush | October 7, 2008 10:13 PM

too bad Swamplanders will be here, ruining the civilized discourse of Tuned-Inlanders.

Smug much?

Posted by TomT | October 7, 2008 10:12 PM

Ooo, numbers dropped when Obama said we should kill Osama bin Laden.

Hey, McCain, didn't you just say Reagan was your hero?! So which is it, TR or Reagan? Pick a side! We're at war!

Posted by Lulu Lulu | October 7, 2008 10:12 PM

Grandpa?

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:12 PM

Is there a Lieberman Whispering Station anywhere? I think McCain needs one.

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 7, 2008 10:12 PM

Kimberly, you can see Obama recite the pledge of allegiance at http://tinyurl.com/3rlf6h.

Posted by time-blogger | October 7, 2008 10:12 PM

my hero was one of those Roosevelt boys, or Reagan. Forgot who I am pandering to.

My friends.

Posted by trifecta | October 7, 2008 10:12 PM

@James Poniewozik -- McCain is standing in every frame because Zelig HIMSELF told him to do so, many many years ago....Zelig was "my friend" to McCain.

Posted by Chaddogg | October 7, 2008 10:12 PM

Mc's right on Pakistan.

Obama clueless here.

Totally.

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:11 PM

There must not be a teleprompter tonight.

Posted by Ceylove79 | October 7, 2008 10:11 PM

Okay. I can't take any more. I'm playing the race card. What's with all the women wearing glasses?

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:11 PM

I thought his hero was Ronald Reagan

Posted by shara says | October 7, 2008 10:11 PM

Enough with "My Friends" already - I am not John McCain's "friend".

Posted by PoppyJacks | October 7, 2008 10:11 PM

It may be accurate, but I don't like how Obama says Pakistan ("PA-KEY-STAN")....doesn't play well with the Joe Sixpack inside me...

Posted by Chaddogg | October 7, 2008 10:10 PM

Yo, Boma:

When do we withdraw from PHILADELPHIA and DETROIT?

We're losing those wars, and the people there don't really want us there anyway...

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:10 PM

"Marty Feldman's daughter behind questioner Katie"

Totally noticed that, didn't want to go there, thanks for doing it so I didn't have to...

Posted by grape_crush | October 7, 2008 10:10 PM

All the people asking questions seem to have very flat affects. The room needs a prozac defogger.

Posted by superterrificdelegate | October 7, 2008 10:09 PM

McCain Doctrine: "We'll act when we can. I just have to decide who's good and who's evil. Iran was evil, so I supported our funding Saddam. Saddam was evil, so I supported our invading Iraq. Obama doesn't understand national security."

Posted by Elvis Elvisberg | October 7, 2008 10:09 PM

WOW I am so blessed McCain has finally got through to the Americans and has been able to show us how dumb Obama really is.

Obama can't stop talking in circles buddy you should have practiced a little more.

GO McCain!!!!!!

Posted by Shelley95 | October 7, 2008 10:09 PM

Was it me or was there relief in Brokaw's voice that no one interrupted him and he could move on to the next question.

Posted by Sherm Kent II | October 7, 2008 10:09 PM

Whoa. Marty Feldman's daughter behind questioner Katie.

Posted by pourmecoffee | October 7, 2008 10:09 PM

Cambodia, right on!

Posted by McCain4America | October 7, 2008 10:09 PM

I cannot take another jingoistic comment from mccain.
this is NOT the greatest nation that ever existed.
we are self-centered flag waving bible thumpers.
we have no real understanding or even curiosity for other cultures because we have been raised to believe that we are the Only Nation.
the Only Culture. spreading "democracy' and "freedom" throughout the world.

Posted by imamavrick2 | October 7, 2008 10:08 PM

HANOI HILTON ring any bells?

Cut the ONLY VET IN THIS CIRCUS some slack for cripes sakes.

I dont think anyone in America has missed the fact that McCain is a POW. But the effects of his time there combine with his advanced age to make him look very jerky. Everyone sees it. It doesnt matter why hes like that, just like it doesnt matter that there is segment of the US that sees Obama as a black man and because of that unqualified. You can judge their records, or policy positions and vote on that, but these debates dont change minds because of their policy content. Prez Debates change minds because of peoples perception of them.

Posted by NucularOption | October 7, 2008 10:08 PM

Have you ever seen him say the pledge or put his hand over his heart, showing his divotion.

I'm not for either one but I think that the "President" should respect and love the country the he or she represents!

Posted by kimberly | October 7, 2008 10:08 PM

Okay. None of what McCain said made any sense.

Posted by GySgt213 | October 7, 2008 10:08 PM

Ahhh, Surge again my friends. Please call 911.

WE wouldn't be there in the first place if Obama had been President instead of the neo-con cabal.

Posted by champion | October 7, 2008 10:08 PM

McCain just said they need a cool hand? and thinks that he is that cool hand? Damn, man must have forgotten all those times he's used profanities on the senate floor, brushed/nearly hit a woman in a wheel chair, quite possibly called his wife a "c*unt"

Posted by dgopalan | October 7, 2008 10:08 PM